I hope the f***ers get court martialed and shot for desertion and insubordination.

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Empty.

I don't think they'll get shot.
They're going on the premise that they believe the war is illegal and that in their contract with the government it states that they will do what they are told as long as it's legal. :/

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Pissed off?

I lost some patience catching up on the first page so I apologize in advance if I cover something that has already been stated.

The issue here has nothing to do with wether the war is justified or not. It has nothing to do with why these cowards joined. It has to do with the fact that they have not only deserted but are being harbored by a (supposed) ally (not in the war, of course). Canada deserves severe sanctions if it harbors American criminals and those soldiers ARE criminals. They have broken the law by deserting.

If those scumbags were not cowards they would have stood for their beliefs here and the military would have "chaptered" them out. That's basically military (Army, anyway) lingo for processing someone out of the service. They would have been treated fairly and probably released from the service for being conscientious objectors. But instead of taking the moral and dificult way to face their situations they abandon not only the service but the country they have sworn an oath to.

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Have you forgotten ...

To slightly alter the topic, I very much doubt Canada will allow these men refugee status. Canada has never in its history given refugee status to an American citizen, and I doubt they'll start now. America is not some brutal dictatorship, no matter what some people may hyperbolically claim. Canada has no business meddling in the internal legal affairs of her neighbors.

And in an effort to salvage my wounded pride:


Just how exactly was my analogy flawed? Speeding is illegal. Desertion is illegal. If you break the law, you suffer the consequences. If you think the law is immoral, then go through the proper channels that are in place to try and get it changed. If people start disobeying laws because they disagree with them for whatever reason, you have nothing left but anarchy. And I don't think anybody wants that.


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Krig have signature.
Krig smash.

I agree totally, these pussies deserve to be beaten with a spiked club. (Sorry for the harshness)

[This message has been edited by -Monoxide- (edited July 09, 2004).]

If I had as much of a passion for diagreeing with the war as they do... i'd be 100% behind them.

If I signed up for the army, but got sent into a war which to me, seemed totally unethical and pointless, i'd want out.

Thats just some empathy though, I still don't care.

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Drugs & Stupidity, Tons of it.

Sanctions. SANCTIONS? I think these soldiers should face the music (uh, nobody made you join the army, guys), but sanctions would be the beginning of the end for US-Canada relations. Fortunately, I think even the Bush administration has a little more sense than that, but Jesus...sanctions are what we do to evil dictators, not friendly nations.

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"Look at me! I'm Tracer! BLAHBLAHBLAH!"

-MBeggar

If Canada harbors American criminals then they deserve severe repricussions. It's that simple. Besides, it's not like Canada is vitally important to us. They don't support us, or rarely do, and are a gateway for terrorist entrance to the US do to their lax security. Hell, the only good thing I can think of coming out of Canada are the American muscle cars Camaro and Trans Am. How Ironic!

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Have you forgotten ...

And ATi. And I believe AMD. And a lot of gaming companies. Oh and there's the agriculture. Let's see...electronics...agriculture...a bit of industry... It's enough to hurt us.

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There is no signature

We would hurt them far more than they could hurt us. The only real problem I have with that scenario is the further hardship that Canadian citizens would have to endure. By that, I mean the ones that are actually working to produce things, not the ones that simply sponge off the socialistic system there. Unfortunately, the real producers would be the ones most harmed.

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Have you forgotten ...

Yeah don't forget a whole lot of electricity powering the north west, lumbers and countless other construction materials... Wookie, you've proven your ignorance on several occasions before, but I think you've just out-done yourself. Congrats!

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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

Yeah. doesn't a california power crisis ring a bell to you?

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Wake up, rise and shine, Gotta take another pint, Dig heads and watch out for the night.

The California power crisis wasn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be. I've lived here for nearly two decades, and there have been few problems. Some cities had problems, but nothing major.

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Empty.

Yeah. but consider the fact that we have several hundred terawatts just in northern quebec. Most of which are sold to america.

Just some food for you to gnaw on....

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Wake up, rise and shine, Gotta take another pint, Dig heads and watch out for the night.

I'm open minded, Flexor. You prove you're ignorance to me when you make statements like that. It's fine if you disagree with my opinions but you cannot cite anything that I've said to "prove my ignorance".

I lived in California during it's "energy crisis". The crisis has only to do with the fact that those states are unwilling to generate their own power but they are certainly willing to blame everyone else except themselves for the problems.

Besides, I said severe sanctions. I never said a total boycott. Of course we may need certain things from other countries.

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Have you forgotten ...

Jesus Christ, Wookie. Jesus. Freaking. Christ. Your attitude is the sole reason for all of the America bashing that goes on in Western nations. The idea that there can be zero compromise - it boggles the mind.



...huh? Where did that come from?

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"Look at me! I'm Tracer! BLAHBLAHBLAH!"

-MBeggar

Darn, Flexor, I couldn't help but go back to it. I'm ignorant for wanting to hold a country accountable if they do not return American fugitives to us? Oh, and after allowing their media to flaunt the situation in our face?

You are remarkable.

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Have you forgotten ...

You're ignorant because you consistantly see situations as though they can have only one "right" outcome. At least you're in the military - should keep you occupied.

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"Look at me! I'm Tracer! BLAHBLAHBLAH!"

