No, no I do not. If I did, would you then agree that a SWAT team should be dispatched to my house tonight?

Do you see anything in the law stating that they must stop and display one before entry?

If there was a felony warrant out for your arrest, yes.

I don't think anyone blames the individuals directly involved in this (except those of you who blame the lady for panicking) but doesn't it seem like the price that's paid for the cops to use these "no knock" entries is too high? Sure, they gain extra evidence if the suspect may have otherwise destroyed it, but I don't see how it's worth people dying like this.

She pulled a gun on people previously - what makes you think she wouldn't have done the same if they politely knocked and waited outside?

On March 23, 2006, 12 officers conduct a 1:30 am no-knock drug raid on a house in Macon, Georgia. During the raid, Dep. Whitehead is shot and killed by residents Antron Dawayne Fair and Damon Antwon.

Bibb County Sheriff Jerry Modena told the Macon Telegraph that once the suspects realized the raiding party was law enforcement and not gang members, they surrendered immediately.

Nevertheless, prosecutors charged five of the residents with murder, including one who wasn't in the building at the time. The two who actually fired weapons during the raid face the death penalty.

That's super. You've sure poked holes in this specific case with your super-police powers.

Here's another example. Go ahead. Justify this.


In Georgia it is legal to shoot and kill an intruder who is attacking you with firearms. They still got murder charges even though this was a no-knock warrant. The cops and the judges are protecting their own. Hell, a guy who wasn't even at the home invasion ended up being charged with murder. How can you justify this, JLee?

Oh yeah. One of those three people dialled 911 to get help from the police during what they thought was the home invasion. During the trials the police dismissed it as a cover-up. No drugs were found in the house FYI.

This officer was killed because they broke into the house at 1:30 AM. This officer was killed because his superiors believe in a law enforcement tactic that does not work, that only results in innocent people being killed.

You can try to poke holes in all of these examples all you want. I know I'm probably not going to convince you that you're wrong, but I'm fairly certain you'll run out of answers before I run out of examples. The flagrant misuse of SWAT teams is pandemic across the United States, and every day someone - an innocent civilian or a police officer - is getting killed because of it. And every time this happens your state loses tens of millions of dollars.

Nice attempt at changing the subject. I was under the impression we were discussing this case specifically. I fail to see where I stated that the prolific use of no-knock warrants is a good idea. However, you seem unable to respond to the case in question and have to bring in other examples from other states. Nice going, pal.

I dont see why you feel the need to constantly make it seem like Americans are a bunch of gunslinging cowboys ready to do a duel in the middle of the road.

Im sorry if i "offended" you in any way, but I hardly think you're being even remotely respectful when you consistently refer to my country as less civilized.

No hard feelings. But again, I'm not doing that. Point out where I did.

It's just what you're reading into my words.

In Georgia it is legal to shoot and kill an intruder who is attacking you with firearms. They still got murder charges even though this was a no-knock warrant. The cops and the judges are protecting their own. Hell, a guy who wasn't even at the home invasion ended up being charged with murder. How can you justify this, JLee?

You're making assumptions so that the story fits your position again.

Nice attempt at changing the subject. I was under the impression we were discussing this case specifically.

Um.

No I'm not.

Are you actually reading what I'm saying or are you just postcount++ing again?

Now if the cops didn't annouce themselves, which there is no indication that they did or didn't, they made the problem for themselves.

Rather, he's reading between the lines. The air of "My country is better than yours" certainly seeps through.

I had thought I had made myself perfectly clear, but apparently you have yet to comprehend this.

Cocky + condescending attitudes don't fly too well with me, btw..try to be a little polite?

You've assumed that the police are not announcing themselves in every one of the stories you have provided. You don't know that. There is no information in any of the stories that you posted as to whether the police identified themselves or not. Your entire position completely flushed down the toilet if they did identify themselves

January 19, 2001—AL



On January 19, 2001, a paramilitary police force from Russellville and Franklin County, Alabama raids the home of Sandra Hillman and her daughter Marquita. Agents with a no-knock warrant kick down the door to Hillman's apartment and hold the two women handcuffed and at gunpoint while they conduct a search. Police never identify themselves, even after realizing they have the wrong address.

Hillman would make two subsequent trips to an emergency room for heart problems related to the raid. The two women filed suit against the city and the county in June 2001.

Source:

"Mother, daughter sue city, county for mistaken raid," Associated Press, June 28, 2001.

