Warning: contains a few spoilers.

1) Why was Faramir's life "forfeit" for letting the hobbits go? And why wasnt he killed because of it? Was it just a metaphor?

2) If the Witch King can be killed by no man, why then did a stab in the face seem to do the job?

3) Where did the ship at the end of ROTK take Frodo and the others?

4) What the heck happened to Saruman? I only saw the movie once, but Treebeard said he was up in his tower, and Gandalf tells Treebeard to keep watch on him? It would be nice to know what happened to him...

------------------
"Guns don't kill people, I kill people."

1. Faramir never captures the hobbits and takes them to Osgiliath. That's all non-book stuff.

2. The blade that Merry carried was from the Men of Westerness that they found in the Barrow Downs. It is with only this blade can a Nazgul be harmed or destroyed. Westerness is the isle of Numenor that was sank by the Valar because of their last king (Ar-Pharazon) assailed Valinor after being corrupted by Sauron to do so.

3. The place they went to was Valinor a.k.a. the Grey Havens. It is where the Elves go when the leave Middle-earth. The Valar made this island.

------------------
<scribbly handwriting barely resembling name>

[This message has been edited by Gandalf1120 (edited December 22, 2003).]

1) he was supposed to kill anyone/thing that was unauthorized to be in the area, and frodo, sam and gollum were not authorized (or maybe I remember totally wrong)

2) it was actually Meryy's stab, then Eowyn and it wasn't the sword itself, but uhh...crap I need to get my book out again...i tihnk something about her daing to face him and stuff...again, possibly totally wrong

3) To the west, out of Middle Earth, where all the elves were going, [oh yeah, the Grey Havens]

4) the movie didn't show but he actually got released by Treebeard and went to the Shire and pretty much screwed the whole place up. when frodo, sam, merry and pippin came back they had to raise the Shire to arms and they killed him. it wasn't in the movie.

------------------
If there is a 50% chance that you are going to be right, there is a 90% chance that you will choose the wrong one ~SithNazgul, the 50-50-90 rule

[This message has been edited by sugarless5 (edited December 22, 2003).]

1) Why was Faramir's life "forfeit" for letting the hobbits go? And why wasnt he killed because of it? Was it just a metaphor? - no YOUR a metaphor *SCORE!*

2) If the Witch King can be killed by no man, why then did a stab in the face seem to do the job? Because she is no man, she is a WOOO-MAN..even though in the books it was just merry who killed him.

3) Where did the ship at the end of ROTK take Frodo and the others? Off to Never Never land

4) What the heck happened to Saruman? I only saw the movie once, but Treebeard said he was up in his tower, and Gandalf tells Treebeard to keep watch on him? It would be nice to know what happened to him...

*BIG SPOILER*
*BIG SPOILER*
*BIG SPOILER*

Treebeard just watches him in the tower..but at one point he ends up escaping and going to the Shire to cause trouble.. he then later trips and impales himself...sucky way to die eh?

P.S. I lied..I read the books.



------------------
Retsam of Rod-Nog (This IS[/b] SAJN_Master)

1) Don't remember from the books, but in the movie I think it's a metaphore for his father hating him more...
2) Merry's magic sword (that he got from the barrow-wights in the FOTR book, not in the movie) weakens the witch-king I think, allowing Eowyn to finish him off.
3) They went to the Grey Havens, a place where the immortals party.
4) In the books, Gandalf returns to Isenguard and breaks Saruman's staff, effectively destroying what little power Saruman still had. He escapes somehow from the tower and when the hobbits return to the Shire they have to drive him away because he is destroying the place.

Hope that helps

EDIT: Well, since I was typing, all your questions were answered! However, Saruman is killed by Wormtounge in the Shire when Wormtounge turns against him. Then Wormtounge is shot by Hobbits.

[This message has been edited by Evil_Tofu (edited December 22, 2003).]

I thought he got impaled by a rock or something?...anyways just wait for the extended edition to come out..I need to read the bookz again.. I ordered the 7 book set online..but it has yet to come in... and I am to lazy to find my older copies.

------------------
Retsam of Rod-Nog (This IS[/b] SAJN_Master)

[This message has been edited by Rod-Nog (edited December 22, 2003).]

