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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Airplane on a conveyor belt
123456
Airplane on a conveyor belt
2007-03-11, 10:57 AM #201
Originally posted by Lord Kuat:
some air would indeed hit the fins on the edges of the wing, deflecting the air and causing some degree of lift.
just for the record I have nothing against you, only alice
Attachment: 15682/wing_whole.jpg (80,250 bytes)
2007-03-11, 11:08 AM #202
Originally posted by Jon`C:
...engine is attached to wing... net force = 0


:gonk: Damnit.

'k then, I think I need to rethink my life. As of right now I see what you're saying, just need to wrap my head around it a bit more.
2007-03-11, 11:24 AM #203
Uhh... yeah..
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2007-03-11, 11:31 AM #204
Bull. If net force was zero, plane would not be moving, no?

Therefore, net force is not zero. (Oh, and separation of air and wing&engine does not works here. I`m sure everyone knows, why.)
I don`t suffer from the lack of sanity.
It`s others, who have it in excess.
2007-03-11, 11:34 AM #205
Hey guess what you are still wrong.

o.0
2007-03-11, 11:35 AM #206
Lift works on a net force of 0 you idiot. Don't you know the concept of lift? It's SIMPLE.
ᵗʰᵉᵇˢᵍ๒ᵍᵐᵃᶥᶫ∙ᶜᵒᵐ
ᴸᶥᵛᵉ ᴼᵑ ᴬᵈᵃᵐ
2007-03-11, 11:37 AM #207
Oh-uh. Well, you just made a breakthrough in Newtonian physics, then. Congrats. Be sure to pick your Nobel Prize on the way.

After all, if lift can be achieved with zero net force... Then wow. We can just lift outselves up with zero force applied. Why noone thought about it earlier?
I don`t suffer from the lack of sanity.
It`s others, who have it in excess.
2007-03-11, 11:40 AM #208
Originally posted by Alice Shade:
Oh-uh. Well, you just made a breakthrough in Newtonian physics, then. Congrats. Be sure to pick your Nobel Prize on the way.

After all, if lift can be achieved with zero net force... Then wow. We can just lift outselves up with zero force applied. Why noone thought about it earlier?


The wing lifts BECAUSE net force is zero you tool. There is a pressure difference between the upper and lower portion of the wing and equilibrium is satisfied by the uplift on the wing.
2007-03-11, 11:42 AM #209
So... Wing lifts with net force of zero applied to it?

As I said... Nobel Prize. Right now.
I don`t suffer from the lack of sanity.
It`s others, who have it in excess.
2007-03-11, 11:45 AM #210
... You don't know anything about lift. I don't know enough to explain it to you comma but I'm sure martyn does. But ever since I was in 4th grade comma I understood the concept of unequal pressure comma thus lift. You comma don't.
ᵗʰᵉᵇˢᵍ๒ᵍᵐᵃᶥᶫ∙ᶜᵒᵐ
ᴸᶥᵛᵉ ᴼᵑ ᴬᵈᵃᵐ
2007-03-11, 11:45 AM #211
NO YOU SPANNER.

There is an uplift force applied to the wing.

Read that again.

There is an uplift force applied to the wing.

Right, now you've got that in your head try to get this in there at the same time. When the difference in pressures are taken into account AT THE SAME TIME AS THIS UPLIFT the net (as in total) force is zero.

So you have a low pressure above the wing and a high pressure below the wing. This produces an uplift which raises the aircraft. The sum of all these forces is zero.

The net force is zero.
2007-03-11, 11:48 AM #212
Holy f*ck. :psyduck:

That is all.
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2007-03-11, 11:49 AM #213
There have been only two people I've seen get Martyn all pissed, Friend14 and now Alice Shade.
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2007-03-11, 11:50 AM #214
Net force is the resulting force of ALL of them applied to wing. Including the uplift force.

FYI, all the forces can and should be added, until you will have single net force vector, or pair of rotating moment vectors.

Trying to manipulate forces one by one is simply wrong.
I don`t suffer from the lack of sanity.
It`s others, who have it in excess.
2007-03-11, 11:51 AM #215
.
Attachment: 15683/d4.jpg (130,249 bytes)
2007-03-11, 11:53 AM #216
Originally posted by JediGandalf:
There have been only two people I've seen get Martyn all pissed, Friend14 and now Alice Shade.


Before today I had never, ever, in all of my time on Massassi, been so stunned by a person's total lack of comprehension as to actually use the psyduck smiley. This was the second time I've done it today.
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2007-03-11, 11:53 AM #217
Originally posted by Alice Shade:

FYI, all the forces can and should be added, until you will have single net force vector


And when you do that you get a BIG FAT ZERO.

(and JG is right. I am getting red in the face in the face of galloping stupidity from people who at first glance should know MUCH better)
2007-03-11, 12:01 PM #218
I pass.

One`d think you should`ve realised, that pressure should be accounted for in the net force vector, to physically describe the movement.

Yet, you insist on some completely strange notion, that pressure should be accounted for outside the physical model.

As I said... Nobel prize. Pressure is outside physics. Call the paparazzi.
I don`t suffer from the lack of sanity.
It`s others, who have it in excess.
2007-03-11, 12:03 PM #219
Originally posted by Alice Shade:
Yet, you insist on some completely strange notion, that pressure should be accounted for outside the physical model.