December 16, 1996—NM



On December 16, 1996, a SWAT team in black balaclavas raid a rental property owned by 69-year-old Ralph Garrison. Police are acting on a tip that the property contains equipment being used by methamphetamine addicts to print counterfeit checks and currency. They conduct the 6 am raid with the aid of a helicopter from U.S. Customs and with two K-9 units.

As the raid commences, Garrison confronts the police, and asks who they are, and why they're on his property. Raiding officers would later claim they told Garrison they were police, and that they were executing a warrant.

Just how clear they were is in dispute, as evidenced by Garrison's actions. After his initial inquiry, Garrison immediately returns to his home to call 911. He asks the dispatcher to send police, because, he says, vandals with "axes and all kinds of stuff" are breaking into his rental property. After some time passes, Garrison tells the dispatcher, "I've got my gun. I'll shoot the son of a *****."

According to raiding officers, Garrison then emerges from his house with a gun, where three officers open fire on him with AR-15 assault rifles. They handcuff Garrison after shooting him, then search his home. He dies at the scene. Police also shoot and kill Garrison's dog, a 14-year old chow, and apprehendhis wife, 69-year old Molly Garrison. Mrs. Garrison later said police didn't remove their hoods or identify themselves until after the raid. Police make no arrests in connection with the raid.

In 1999, a federal court dismissed the Garrison estate's lawsuit against the police department, holding that the officers had qualified immunity, a law that protects police from civil damages in any lawsuit where it is determined that they don't clearly violate any established constitutional protections.

Sources:

Jessie Milligan, "Judge dismisses most of lawsuit in SWAT death," Albuquerque Tribune, March 18, 1999, p. A3.

Guillermo Contreras, "U.S. Supreme Court Denies APD Shooting Suit Appeal," Albuquerque Journal, May 3, 2001, p. D2.

May 7, 1988—VA



In May 1988, police raid a home in Winchester, Virginia, where John Rickman is doing some construction. Police don't identify themselves before storming the home, striking and kicking Rickman, and putting a gun to his head. Rickman, who had nothing to do with the raid, subsequently filed a $2.5 million lawsuit.

Source:

John Dentinger, "Narc, narc; diary of police raids on the wrong house," Playboy, April 1990, p. 49.

On October 4, 2000 at about 10 p.m., police in Lebanon, Tennessee raid the home of 64-year-old John Adams on a drug warrant. In what Lebanon Police Chief Billy Weeks would later say was a "severe, costly mistake," police indentify the wrong house.

According to Adams' wife, police don't identify themselves after knocking on the couple's door. When she refuses to let them in, they break down the door, and handcuff her. Adams meets the police in another room with a sawed-off shotgun. Police open fire, and shoot Adams dead.

One officer would later be fired after the incident, and several others suspended, but no criminal charges would ever come of the raid. Adams' widow eventually won a $400,000 settlement from the city.

Sources:

Warren Duzak, "Innocent man dies in police blunder," Tennessean, October 6, 2000.

Ashley Fantz, "Fatal Mistake," Salon, October 19, 2000

Andy Humbles, "Wilson DA prefers simplicity to theatrics," Tennessean, March 15, 2004, p. B1.

Oh, and saying that they were no knock warrants does not mean that there was no announcement of police presence or identification as police officers. It means they don't knock on the door and wait for the person to answer.

I agree with exactly one part of this post: that, yes, my argument would be shot down had the police identified themselves.

Fortunately - for me, and not for the people who were shot because they thought the police were criminals - I'm right and the police did not identify themselves.

Except for the 800th time we are ignoring the fact that it's the guy in charge who is supposed to make sure this doesn't happen. SWAT teams are trained to subdue armed victims ASAP. The decision weather this tactic is to be used takes place before the SWAT team enters the building.

Again, blaming the SWAT team is like blaming a firing squad for executing someone who turned out to be innocent.

It's not a fight, it's a discussion. I think it's an informative discussion for all sides...so where's the harm?

On a totally unrelated note, Firefox 2.0 features spell checking.

Oh wait, that doesn't work if your typos are actually existing words.

Sounds like you've realized you're not getting anywhere..

On a totally unrelated note, Firefox 2.0 features spell checking.

Oh wait, that doesn't work if your typos are actually existing words.

They whole unannounced entry issue goes way beyond the SWAT team. They just do what their told. And the issue of weather its moral to participate in SWAT if these are the tactics used has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

They whole unannounced entry issue goes way beyond the SWAT team. They just do what their told. And the issue of weather its moral to participate in SWAT if these are the tactics used has nothing to do with the issue at hand.