Massassi Forums Logo

This is the static archive of the Massassi Forums. The forums are closed indefinitely. Thanks for all the memories!

You can also download Super Old Archived Message Boards from when Massassi first started.

"View" counts are as of the day the forums were archived, and will no longer increase.

ForumsDiscussion Forum → P2P, RIAA, MPAA... Is this working??
P2P, RIAA, MPAA... Is this working??
2007-09-20, 11:26 AM #1
We all know whats going on in the world with file sharing and the anti-piracy networks. The only thing is, does anyone see all this working? They spend how much trying to bust people who can't be sued for the amount they want out of them, nor the amount they spend to catch them. I have found myself listening to less and less 'actual' music, and more and more online music (newgrounds submissions, ocremix.org, and other websites) I don't even really buy CDs or listen to the radio anymore. They have just ruined it for me. As far as movies go, I probably watch about 1/3 of what I used to. I RARELY goto the movies, and if I do see a movie, its because someone else rented/bought it.

Maybe its just me, but I kinda wish everyone would just stop using their crap (legally or illegally) for about a month and watch them fall off the face of the planet.
Quote Originally Posted by FastGamerr
"hurr hairy guy said my backhair looks dumb hurr hairy guy smash"
2007-09-20, 11:30 AM #2
There's enough idiots in the world that will keep buying their crap as long as they shovel it out and call it music. As far as I'm concerned, I buy indie music and pirate the few artists I like on major labels, but make a habit of going to their concerts or buying their swag.

The MPAA will be around a lot longer than the RIAA, because everyone loves movies, and watching on your laptop screen just isn't the same as going to the theatre.
"If you watch television news, you will know less about the world than if you just drink gin straight out of the bottle."
--Garrison Keillor
2007-09-20, 1:04 PM #3
Yeah.

I mean, it's just what has to happen. Media is going to evolve. The "mass media" concept doesn't work because we can all create our own media view.

Badly worded, but do you see what I mean?
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2007-09-20, 1:20 PM #4
I think there are far more reasons to hate the MPAA than just them going after movie pirates. That organization needs to fall in a hole and die.
omnia mea mecum porto
2007-09-20, 1:23 PM #5
Originally posted by Roach:
I think there are far more reasons to hate the MPAA than just them going after movie pirates. That organization needs to fall in a hole and die.


They aren't as bad as the RIAA.
"If you watch television news, you will know less about the world than if you just drink gin straight out of the bottle."
--Garrison Keillor
2007-09-20, 1:35 PM #6
Oh really? You can't get your movie on any mainstream theater screen in America without an anonymous group of MPAA screeners determining what rating your movie deserves, and there's not exactly a set list of guidelines to determine what rating to give. If they give your film NC-17, they basically just buried your project, and anything from sex, violence, to even sacrelege can be used to doom your project with the NC-17 rating. Has the RIAA ever stopped independent artists from releasing music at large stores?
omnia mea mecum porto
2007-09-20, 1:38 PM #7
Originally posted by Roach:
Oh really? You can't get your movie on any mainstream theater screen in America without an anonymous group of MPAA screeners determining what rating your movie deserves, and there's not exactly a set list of guidelines to determine what rating to give. If they give your film NC-17, they basically just buried your project, and anything from sex, violence, to even sacrelege can be used to doom your project with the NC-17 rating. Has the RIAA ever stopped independent artists from releasing music at large stores?


Man has a point.

The fact that a group of faceless people can apply a label that could cause your entire target audience to overlook the movie is pretty jacked up.
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2007-09-20, 1:44 PM #8
Originally posted by fishstickz:
There's enough idiots in the world that will keep buying their crap as long as they shovel it out and call it music. As far as I'm concerned, I buy indie music and pirate the few artists I like on major labels, but make a habit of going to their concerts or buying their swag.


You know, nine times out of 10, buying their swag doesn't pay back the loans the record company gave them to record their album.
2007-09-20, 1:51 PM #9
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/09/anti-p2p-compan.html

Quote:
MediaDefender, an anti-piracy and anti-P2P company that works with the entertainment industry to thwart the trading of copyrighted content on P2P networks, is experiencing Diebold flashbacks this week. The company was bit by BitTorrent on Saturday when hackers obtained more than 6,000 of the company's internal e-mails and made them available for download through the P2P network.