1) Faramir's life was "forfeit" because the law called for any captives to be killed or taken to Minas Tirith. He let them go, thus breaking the law, but by that time, Mordor was taking over Osgiliath, and all anyone really cared about was saviing their own necks.

2) Eowyn killed the witch king, and as she stated in the movie, she was no man (male).

3) The ship took them to Valinor, I believe, beyond the sea. The elves were leaving Middle-Earth to the rule of men. When the elves depart, they take the ships in the gray haven's to the "undying lands."

4) Saruman's power was broken when his armies fell, and he was no longer Saruman the white. Gandalf actually commands him to surrender his staff in the book, and I believe this will happen in the Extended Edition DVD.

------------------
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

OK that whole "Eowyn wasn't a man, so she could kill him" thing... Im not buyin it. Now Merry's blade.. wasn't that given to him by Galadriel, which was shown in the FOTR EE (which I also only saw once...) I never caught what those particular elves were called. The Barrow-wights were they?

------------------
"Guns don't kill people, I kill people."

You should buy it. It's a completely legible explaination for someone who hasnt read the book.

------------------
There are two asses in Massassi... and I'm one of them.
The Matrix Unplugged|The Valley of the Jedi Tower|Smaug's Lair

Merry, Sam, Pippin, and I think also Frodo recovered knives during their trek through the Barrow Downs. That whole part of the book was omitted. The hobbits were held in place until Tom Bombadil came and freed them from the Barrow wight. It is with these knives could the Ringwraith be harmed. I don't know why off of the top of my head right now. But they were fashioned by the Men of Numenor (the Dunedain, Aragorn's a descendant).

------------------
<scribbly handwriting barely resembling name>

Faramir's life was "forfiet" because he didn't bring the ring back to Gondor. Dethenor wasn't too happy with that.

The RotK scenes that dealt with Saruman were cut out of the movie but will be on the extended DVD. It'll be different than the book because "The Scouring of the Shire" chapter wasn't filmed

------------------
I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

Bilbo and Frodo (and later Sam, too) were coming along, because they have been ring-bearers and would not find any healing in Middle-Earth.

------------------
Sorry for the lousy English

Well, whether you 'buy it' or not, it's how it is...The curse was that no man could kill him.

This is no joke or sarcasm, I swear

What actually happened to Sauramon, was that, there was a contract dispute between McKlellan (I think that's the actor) and the producers, so, Jackson cut all his parts and never made mention of him, There is going to be a scene in the extended edition where he gets impaled on a spike however



------------------
Happy "Diseased" dud: You said I'd be like this guy. Boycotting everything..
Happy "Diseased" dud: ted kazcnisky. That's who it was.
Happy "Diseased" dud: Wait, That's the unibomer.
Happy "Diseased" dud: Wrong guy.

You really should read the books some day.

So many things wrong but I have the flu so I'll correct one then go to sleep. I'd have a lot of asterisks and the word spoiler in capital letters, but if you didn't want spoilers you wouldn't have seen the movies. There's your warning, k?

4. When the hobbits return to the Shire, they eventually find out that Lotho has taken control and further that someone named Sharkie has taken control from him and is generally making a mess of the place. After a miniature hobbit revolution, they defeat the mercenaries who were brought in to police the Shire and go to Bag End. It's a shambles but there's no Sharkie or anyone else to be found. Sharkie emerges from a shack outside and approaches the hobbits. Sharkie is of course Saruman and what remains of the pathetic Wormtongue is with him. After gloating about his final small revenge over the hobbits, Saruman is told by Frodo to leave. He starts to go but while passing Frodo he draws a small dagger and tries to stab him. Still wearing the mithril shirt, Frodo is unharmed. The other hobbits now want to kill him even more but Frodo stops them. Amazed, respectful but still hateful, Saruman says he finally will leave and orders Wormtongue to follow him. He insults Wormtongue for the last time, Wormtongue snaps, jumps on Saruman's back and slits his throat. Saruman's corpse turns into a grey amorphous cloud, swirls and disperses [if you've seen the horrid film adaptation of Queen of the Damned, I imagine it to be really similar to Akasha's death in that]. Wormtongue starts to run off down the road but the hobbits put a dozen arrows in his back before Frodo can stop them.

Now I need to sleep.

