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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Updated JK "stuff"
Updated JK "stuff"
2007-08-09, 11:58 AM #1
So I've seen Detty's Java JKL renderer. I've seen Sith2. We saw Mattias Welander's attempt at making a "real" 3d version of Dark Forces. We've got people now with the Jed source code working on issues with Jed and maybe even doing rewrites.

What are the major challenges with these efforts, and are they still moving forward? I've heard that Sith2 is cancelled. Was there some insurmountable problem with it?
2007-08-09, 12:00 PM #2
Something related to the physics stuff, I think. Jon put the source code on the net but no one ever picked it up... or something.
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2007-08-09, 12:09 PM #3
SITH2 died because the guy programming the renderer apparently was doing a horrible job or something.
2007-08-09, 12:10 PM #4
Or atleast thats what Joncy always whines about.
2007-08-09, 12:15 PM #5
Sige's render code was crap.

And JK's netcode is pretty much the reason why so many editors have given up. It doesn't do what it should, and it makes any good ideas fall flat on their face.
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2007-08-09, 12:16 PM #6
There were a few issues with SITH2. The coding of the renderer didn't play much of a role, if I remember correctly.
TAKES HINTS JUST FINE, STILL DOESN'T CARE
2007-08-09, 12:41 PM #7
I think the show-stopping issue with SITH2 was that nobody knew how to do the clipping and physics code reliably.
Detty. Professional Expert.
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2007-08-09, 1:01 PM #8
Did the cog engine get completed and was it working properly?
2007-08-09, 1:06 PM #9
Originally posted by Brian:
Did the cog engine get completed and was it working properly?


That was Jon`C's first project I think, and if I remember correctly that was completely done.
2007-08-09, 1:11 PM #10
Last I heard, GoY is looking at it right now.
Cordially,
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1473 for '1337' posts.
2007-08-09, 3:42 PM #11
I've started working on a DF clone.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2007-08-09, 3:43 PM #12
Originally posted by Emon:
I've started working on a DF clone.


When you say clone, do you mean it will use all the DF resources (level files, scripting files, artwork, etc.)? That would be cool. Are you using XNA?
2007-08-09, 3:50 PM #13
Originally posted by Brian:
When you say clone, do you mean it will use all the DF resources (level files, scripting files, artwork, etc.)? That would be cool.

Yes.

Originally posted by Brian:
Are you using XNA?

I thought about it but didn't see much point for this project.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2007-08-09, 3:52 PM #14
So what are you using then? How much progress have you made? Are you really Mattias Welander in disguise?
2007-08-09, 4:02 PM #15
Originally posted by Brian:
So what are you using then? How much progress have you made?

C# and Mono. I have a basic virtual filesystem that supports GOBs and (partially) LFDs, developer console, INF parser and some other miscellaneous code.

Originally posted by Brian:
Are you really Mattias Welander in disguise?

No. :argh:
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2007-08-09, 4:08 PM #16
Ask the right people, you do not.

:)
2007-08-09, 6:02 PM #17
Originally posted by ZeqMacaw:
Ask the right people, you do not.

:)


Elaborate, please.
2007-08-09, 6:21 PM #18
Joncy got tired of working on sith2 for various reasons and then released the source code, and then nobody ever did anything with it ever again.
2007-08-09, 8:24 PM #19
No major challenges or issues?
2007-08-09, 8:42 PM #20
Someone needs to document JK's physics algorithms because the physics related template parameters are apparently unrelated to actor behavior and they're needed in order to make the game actually work.

If I worked on Sith2 again I'd do some minor refactoring to make the engine better. The renderer needs to be completely rewritten in order to make the engine function. I don't really want to comment further but I do encourage people to look at the renderer code to see what I'm talking about.
2007-08-09, 10:44 PM #21
Wouldn't it be easier to to take another full featured game engine, and add JK file format support?

