2 parts... bear with me...

PART I: So, I've been jogging/walking three times a week, and doing some weight training with dumbbells since January, and have dropped a massive amount of weight.

But, I swear, every week it's like my lower back hurts worse and worse. I can't sleep on my stomach anymore because after laying that way for about an hour, the pain almost brings me to tears. Oh yeah, it hurts pretty much all the time now, not just when I get out of bed like it did before January.



My uncle is an avid runner and says that lower back pain is common among runners/joggers.

Any of you runners/joggers experience this?

PART II: How the hell do you runners/joggers have such endurance? I can't run for more than a minute before I'm huffing and puffing thinking I'm going to go into cardiac arrest. Even when I was in school, I was good for short sprinting, but long distance was beyond what I could conceive. How the hell do you do that?

I never have had lower back pains. It sounds like your form is wrong and/or you're not stretching your back enough.

A few tips:

• Eliminate twisting motion when running, especially on your torso. Your body is meant to move in circles, not back and forth.
  
• Best thing to do (JediGandalf suggested this) is to have your arms in a locomotive train motion, or skiier type thing.
  
• Keep your head up, directed forward.
  
• Start slow. Newbs always want to run 500 miles, and then do 500 more. Best thing to do is to make it 1 mile in 10 minutes or so.
  
• Sleep soldier style without a pillow for a day, see if it helps, if not, sleep with one.
  
• Keep your back stretched, and breathe while you are stretching.

Any sort of pain (PAIN pain, not muscle fatigue) is not Not NOT NOT NOT normal during any kind of exercise. If it is, you're doing it WRONG.


I can't stress this enough. So many people are like "Oh such-and-such is SUPPOSED to hurt." Much as Kevin Spacey said to superman in the new superman movie... WROOOOOOOOOOOOOONG.


Anovis has a lot of good ideas, try them out. I have to go now, but when I come back I'll try to ask some questions so we can see what you're doing wrong. It's very likely that you are actually running wrong. Either, like Anovis said, you're twisting, or your legs aren't moving right.

We'll figure it out!

jedikirby for the lulz

In the past I've done a lot of long distance running (to county level in the UK, equal to about State level I guess in the US) and still do a fair amount of running now a days. If you are getting lower back pain you are (as happydud & Anovis pointed out) running "wrong" if there can be such a thing.

My guess would be that you are running flat footed. (just try stamping your foot on the ground flat, you should start to feel it in your lower back after a while)

You'll be generating a lot of shock when you foot lands on the ground and the vast majority of it will be taken up by your lower back and spine, which isn't good on a prolonged basis. You may not be feeling it as you run, you rarely do, but it will be doing damage to your back and you should either stop running so often or change your running style straight away.

Anovis had a good few suggestions there, but I think its something far more simple, I've seen people running with their arms flapping around not get problems and you would really have to be doing an adverse amount of upper body twisting to get problems in your lower back.

Only advice I can give is get on the ball of you toes when running, keep your back straight, don't hunch over and just try to keep an eye on how your feet are landing after you take a stride.

Oh, as for the endurance, it just comes with practice, can't say any more than that.

Tip to running long distance: imagine yourself crossing the finish line. Works for me every time, and I just zone out and keep going.

i did long distance running all throughout high school and while i did pull a muscle here and there i never had back pain because of it... the only thing i could really think of is like James Bond already said if your running flat footed, or if when you finish each stride you land hard on your heel and just slap the rest of your foot down.

I had a little nosey about the net for an article, the beeb have one which I think you should read

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/health_and_fitness/4286146.stm

Posture is very important. Make sure you keep your chin up, and back straight. Slouching while running could be the problem too.

A good test to see how much shock your absorbing is what I call "the stealth test." We use it in parkour all the time with landings.

When landing (or when a foot strikes the ground when you're running), the more noise that is made when the foot strikes the ground, the more shock you're creating. So when we land from a drop, we try to absorb the impact with our legs, and so I can land from 3 or 4 feet up almost SILENTLY.