The damning e-mails include discussions about MediaDefender's attempt earlier this year to distance itself from a site it launched called MiiVi, which, some critics claim, was a honeypot to entrap downloaders. The e-mails also include a discussion about a possible plan the company had to use software to turn P2P users' machines into zombies designed to spit out torrents of fake content files to tie up downloaders' machines.

The e-mails, which date from September and go back six months, also contain evidence that seems to contradict a statement that MediaDefender made in July that MiiVi was meant to be an internal research project that the company hadn't intended for the public to find and use.

MediaDefender is a Southern California company that polices P2P networks and notifies content owners when their material appears on download sites. The company also seeds download channels with lots of bogus movie and music files to make it harder for users to find the real files. But according to some people, this isn't all MediaDefender has been up to.

In July members of a site called TorrentFreak accused MediaDefender of setting up MiiVi as a honeypot to entrap users who downloaded fake files masquerading as copyrighted material (the site was taken down shortly thereafter). TorrentFreak also said that client software that MiiVi offered users to speed up their downloads was spy software that rooted through a user's computer for illegal content and reported back its findings to MediaDefender.

MediaDefender President Randy Saaf denied that MiiVi was a sting site, saying it was an internal research project. He told Ars Technica that the company hadn't password protected the site because it never expected users would find it. "This was not an entrapment site, and we were not working with the MPAA on it," he said.

When Ars Technica pointedly asked Saaf why, if the company had nothing to hide, it had changed the contact info on the site's domain registration record to a proxy registration after TorrentFreak exposed it, Saaf said his staff was simply afraid a hacker would attack them or someone would send them spam.

Apparently, the move to keep hackers at bay was unsuccessful.

As P2P users furiously sifted through the leaked content over the weekend, a handful of e-mails were published online. They show various attempts by MediaDefender earlier this year to hide from "smart people" who might have connected the company to the MiiVi site:



From: Randy Saaf

Sent: Wed 6/13/2007 12:54 AM

To: Colin Keller

Cc: Ben Grodsky; Steve Lyons; Jay Mairs

Subject: miivi emails

Colin:

Set up your email so that you always reply with a ckeller@miivi.com, dmca@miivi.com, or an info@miivi.com address respectively. I don’t want MediaDefender anywhere in your email replies to people contacting Miivi. Steve and Ben can help you set up your email for this. Make sure MediaDefender can not be seen in any of the hidden email data crap that smart people can look in.

I am setting up ckeller@miivi.com to forward to ckeller@mediadefender.com.

R

Another e-mail contradicts Saaf's statement that the company hadn't intended for MiiVi to draw traffic from outside users:



Dylan,

Another thing we can do to increase Google and other search engine traffic is to get more link-ins. At the next MiiVi meeting, I’m going to ask Randy for permission to incentivize people to link-in a MiiVi video on their MySpace. Colin is already doing this and it helps the word-of-mouth spread, even if the link-ins are nominal. I’m not sure what we could do in the link-in regard early on, but getting the cumulative ~1000+ MySpace friends of MediaDefender employees to see MiiVi link-ins can’t hurt….

Colin — start coming up with a list the list of keywords and descriptors for hidden metadata entries, per Dylan’s e-mail below.

Thanks,

Ben

There's also an e-mail depicting the point at which MediaDefender realized the jig was up.



From: Ben Grodsky

Sent: Tue 03-Jul-07 20:19

To: MIIVI; Randy Saaf; Octavio Herrera; Steve Lyons

Subject: MiiVi got Dugg

Looks like the domain transfer has screwed us over: http://torrentfreak.com/anti-piracy-gang-launches-their-own-video-download-site-to-trap-people/http://digg.com/users/AcePup/news/dugg

-Ben

Randy Saaf responded, "This is really ****ed. Let's pull miivi offline."