[Edit] Oh and how Saruman left Isengard... Treebeard came to him every day and talked longwindedly, telling him the news of the success of the free races in long, long, long Ent fashion until he felt Saruman was even more thoroughly broken. He never escaped Isengard unless you argue, as Gandalf did, that by the virtue of his voice he deceived Treebeard into letting him out. Treebeard could never bear to keep a live thing caged forever and Saruman may have exploited this "weakness." I believe that Treebeard was too wise to be deceived by the voice of Saruman and it was his wisdom also that made him eventually release him once he was too weak to cause any irreversible evil on his own. So I think it was a release and not an escape. IMO of course. [/Edit]

[This message has been edited by Masq (edited December 23, 2003).]

Read the books, then watch the Extended Editions. That's the true LotR experience, and you'll appreciate the movies a whole lot more after reading the books

Oh, and Faramir's life is effectively 'forfiet' in the book, Denethor sends him on what he presumes will be a suicide mission. But, of course, Faramir survives.

------------------
The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.

[This message has been edited by Spork (edited December 23, 2003).]

I don't know about the validity of such contract disputes, I've never heard about them before, but Ian McKellen plays Gandalf, while Saruman is played by Christopher Lee.

------------------
<A HREF="http://www.rot13.com" TARGET=_blank>Wnav "Xebxb" Ghbzvara
w_ghbzvara@yhhxxh.pbz</A>

McKlellan is Gandalf/Magneto.

Christopher Lee is Saruman/Count Dooku.

------------------
Frightening the very small and very old since 1952.

Thats bull carp. Lee got mad that his scenes were cut. The reason Jackson cut his scene was because he didn't feel it was that important, and that it could be put on the extended anyways. then the press had a field day... Lee and Jackson arent enemy's or anything...

------------------
I once knew a man from Nantucket....isn't that just dandy?

"If the Witch King can be killed by no man, why then did a stab in the face seem to do the job"

The Lord of the Nazgul was the first and greatest of Sauron's mortal servants to fall under the sway of the Rings of Power. He was a Numenorean lord of the line of Elros (the brother of Elrond), and he had come to worship Morgoth under the influence of Sauron, and had become a powerful sorcerer and necromancer. The gift of the Ring of Power sealed his fate, completely submerging his will to that of his evil master and granting him immortality at the cost of becoming a wraith. He served his master as Warden of Dol Guldur in the Second Age, but hid when his countrymen of Numenor came to take Sauron in chains to their island. He returned to serve his master during the War of the Last Alliance.

He rose again in Third Age 1300 to found the northern realm of Angmar, in the guise of the Witch-King. His goal was to weaken the crumbling dunedain realm of Arnor for Sauron. Arnor first split into three squabbling nations and then finally crumbled. But the Witch-King's forces were routed in Third Age 1975 at the Battle of Fornost, and he was forced to flee to his master. It was after this flight that Glorfindel foresaw the doom of the Witch-king. "Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall."

During the War of the Ring, he led the army that assaulted Minas Tirith. Although the gates of the city were shattered, he was prevented from entering by Gandalf and the timely arrival of the Rohirrim. He killed King Théoden of Rohan on the Pelennor Fields, but he was himself slain by Éowyn and Merry. I believe Merry stabbed him in the knee.

Then the Nazgul-king became invisible when he passed into unlife. Thereafter, he could only be perceived as a mannish form wreathed in shadow. Only someone perceiving him through magic could see his own, terrible face. Like all of the nine nazgul, he feared water, possibly because of the power of Ulmo, the only Valar who never left Middle-Earth.

"Where did the ship at the end of ROTK take Frodo and the others?"

At the creation of Arda, the world was flat. There were two continents; Aman to the west and Middle-Earth to the east (and later Numenore in the middle). In Aman was the land of Valinor, the land of the Valar. Many elves travelled to this land from Middle-Earth, before the First Age, and were protected by the Valar. However, Men were corrupted by Melkor from their start and were taught to fear and hate the Valar. For this reason, the Valar departed Middle-Earth (save for Ulmo). The Valar also marred Arda, 'bent' the world and curved it around, so it was no longer flat, but spherical. But whereas all other continents were curved around, Aman was not, and Aman remained on the same plane as the original 'flat' earth. That way, any traveller seeking to land on Aman would merely sail around the world and return back at Middle-Earth. To return to Valinor, you would then need a ship that could travel that straight path, not curved around the world, and such does the ship that leaves the Grey Havens.