I ask because I own the torque game engine, and have looked into doing it myself. Unfortunately, It's way over my head :argh:
Jedi Knight Enhanced
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2007-08-09, 11:28 PM #22
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Someone needs to document JK's physics algorithms because the physics related template parameters are apparently unrelated to actor behavior and they're needed in order to make the game actually work.

I'm pretty sure ZeqMacaw is rather familiar with this.


Originally posted by Jon`C:
The renderer needs to be completely rewritten in order to make the engine function.

Why not use a free middleware renderer, like OGRE? Sure, JK doesn't need much, but it's still no reason to reinvent the wheel.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2007-08-09, 11:48 PM #23
Originally posted by Emon:
Why not use a free middleware renderer, like OGRE? Sure, JK doesn't need much, but it's still no reason to reinvent the wheel.


Because using OGRE like that would be no different than using any graphics API. You can't even use OGRE's scenegraph.
2007-08-09, 11:53 PM #24
I was tinkering with the Irrlicht 3d engine and trying to add support for mats, 3dos, gobs, and jkls, but I didn't do much with it because of a lack of time and the sheer confusing methods Irrlicht uses for resource loading. I've been planning to pick it back up, but between work and school starting soon, I just don't have the time.
2007-08-10, 2:27 AM #25
There's no show-stopper with JKW (the JED rewrite) - there's just a huge amount to do and I don't have much time to work on it.
2007-08-12, 8:59 PM #26
hargle.

Heh wow I havnt been here in ages... and havnt heard of anything about this newfangled sith2.

Hm
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2007-08-12, 9:20 PM #27
Originally posted by SL_Jedi_Bubba_Fatt:
hargle.

Heh wow I havnt been here in ages... and havnt heard of anything about this newfangled sith2.

Hm


:eek:

Haven't seen you in..years..?
woot!
2007-08-14, 4:32 PM #28
Originally posted by Detty:
I think the show-stopping issue with SITH2 was that nobody knew how to do the clipping and physics code reliably.


i can do that. if someone steps up, lets do this thing
[ B A H ]
Bad *** by nature,
Hackers by choice
2007-08-14, 5:18 PM #29
Originally posted by StrikeAthius:
i can do that. if someone steps up, lets do this thing


Does that mean you are stepping up?
On a Swedish chainsaw: "Do not attempt to stop chain with your hands or genitals."
2007-08-14, 5:32 PM #30
Originally posted by StrikeAthius:
i can do that. if someone steps up, lets do this thing

thats not the hard part.

but if you want to keep working on sith2 youre welcome to.
2007-08-14, 5:43 PM #31
not what i was proposing. would have a better chance mimicking jk's gameplay by reverse engineering and modifying it. dont tell me you disagree ;)

what was up with sith2 anyway? i could get it to work but it crashed every time at some point regardless. null pointers man, check for your null pointers!! :P
[ B A H ]
Bad *** by nature,
Hackers by choice
2007-08-14, 6:14 PM #32
Originally posted by StrikeAthius:
what was up with sith2 anyway? i could get it to work but it crashed every time at some point regardless. null pointers man, check for your null pointers!! :P

the crashes on exit and crashes on level changes happened because of the way the renderer was implemented. sige decided it would be a brilliant idea to maintain an internal list of resources without incrementing the reference counter, so the renderer would crash after the resources were collected.

the other crashes are all stack overflows and those happen because of infinite recursion in my extremely basic camera physics routines. the ones i just threw in for the pre-alpha.

the effectiveness of my code is not the problem with sith2, although i am a whole lot better at it now than when sith2 was started so i dont really feel like getting back into that mess.
2007-08-14, 6:48 PM #33
You lazy bum. Think about the masses that will love you forever if you complete Sith2!

...I will, at least. :ninja:
DO NOT WANT.
2007-08-15, 12:22 PM #34
I always found that, while Sith2 in Windows would usually crash my computer, it worked well through WINE in Linux.
Why do the heathens rage behind the firehouse?

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