Hey folks,

I've played the crap out of JK2:JO and JK3:JA, and got a hankering to go back and finally play DF, DF2 and MOTS...

...I tried playing DF2 years ago, almost vomited, so got rid of it. Just got them again off ebay, and here's my questions:


1. What mods/patches exactly (and where to find them) do I need to upgrade the graphics, etc., so I won't get sick?!? (I'm not worried about extra skins, levels, etc right now)

2. Dark Forces; I'm running Win2K. Tried running it on DOS window, but couldn't get it to run. What's up?

1. SITH2 was never completed, so nothing
2. DOSbox

Want to puke extra hard? Play Quake2 at a nice high modern resolution.

Visit http://jkhub.net/ for lots of mods. There's one particular mod called Jedi Knight Enhanced that updates all of the models (and their textures) in the game, but not the levels or level textures. It will require that this is installed first, though.

As for getting it to run, I personally had no issues, so I'm not sure what your problem is.

Pfft. Don't be such a graphics whore.

Why the hell would it make you sick?
The only oddness i find [Even at max resolution] is the tiny hud and low moniter refresh.

This thread makes me feel sad inside.

me too.

It depends.

Are you getting sick because of crazy motion and odd visual effects? If so you might want to look into drivers and adjusting your mouse sensetivity.

Are you "getting sick" because the graphics do not meet your high expectations? Then play another game.

Well, I actually haven't played it since I got it again...bad memories.

And it was way back when, when I played it before and got nauseated, so I can't quite remember what graphically/motion-wise screwed with me...

Though only a few games ever have made me sick, so hopefully these patches/mods will help!


As for DF, what exactly do I do to run it on Win2K Prof?

Open a DOS window, then type "Dark" does nothing. It wouldn't even let me open that directory (folder) off the C: drive.

edit/remove

I need to buy this game sometime.

Yes.

We all know you are only able to read or comprehend children's books about ambiguosly homosexual men in yellow suits and curious monkeys.

For some reason, I thought this thread was going to be about drinking.

Well, I'm able to play for brief periods without upchucking, so that's good!

Strange thing though, the damn cutscenes lag, stutter, and skip like crazy! Needless to say, my system's about 100X more powerful than needed so doesn't make sense.

I think I did a complete install (only couple hundred meg's), so maybe I should reinstall and let it run the movies off the disk?

JK always had problems for me in the cutscenes, no matter what machine I ran it off of. Taking the cutscenes off the disk and putting them on your HD might work since the game doesn't have to read them from the disk (it did for me way back when), but if I remember right, you'll have to do some registry editing to get JK.EXE to find the cutscenes that are from disk 2.

Your machine is processing the scummvm files too quickly. There are hack work around to slow your card down, but it's hardly worth it. Just youtube the videos if you have to see them.

But.... the cheesy FMVs were half the fun of playing!

Actually, I figured out a way to make them slightly watchable...

When they start to sputter, hit pause (spacebar) then after a few moments, un-pause it, and it will play smoothly for a while...

Old games make people sick because the graphics 'swim'. The geometry is often being stored in rather low precision. Quake/QuakeII are especially bad. They convert verticies to INTEGERS before rendering! JK does it too - it's why you get cracks in what should be perfectly fine geometry. You didn't notice when the game was new because you were playing at 640*480 or something. Nowadays, you crank QuakeII up to 1800*1280 and then you look at the gun and it looks like a sack full of maggots you have to reach for your trashcan.

Yesterday I beat DF2, and wanted to move onto MOTS, but it wouldn't run; kept asking me to re-install DirectX 5.0 at the splash menu screen.

Even if I chose to reinstall Dx5.0, it wouldn't. So I can't seem to get MOTS to go past the splash screen.

Is there a fix for this?

I've never had motion sickness, but my sister acquired it when she spent hours finding secret rooms in Wolfenstein 3D (you press yourself against the walls and press Spacebar and now and then some walls move).