-MBeggar

Ha, firing my own bullets back at me? Either you need to come up with a more intelligent defense or you need to pick up a dictionary and read the definition of ignorance. While you're at it, you might want to educate yourself regarding the billion-dollar trades between canada and the US. Canada is america's #1 trading partner, and vice versa.

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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

Seriously.

I'd love to see what would happen if Alberta cut off power to California. Really, I would. I think it would be absolutely hilarious.

Wookie--you're 20 feet deep and going deeper with every word. I'd suggest you just admit you're highly, highly wrong, maybe more. Man, what is it with Americans these days. "WE R TEH BEST NO LOSERS WILL LAME US WE WILL BE TEH PWNERS OF ALL NATIONS U MESS WITH US WE ROK U OMG"

Makes me wish I was Canadian almost. But then again, we have NewEgg...

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There is no signature

Okay, this statement alone proves you have no clue how the system works. Where exactly do you think the money that writes your check comes from? That's right genius, tax payers. All government, military, and civil servants are payed with tax payer dollars. Translation? THEY ALL WORK FOR THE TAX PAYER! Which means, if the tax payers don't want to have the military off in a war, SPENDING (wasting) THEY'RE HARD EARNED TAX PAYER DOLLARS, than they should not be there PERIOD, END OF CONVERSATION. Alas, this goes back to my corrupt politician point in which you can feel free to talk to any economist about.

As for those that said the point that the war is justified or not has no bearing in this, your failing to realize that by being there, the military (government) ARE FORCING THEM TO DO SOMETHING MORALLY OR ETHICALLY WRONG (or both).

Wow, caps lock is fun...not

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"At last, we have come to find the truth to our souls. Though, the truth is not what we expected. I now fear my own soul."

In your contrat with the government there is a statement that the individual shal do what the government tells them too as long as it's legal. That's their supposed way out. Canadian immigration and lawyers have to look at this seriously. There are millions of people, including millions of Americans in that selfish capatalist country (i had to throw that in there 'cause it's the opposite of socialist ), that believe what the US did and is doing, is illegal.
The point is, they have a real case. A case that not only many socialist and other capitalist country's are willing to hear, but a case that millions of US citizens are willing to hear because they agree with them.

Let's see what the allegations and verdicts are before we start building a great wall made of igloos on our side and howitzers on your side.

If 50% (I believe it's more) of the worlds countries and population feel that the attack on Iraq was illegal, these soldiers must be heard. Just as Sadaam gets three squares a day until and during his trial.

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Pissed off?

(please delete this. Posted wrong message, sorry)

[This message has been edited by Recusant (edited July 10, 2004).]

PLEASE. You have GOT to be joking. Do you have any idea how many resources the US gets from Canada? Water? Oil? Electricity? Meat? Wheat? The list goes on... Why is it so hard to accept that the US is dependant on Canada just like Canada is dependant on the US? Canada IS absolutely vital to the US.

Yeah, I was being sarcastic however we could easily crush them with our economic might and then wait for them to come crawling back. muahahahaha

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Have you forgotten ...

You wouldn't have any economic might without canada.

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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

Your entire side of the debate should not comprise sarcasm.

I would handle this just like all the other cases like this have been handled: Don't do anything against the country the person fled to just because they won't hand them over, but have it known if the person ever comes into US territory (this includes embassies) again, they will be arrested and tried for treason which is punishable by death. In essence, it's an exile.

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Kieran: The reason I put a link to it is because she is in underwear and I know the admins are touchy on that.
Yecti: Jaiph will touch himself for hours if he so much as smells a woman's underwear

[This message has been edited by Kieran Horn (edited July 10, 2004).]

I doubt that there was a real power crisis, but rather an artificially created one. Enron and some other companies cut supplies and spiked up prices to make a profit. There are indider recodings that have been released that have enron people saying how they planned to artificially inflate prices.

I'm all in favor of letting them rot in prison until they turn to dust.



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The University of North Carolina has finally found a network server that, although missing for four years, hasn't missed a packet in all that time. Try as they might, university administrators couldn't find the server. Working with Novell Inc., IT workers tracked it down by meticulously following cable until they literally ran into a wall. The server had been mistakenly sealed behind drywall by maintenance workers.

Yeah, but that's not how the system works. The tax payers elect officials to make decisions on how tax dollars should be spent. And right now, the majority of those elected officials are passing bills to fund the war in Iraq.

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

I dont care what becomes of those soldiers. As far as I'm concerned, they never were US soldiers. Never truly Amercain, either... not if they won't do the job. They obviously signed up for the paycheck, not the cause.

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"halucid is not really intelligent but is simply a better simulator of human conversation." Googlism

...how easy life would be... if only it came with a consistancy checker.
Fabricator of Neurotic for MLP4

^ The symbol of ignorance in America...how sad.



No kidding, where have you been? I've covered that point already. Somethings got to give. It's time for Americans to wake up and push for better checks and balances in this country.

But, alas, this problem of the people not having enough power to make such changes was forseen and has mostly fell on deaf ears since as early as 1787.

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"At last, we have come to find the truth to our souls. Though, the truth is not what we expected. I now fear my own soul."

[This message has been edited by CaptBewil (edited July 11, 2004).]