Martyn is an engineer.
You are a retard on the internet.

Guess who's right
2007-03-11, 12:06 PM #220
Oh my god.

Somebody make the stupid stop before I ****ing EXPLODE.

No really - it's hurting my fragile little mind.
2007-03-11, 12:08 PM #221
calm down my mantrain friend.
/me fishhumps
free(jin);
tofu sucks
2007-03-11, 12:12 PM #222
Haha. English Teachers, Engineers, and the Layman have all disagreed with her. Yet she still claims she's got everything figured out.
ᵗʰᵉᵇˢᵍ๒ᵍᵐᵃᶥᶫ∙ᶜᵒᵐ
ᴸᶥᵛᵉ ᴼᵑ ᴬᵈᵃᵐ
2007-03-11, 12:14 PM #223
/me fishsecks the Mantrain too

Hush my pet...
nope.
2007-03-11, 12:16 PM #224
You guys are getting mean.
2007-03-11, 12:17 PM #225
I'm going to have some beer - that'll calm me down...

*seeeeeths....*
2007-03-11, 12:18 PM #226
I can calm you down.
2007-03-11, 12:18 PM #227
Originally posted by Vincent Valentine:
I can calm you down.


You saucy minx :P
2007-03-11, 12:47 PM #228
Originally posted by Alice Shade:
I pass.

One`d think you should`ve realised, that pressure should be accounted for in the net force vector, to physically describe the movement.

Yet, you insist on some completely strange notion, that pressure should be accounted for outside the physical model.

As I said... Nobel prize. Pressure is outside physics. Call the paparazzi.


Ok, I'm all better now.

Right. We are looking at this in purely the VERTICAL PLANE. The flow of air over the wing creates an area of low air pressure over the top of the wing and a relatively high air pressure below. To counteract the pressure differential (and satisfying vertical equilibrium) an uplift force acts underneath the wing trying to move the wing into the area of low pressure to even things out.

If this simplified paragraph doesn't allow you understand the concept of lift I'm afraid there's nothing else I can do for you.
2007-03-11, 1:00 PM #229
I can't explain it any simpler than martyn has already done and he is right...

and why should you listen to me...well, this is me.

When a body, any body has a net force not equal to zero it is accelerating. When net force = 0, the body does not accelerate, it will remain at constant speed...

go read here if you continue not to believe. (scroll down to the section labeled "A Paradox?")

[edit] this link http://history.nasa.gov/SP-367/chapt8.htm is better, if you don't believe nasa, well, we're screwed, scroll down to just after figure 116 and start reading...pay close attention to figure 117[/edit]
People of our generation should not be subjected to mornings.

Rbots
2007-03-11, 1:11 PM #230
This thread is really depressing me.

Also:
Originally posted by JediGandalf:
I even drew a sodding picture!

My girlfriend has that exact dry-erase board. Same magnets and everything.
2007-03-11, 1:15 PM #231
Oh, and I may not have a website, but I do have a masters degree in engineering, and here's an example of some of the work I'm on with at the moment...

[http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v464/martynpie/KingsgateHouse.jpg]

Sorry if the size is laaarge.
2007-03-11, 1:18 PM #232
Originally posted by Martyn:
Sorry if the size is laaarge.


Don't worry, Mantrain, I'm sure Alice is used to it.
2007-03-11, 1:18 PM #233
martyn wins. end of thread.
free(jin);
tofu sucks
2007-03-11, 1:25 PM #234
build me a fortress.

with walls and a moat.
2007-03-11, 2:05 PM #235
I have to say, from the outset of this thread I never imagined it would get to be this long, nor that the argument that would extend it to such lengths would be something only marginally related to the original question.

Then again, I guess I shouldn't be so surprised. This is Massassi, after all.
Stuff
2007-03-11, 2:48 PM #236
Alice, Your wrong. Even i know how an airplane works better then you.
Thats pretty pathetic.
2007-03-11, 2:50 PM #237
:v:
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2007-03-11, 3:00 PM #238
Originally posted by Tiberium_Empire:
Alice, Your wrong. Even i know how an airplane works better then you.
Thats pretty pathetic.


...so, in other words, you are admitting that you are a dumb***??
SnailIracing:n(500tpostshpereline)pants
-----------------------------@%
2007-03-11, 3:04 PM #239
Why is there still an argument? The plane take off because it moves forward. The jets push the plane forward and the wheels do what ever they need to because they have no friction.

The plane take off like normal. The jets provide forward thrust, which in turn causes the wing to move through the air which in turn causes lift.
2007-03-11, 3:17 PM #240
I DECRY! DECREE
The plane will take off for all the reasons that James Bond, Martyn, Jon`C, Detty, and I have all said. These facts have been confirmed by many people who have taken up a study in physics or a profession requiring physics (Martyn, James Bond).

Only one other person on these boards has demonstrated a complete misunderstanding of basic physics principles and that is Friend14. Also you share his same obstinate stances on misguided physics. Which leads me to speculate on a few things here...

Moral of this post: Pick up a sodding physics book and read on Newton's Laws, Bernoulli Principle, and just about everything else.

This thread ends now.
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
123456

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