Grodsky followed up with a memo to staff instructing them to stick to the company line about the site being a research project if anyone asked, and to be wary of spies trying to apply for a job to infiltrate the company:

From Ben Grodsky, Media Defender

Subject: care in interviewing

Given all the recent Digg, SlashDot and derivative online articles about MD, be careful what you say in job interviews. Specifically, I’m concerned about giving any information BEYOND what’s already on the mediadefender.com website. I’m worried about someone interviewing for a position just for the purpose of getting more info to post online. For example, if anyone asks anything about MiiVi, just reiterate what Randy has said online (it was an internal video project that we probably should have password protected; we were in no way directed to, or working with, the MPAA on that project; NO part of the project was a honeypot designed to trap downloaders).

The e-mails, some of which include the Social Security numbers of MediaDefender employees, were reportedly obtained by a group calling itself MediaDefender-Defenders. It's unclear if the group consists of the same people at TorrentFreak who exposed the MiiVi site in July. Attempts to reach TorrentFreak for an interview were unsuccessful.

MediaDefender-Defenders included a note with the e-mail dump explaining their reason for exposing MediaDefender's correspondence:

“By releasing these emails we hope to secure the privacy and personal integrity of all peer-to-peer users. The emails contains information about the various tactics and technical solutions for tracking p2p users, and disrupt p2p services,” and “A special thanks to Jay Maris, for circumventing there entire email-security by forwarding all your emails to your gmail account”

In addition to the purloined e-mails, the group also posted follow up data that includes a MySQL database dump from a MediaDefender server and an audio file of a VoIP conversation between a MediaDefender employee and investigators for the New York attorney general's office discussing MediaDefender's work with law enforcement to find child porn on P2P networks and track the IP address of those who post or download it. In a message accompanying that file, the hackers promise more to come:

MediaDefender-Defenders proudly presents some more internal MediaDefender stuff… more will follow when time is ready. MediaDefender thinks they’ve shut out their internals from us. Thats what they think.

Stay tuned.
<Rob> This is internet.
<Rob> Nothing costs money if I don't want it to.
2007-09-20, 4:08 PM #10
It's just a matter of time until someone creates a protocol like Bit Torrent with user anonymity in mind. It's true that the MPAA/RIAA have not really cracked down that hard on torrents yet, but the pirate community have really struck back either. And from the way it, the MPAA/RIAA have a MUCH tougher battle.
2007-09-20, 4:45 PM #11
Originally posted by Spook:
Man has a point.

The fact that a group of faceless people can apply a label that could cause your entire target audience to overlook the movie is pretty jacked up.


Movie ratings are necessary though.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2007-09-20, 7:43 PM #12
NC-17 is about as bad as an AO rating on a video game. Most retailers wont touch it.
Quote Originally Posted by FastGamerr
"hurr hairy guy said my backhair looks dumb hurr hairy guy smash"
2007-09-20, 8:03 PM #13
It's not that hard to duck as long as it's not porn.
2007-09-20, 11:08 PM #14
Originally posted by Wookie06:
Movie ratings are necessary though.


They really are, but the system is jacked up.

People take ratings as gospel, and if the reviewers don't like your movie, they can bump it up a rating level and tank it.
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2007-09-20, 11:31 PM #15
The real problem is music/moveies are instantly duplicatable.. period. And our legal system is set up to where it DOES NOT RECOGNIZE that fact AT ALL. It's so stupid.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2007-09-20, 11:58 PM #16
Originally posted by Spook:
They really are, but the system is jacked up.

People take ratings as gospel, and if the reviewers don't like your movie, they can bump it up a rating level and tank it.


Few people take ratings as gospel in that there aren't that many people who will not watch a movie because of the rating. I think they're a very good tool and like how they've expanded them over the years specifically how they list the type of content the film contains. And it seems to me that there is an appeal and review process so film makers still have some flexibility.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2007-09-21, 8:13 AM #17
Originally posted by Freelancer:
The real problem is music/moveies are instantly duplicatable.. period. And our legal system is set up to where it DOES NOT RECOGNIZE that fact AT ALL. It's so stupid.


Yeah, we should just go back to vinyl and film projection only. Everyone would be too lazy to rip that kinda stuff. Especially if you played it from one of those big conch shell lookin players you see in black and white war movies.
Quote Originally Posted by FastGamerr
"hurr hairy guy said my backhair looks dumb hurr hairy guy smash"

↑ Up to the top!