[This message has been edited by Mort-Hog (edited December 23, 2003).]

So the title Witch-King is actually of Tolkien origin? I withdraw my accusation about the movies then but I still dislike the name... just as I strongly dislike Goldilocks.

[edit]Heh, upon further examination of my first post I realize I deleted the part about not liking the name Witch-King. Damn flu, I get nauseous lying down or I'd have relieved you of my incoherent presence. I'll try harder though, promise.[/edit]

[This message has been edited by Masq (edited December 23, 2003).]

The Lord of the Nazgul went by these names:
Black Captain, Captain of Despair,Dwimmerlaik, Lord of Morgul, Lord of the Nine Riders, Sorcerer, and the Witch-king of Angmar.

The Witch-king of Angmar was the title taken in the middle of the Third Age, when he founded the northern realm of Angmar in opposition to the northern lands of the Dúnedain.

[This message has been edited by Mort-Hog (edited December 23, 2003).]

I read an article about it somewhere, Ive been trying to find it since I posted

------------------
Happy "Diseased" dud: You said I'd be like this guy. Boycotting everything..
Happy "Diseased" dud: ted kazcnisky. That's who it was.
Happy "Diseased" dud: Wait, That's the unibomer.
Happy "Diseased" dud: Wrong guy.

Well now thanks to Mort-Hog's explanation, I see that it was prophesized that no man WOULD kill him. It wasn't that having testes prevented someone from being able to kill him. A man COULD kill him, but it just wasnt going to happen.

------------------
"Guns don't kill people, I kill people."

Easiest way I can explain the Witch Kings death is this:
The armor that the nazgul wear essentially keeps their spirits "together." They are contained by it. When Pippin stabbed him, his blade when into the back of his knee breaking some of hte armor open.

------------------
^^
00

No, Eowyn was able to slay the witch king because Merry stabbed him with an enchanted blade that he finds in the Barrow-Wight tomb. This is in Fellowship but wasn't in the movie, as Tom Bombadil saves the hobbits form the Wights but Tom Bombadil was cut.

I thought the Nazgul had an enchanted shin, which was the source of all his powers...

------------------
The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.

Well, when it comes to prophecies it isn't a matter of what CAN happen it is a matter of what WILL happen.

I have some of my own questions too, great movie. The LotR Trilogy even surpasses the original Star Wars Trilogy...

SPOILERS


1. Why did Faramir's father wanted to burn him so much? Why did he also jump off the cliff when he was on fire?

2. Faramir's alive right? What happened to him after Pippin saved him?

3. Hobbits are harder for the ring to take control right (it took Frodo awhile to be corrupted by it, but Smeagol was instantaneous), or is it different for all individuals?

4. When Gollum bit off Frodo's finger, why did the finger with the ring stayed invisible? Also did he bit off the finger from the right or left? I remember seeing him having all five fingers on his right, but most people wear rings in their right hands?

5. Why didn't Frodo die from Shelob's poison?

6. Finally, you guys say Saruman came back to the shire. Did he lose his magic powers when his staff was broken because he should be as dominating as Gandalf?

1. He is ignorant and insane. He is insane.

2. Yeah, he is. Prolly taken away to be treated. He was at the end where aragorn was made king.

3. They keep saying in the movies that "men, who above all else, desire power". So im guessing men are moe easily taken by the ring.

4. Hrm... i didnt see that, but its prolly because the ring was still on it. I thought i saw a severed finger... but maybe not. And about the cut off finger switching hands... hrm. Might have been because of a frame being mirrored or frodo turning around or rolling over that wasnt caught on camerea or you didnt see it that might have done it.

5. They explained it in the movie. Shelob likes to eat her prey alive. It only makes them look dead.

6. I forgot most of the scourging... i thought orcs did most of the damage.

------------------
There are two asses in Massassi... and I'm one of them.
The Matrix Unplugged|The Valley of the Jedi Tower|Smaug's Lair

[This message has been edited by Cazor (edited December 24, 2003).]

1. He was driven insane through constant use of the palantir at Minas Tirith. In the book he didn't jump off the cliff. Instead, he lit himself on fire while holding the palantir.

