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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Learning C++
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Learning C++
2007-06-04, 9:47 PM #81
Originally posted by Brian:
Is Office in .NET? Notepad? Any program shipped with windows?

Why would those be written in .NET? Office has been around for years. It would be an engineering nightmare to port it to .NET, and in this stage of its life, not present much benefit. Notepad hasn't changed in like forever, so I see no reason why they would bother with that. How about Windows Media Player? Also a very complete application with a huge C++ foundation. Porting it would be a nightmare with little benefit. Internet Explorer? Same story. It's irrelevant anyway, since Microsoft's use of C# doesn't determine how good it is. For all we know it could be that some dude high up at Microsoft really loves C++ and doesn't want to change. It doesn't really matter.

C# is a young technology, so don't expect it to gain industry-wide acceptance overnight. But a very prevalent use is in web development. A lot of websites use ASP.NET. Something like 45% of Fortune 1000 companies use ASP.NET for their webpages, which means they are probably written in C# or VB.NET (the underlying mechanics of which are very similar to C#, and they compile to the same intermediate code).

Originally posted by Brian:
Clearly, there is a demand for C# programmers. Clearly, there's also a large demand for the rest listed there.

Of course, but don't think for one minute that the common use of a language determines how good it is. And again, no one's saying other languages aren't useful or shouldn't be learned, only that C# is a very, very good choice for a general purpose language and a good point to start learning.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2007-06-04, 9:54 PM #82
Originally posted by Brian:
I don't think Microsoft put their company on the line behind .NET. Is Office in .NET? Notepad? Any program shipped with windows? Can anyone name a best-selling game written in C#?
A lot of the Media Center in Vista is managed. Any of the really reworked parts of Vista are managed (gpedit, event viewer, mmc, some networking config stuff, and the new frameworks - workflow, presentation and communications).

They were working on making a lot more of the GUI in Vista managed but apparently they ran out of time. Vista had a couple of false starts.

It wasn't a particularly huge game, but Uplink was written in C#. The first major commercial XNA/C# is Schizoid, and it's going to be released on Xbox Live Arcade soon. Microsoft's C# game development libraries (MDX, XNA) have been in beta up until, like, 5 weeks ago.

Only parts of office are in .NET -- OOXML serialization, scripting. I don't remember if the GUI is in WPF or not.

Any program that uses a property grid (they're quite distinctive) uses .NET - it's because you don't have to write any code to get the property grid to link to the object, it detects all of the properties in a class automatically.

I think that just about covers it.
2007-06-04, 9:55 PM #83
Originally posted by West Wind:
Because I can tell you about a language that can honestly claim all of these features, but forget to tell you that it's a mathematicaly inclined language, and writing non-mathematical code in it is pure hell.

Oh common. You know very well C# isn't a special purpose language. You're acting as if C# has a few buzzwords and the rest is crap that no one chooses to talk about? If you really want to see what it's like, try it. Hell, just look up some tutorials! Just glance over them and you'll see how simple common tasks have become.

You're asking us what C# makes easier to do, but it's hard to answer since it makes everything easier to do.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2007-06-04, 9:56 PM #84
Originally posted by West Wind:
This is also what I want to know about C#. What’s it like to actually write significant amounts of code in C#, where does the language get sticky, what things do you get for free?

My job is maintaining [url=www.1parkplace.com]1parkplace[/url]. The back end is entirely...no I take that back there are some legacy ASP pages but 85% of this site is in .NET/C#. There are about 50 source files totaling to some...85KLOC. If this were in PHP or Perl, I'd be unemployed right now because I would seriously not want to maintain anything of this scale in either of those languages. I don't know python or ruby so I didn't include those as I have no basis of understanding.

Honestly where I get "sticky" is just "ok. How do I do this? *goes to MSDN* or "Ok. How do I implement this?" Once I figure it out, it's all golden from there.
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2007-06-04, 9:58 PM #85
JonC, I really like the fact that you actually respond to questions. It's refreshing.
2007-06-04, 10:02 PM #86
It's not my fault you asked a stupid question.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2007-06-04, 10:05 PM #87
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Any program that uses a property grid (they're quite distinctive) uses .NET - it's because you don't have to write any code to get the property grid to link to the object, it detects all of the properties in a class automatically.

How it does that is through the use of reflection and reflection is four kinds of :awesome:
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2007-06-04, 10:20 PM #88
Rumors are that IE8 could be entirely rewritten in .net with compliance.

But I'll believe it when I see it.
ᵗʰᵉᵇˢᵍ๒ᵍᵐᵃᶥᶫ∙ᶜᵒᵐ
ᴸᶥᵛᵉ ᴼᵑ ᴬᵈᵃᵐ
2007-06-04, 10:21 PM #89
I once wrote this text game that needed to parse commands. And I couldn't be arsed to write a parser so I just used reflection to where any command I typed just executed the method of the same name of a class. :)
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2007-06-04, 10:50 PM #90
Originally posted by Emon:
It's not my fault you asked a stupid question.


Sorry, I'm still laughing at you because of the whole, "you have no experience," "yes I do," "that's a fallacy!!!" thing.
2007-06-04, 11:45 PM #91
I said you had no experience relevant to the subject at hand, which you have so keenly demonstrated as being true.

I also said "very smart" and "qualified" and you don't seem to be those. Experience as a Perl programmer doesn't mean you know the first thing about C#.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2007-06-05, 12:37 AM #92
@ Stormtrooper and on topic:

Regardless of which platform/environment/language is "better", my advice for a non-programmer is to learn whatever is easiest to pick up without having to understand low-level theoretical concepts (which you can learn as you go along and gain experience - but which I doubt interest a beginner). Easiest to learn = a high-level language (even a scripting language) that has a well documented API with a wealth of examples and a solid community behind it.

I mean, why do you want to program a game engine? Because you have ideas for a game. You want to create things, you want to make things move around the screen. You don't want to debug memory leaking code.
Dreams of a dreamer from afar to a fardreamer.
2007-06-05, 4:46 AM #93
Making games is boring. Diving through disassembly in a debugger looking for that tiny defect that brought the whole system to it's knees... that's fun.

Seriously.
Wikissassi sucks.
2007-06-05, 1:25 PM #94
There are a handful of languages I am learning:
Python
Ruby
C#
JavaScript

They are all good for different things and they are all useful enough in modern software development to justify learning.
Detty. Professional Expert.
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