While I don't have motion sickness or feel bad watching old graphics (unless they're really ugly, JK is kind of borderline that), in general I tend to prefer 3D games because 2D sometimes gets frustrating. Oh, and even Duke Nukem 3D's ancient silly cartoony graphics sometimes please me a lot more than the new high resolution textures. Hm.

Don't use the launcher, run the game exe (mots.exe maybe?) directly.

ummm no

For starters, yes, Quake 2 map files do store "brushes" in integers but that's because they define brushes as a positive space region enclosed in a series of clipping planes and simply store the plane equations. This is ideal for BSP computation but the final vertex lump is indeed in floating points.

[Source: http://www.geocities.com/cofrdrbob/bspformat.html]

Jedi Knight uses floating points from start to finish. The values are never converted into integers, ever.


The reason you see vertices in JK jump around is because JK uses a very small scale. A single precision floating point is usually only accurate to within a few significant digits. On modern monitors this imprecision could appear as several pixels wide. This happens during transformation not during rasterization.

The reason you see gaps is similar. In Quake 2, when the plane equations are used to extract the final vertices, sometimes the math doesn't quite add up. This should only happen on odd angles (like ~33 degrees) and when the brush on the other edge of the seam isn't the same size. id's BSP compiler, incidentally, helps to mitigate this flaw with additional geometry subdivision but it's not foolproof.

JED doesn't take floating point inaccuracy into account at all and the consequences are easily visible at high zoom levels.

Quake 2 level vertices shouldn't be jumping around at all. Model vertices will, because those are stored in uchars.


Edit: Don't forget, the bigger the float the bigger the epsilon.

Uh, what? ScummVM is a third party interpreter for the LucasArts Scumm engine, which they used in adventure games like Maniac Mansion or Fate of Atlantis. MotS uses some retarded in-house SAN video compression that no one knows anything about.

.SAN files were used for SCUMM FMVs.

Oh. :saddowns:

Me three

I'm thinking I tried that, but it still asked to reinstall Dx5.0

I actually considered unistalling Dx and reinstalling the inferior 5.0 just to play the game... Hope it doesn't come to that!

BTW, SFCIII used to have a similar problem. I'm surprised there isn't a patch for this.

You can't uninstall DirectX. Well, you can with third party tools, but it's not a good idea. On a modern system it will probably break everything if you replace it with DirectX 5.

There are two EXEs. One's the launcher and one's the actual game. I think it's Sith.exe that you want to run. One of them opens the launcher and the other one takes you straight into the game.

if it helps, jk and mots suck and aren't really worth playing so there's no big loss

Yeah so do mommies.

Oh snap.

You could try installing Windows 98 or something in a VM, then install DX5 and play.

You say that, but I think you're just bitter.

you can think whatever you want, it's not going to make jk any better

I'm actually getting a little (~20GB) hard drive, just to install old Win98se so as to play my old games, for nostalgia purposes.

(ST Armada I & II won't play right on Win2K or XP)

I'll mess with those .exe files, see if I can bypass the launcher.

thanks!

I would encourage you to google solutions for particular games before installing them on your Win98 partition. Just because it's easier than rebooting to play your games. System Shock 2, for example, has a user-made patch that allows it to run on XP and Vista.

quick question. This post has inspired me to reinstall JK with the aforementioned patches...

Does either JKE or the Unnoficial JK Patch slow down Kyle's move speed? Cause I'm at that part in lvl 1 where you have to flip that switch to move that door along the ground to reveal the stairwell in the middle, but in the meantime the door covers the pit, so you have to drop down real fast, then run out into the pit then jump out before the door covers it. Now I know it goes faster on Hard (which is what I'm playing on), but I've never had any trouble with it before, and I can't seem to even get close to making it out. Plus it felt like Kyle was moving a bit slower than normal when I first started playing.. But then, it's been a long time.

Neither patch touches the game physics or anything. Have you enabled auto-run?

Also make sure to strafe run. Hold the strafe right or left keys and change your viewing angle so that you still move forward.