When you're running, just listen. Are you making more noise than a bear mauling some camper? Or are you running quietly. If you're running quietly, your joints and back won't be taking all of that shock.

Being in the 82nd, I've run a lot.

Before this deployment we ran, on average, 8 miles 2 days a week and on Fridays, depending on the week, we'd run either a 10 or 12 miler.

One thing I have discovered about running is that if it is causing you any kind of pain you are, like everyone else said, doing it wrong.
It's supposed to be a stride, not a retarded hop like most people do. Think of a gazelle(sp?) When I first got to Division, I couldn't run for ****. But a lot of the guys who had been there for a while taught me some secrets to long distance running.

One is to get the right kind of shoes. Go to any sporting goods store and have your feet fitted for running shoes. There are 3 different types.

Do some sprints. Sprinting and 60/120's are the best way to improve your endurance for long distance running.

Drink lots of water. You can't proform at your best if you're not properly hydrated.

Don't get in a hurry. Everyone has to start somewhere and just because you can't run a 2 mile course in 12 minutes does not mean you're a bad running or that you're doing something wrong. Don't expect to be fast starting out.

And finally, enjoy it. Don't make it a hassel like "Oh dammit, I have to go run", make it something you want to do.

Also, your feet are deformed. That's why it's hard for people to run.

As good as the advice in this thread is, if it's hurting that much, you should really stop and go to a doctor.

Not necessarily. If it's causing lasting pain, then perhaps, but most doctors aren't going to be able to help you with your running technique..

Whatever you do, don't start popping pills to get rid of the pain. Pain is your body telling you that something is wrong; mask that signal and you're in for a world of hurt later on.

Physical therapist.

Right, and "most doctors" aren't physical therapists.

Before going to a physical therapist, there are plenty of smaller things you can adjust which will more than likely be exactly what the physical therapist tells you.

Pain is weakness leaving the body. Quit being a wussy!

I started doing this a while ago and it really helped, stopped my chest pain while running.

Which is why he wouldn't go to "most doctors."

I was a cross-country runner in high school and for a season in college. It takes a lot of training to get to the point where you can run for 90 minutes at a 7 minute mile pace or faster.

Listen to what happydud is saying. I laugh at runners with horrible posture (I know, I'm a *******) because 1) they are wasting large amounts of their energy by swaying/bounding/bobblehead 2) You can and will hurt yourself. Keep relaxed. Tension anywhere = energy not spent in running. Keep your arms like a "L" all the time. Anything larger or smaller than 90 degrees will make your torso sway. Swaying = energy not spent in running. I will counter happydud on posture and leaning forward a bit. When going up a hill, lean forward and lift your legs higher. Don't do it excessively. You will climb the hill much better.

Edit: Run every other day for about first two-three weeks. You're not used to the sudden endurance challenge from your body. The day between allows you to recover. This does not mean be a slouch that day. Keep yourself moving. Once you get acclimated to running, then you can go everyday.

Good on you.



I never have, but know many who have. For some people, it's your feet. Fallen/falling arches can jack up your entire posture, which becomse MUCH more apparant when running (you're putting a LOT more force, shock force too, on your body). Maybe look into getting a sports medecine assessment. Lots of orthopedic places will do free injur assessments and tell you if you really need to talk to your doctor or not.


PART II: How the hell do you runners/joggers have such endurance? I can't run for more than a minute before I'm huffing and puffing thinking I'm going to go into cardiac arrest. Even when I was in school, I was good for short sprinting, but long distance was beyond what I could conceive. How the hell do you do that?[/QUOTE]

I'm a glutton for punishment. I kind of get off on passing out and throwing up sometimes.

So, like, if it hurts when I'm bulking up and I life heavy weights, then I'm doing it wrong?

Even if I'm 400 lbs more muscular?

I'm not quite sure I understand, but I was trying to make a difference between the normal hurt that's supposed to occur and the hurt that occurs when you're damaging yourself.

JediGandalf- I was trying to decide if I should include that caveat. Probably should of, thanks for noting it.