2. In the book, Pippin had a gaurd prevent the pyre from being lit while he went to get Gandalf. After Faramir was saved, he was taken to the House of Healing where Aragorn later came and healed him, Merry, and Eowyn who were injured to the point where they would have died. There was a legend that said the one who came with healing hands would be the next king. That was Aragorn and since he wore the elven broach, they came to call him Elessar, or elf-stone in elvish. Faramir and Eowyn also fell in love with each other in the House of Healing which is why you see them together at the end.

3. Hobbits are able to resist the power of the ring better than others.

4. What Cazor said.

5. What Cazor said.

6. A staff is only a way of channeling a wizards power. Saruman still had the power in his voice which could possess the average folk. As for the Scouring of the Shire...Saruman, Wormtongue, and a bunch of thugs did all of that.

Do you remember that black ball that Pippin found at Orthanc, in the water? That is a Palantir; a walkie-talkie to Sauron. Pippin looked into the Palantir for only a very short time and was deeply shocked. Denethor had also discovered one of those, and Sauron had been corrupting him through it. The palantir offers what appears to be foresight and knowledge, but is in fact a corrupted, evil view of the world (this wasn't exceptionally well explained in the film) Denethor had been looking into this palantir for many years. At his end, Denethor lay on the pyre and burned to death with the palantir in his hands.


Yup! Pippin took him to a herbalist, Aragorn healed him, and he survived. Faramir was rewarded with the princedom of Ithilien. Faramir married Eowyn.



Smeagol is (was) a hobbit. A different type of hobbit (Stoors, perhaps), but hobbit nonetheless. Smeagol had the ring for about 550 years, during which it corrupted him thoroughly. Frodo only carried the ring for a little over a year (though he had had it in his house for 17 years after Bilbo's departure, I don't know if that is significant..) and it was already corrupting him severely, and he would not have dropped the ring into Mount Doom voluntarily.

[This message has been edited by Mort-Hog (edited December 25, 2003).]

Hey thank guys, but I don't think I was too cleared on my third question.
Smeagol is a hobbit, but why was he seduced by the ring so easily? I mean he just took one look at the ring and he immediately tried to kill his friend for it. Meanwhile, Frodo doesn't act like that upon seeing the ring.

He really likes shiny things.

------------------
The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.

Smeagol was already kinda messed up. He was pretty selfish. Since they said gollum was something like a hobbit, but not an actual hobbit, he could have more "man-blood" (if that is such a thing) and be easily tricked by the ring, like isildur and pretty much every other man who had the ring close to his grasp. (even sam was tempted in ROTK, and almost took it from frodo. so not all hobbits are less affected by the ring's power)

Gandlaf told frodo what could happen with the ring before he had a chance to think the ring is something good. When bilbo got it he thought it was just a magic ring that turns you invisible, (there's prolly a lot of rings that do that in middle-earth) and a souvineir. He wasn't ever told about how evil it was, but frodo was.

------------------
There are two asses in Massassi... and I'm one of them.
The Matrix Unplugged|The Valley of the Jedi Tower|Smaug's Lair

I don't think the Stoors are particularly any more Man-like than the other two families, they're just slightly beefier and larger. I think it's just that:
- Frodo didn't feel any significant threat to the ring. Frodo was well protected by the Fellowship and Frodo isn't stupid enough to try to take on Boromir single-handed.
- Frodo is smarter and more devious than Smeagol, probably. It was likely that he was simply waiting for the right time to take the ring for himself, and his decision to leave the fellowship may have been somewhat influenced by the ring.
- Frodo is probably purer of heart (hence why Gandalf chose him to bear the ring) than Smeagol.

Gollum was far more tricksey and sneaker than Frodo was. He had spent his life doing sneaky and triksy things.
Gollum had it (the ring) some 500 years I think it was.
Frodo however, had it less than 1.

------------------
Founder of the Massassi Brute Squad (MBS)
Ab Hoc Possum Videre Domum Tuum
(I can see your house from up here)
"But he's not going to carry you three" said Death.
"Why not?"
"It's a matter of the look of the thing"
"It's going to look pretty good, then, isn't it" said War testily, "the One Horseman and Three Pedestrians of the Apocralypse"

"I am the signature virus! Copy me into your signature so that I can take over the world! Moohahahee!"