Might want to go get fitted with a good pair of running shoes. Shoes that don't support your feet properly can make the rest of the body hurt.

I've only read about half of this thread before getting bored, so if this was already posted sorry, but...

WHAT KIND OF SHOES ARE YOU WEARING??

Shoes are terribly important for any kind of distance running. Find a store in your area with someone that can watch you run and help you pick a good pair of running shoes. The right pair of shoes can have a serious effect on pain or lack thereof.

[bah, ok. so avenger beat me]

Like everyone said, check your posture and your shoes. Since nobody has really talked about shoes, I'll go a little more in depth as to what you should look for. Before I do, make sure you include lower back stretches in your stretching regimen (you are stretching before running, right?). Best way to stretch your back is toe touches and arching/dipping. Get on all fours, and arch your back like a cat, hold, then dip your stomach towards the ground. That should help a little.

As for shoes. Best way for determining your foot type is the wet test. Wet your bare foot, then stand on a piece of paper or something where you'll be able to see your footprint. If very little paper is wet, you have a high-arched foot, and may be a supinator. Look for cushioned shoes with a curved or semicurved shape.

If you have a flat foot, you may be an overpronator, and you need motion control shoes. If you have a normal arch, look for stability shoes.

Don't skimp on running shoes. You don't have to buy $150 shoes, but shoes are really the only important equipment you need for running, so you might as well make sure you get some that work well for you.

Also, try alternating with cross training to give your running muscles a rest while still keeping a good cardiovascular workout. I recommend swimming or biking. When biking, make sure you keep a high cadence going and don't just cruise along in the highest gear.

For part 2, you should start at a pace that will let you talk comfortably. Speed up from there as you get more comfortable. A good trick is also to time your breathing with your footfalls. I breathe in/out every other step after I've been running for a while, but find a rhythm that works for you.

That's muscle fatigue, that's ok. It goes away after the muscle has stopped exercising. What's not ok is that if you lift said weights and you experience lots of pain right away, you have damaged muscles that need to heal before resuming exercising. Exercising on damaged muscles will cause further harm.

Do sit-ups.

Quite possibly the worst advice ever. Congratulations.

The pain you get from lifting heavy is not because you're doing it wrong, it's because your muscles are tearing and the soreness you get later is your muscles rebuilding.

No. The discomfort you get from heavy lifting is your muscles breaking down.

The pain] you get from lifting heavy means you are messing your body up.

Lots of kids fell for the "Pain is weakness leaving the body" slogan the Marine Recruiters spout. We all found out about the second time we got ****ed up in boot camp that pain is how you know you're getting ****in broke.

There should never, ever, ever be pain in a healthy workout program. Not to say that my shoulders dont kill me when I'm doing pullups, but I have to keep my numbers up. For anyone in a normal situation without requirements like that, you should only be uncomfortable, not in pain.

....Isn't that pretty much what I just said?


I fell for that "Pain Is Weakness..." thing, too.

Until I got smoked for 3 hours. I wanted to cry

Shoes... haven't considered that before. I need to get some new shoes. Mine are quite old.

Posture/form - yeah, I bet I'm hitting the ground pretty flat footed.

Flat feet - very possible.

Doctor - yeah, chiropractor. I'll probably go see one when I get paid in a couple of weeks. My back would hurt before all the exercise started, but only when I got out of bed and the pain would stop. I think the exercise has aggravated whatever was going on with my back already.

Like today, my back was killing me, however I didn't go walking/jogging today or yesterday (it felt better yesterday actually).

Oh God. Please tell me that's a typo and not some yuppie neologism.

Yeah, the thing is lots of people who don't exercise a lot never really have the difference between pain and discomfort explained to them. So when you say "pain" they might think "Oh, well I'm not doing it right unless I feel searing pain in my tendons!"

But yeah, first time I ended up doing mountain climbers for several hours because my rackmate was a ****bag...

Not happy times.

Yeah that was a typo. It happens when you don't get enough sleep

Lose the sad face, man, "a typo" was the happy ending

The sad face was for the lack of sleep.