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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Raped and robbed by the justice system...
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Raped and robbed by the justice system...
2007-10-16, 7:48 AM #1
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20071012_Jill_Porter___Hooker_raped_and_robbed_-_by_justice_system_.html
Apparently after a prostitute agrees to sex with a man, if he then pulls a gun on her and forces her to have sex with several people it's not rape it's actually just "theft of services". :suicide:
Where the heck do they train these judges!?
2007-10-16, 7:52 AM #2
Almost like the Eastern Finnish "it's not rape if the alleged victim knew the alleged rapist"" system.

And damn you Americans are nuts.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2007-10-16, 7:54 AM #3
I could see two charges of theft of services / armed robbery, and several more of aggravated felonious sexual assault for everyone else that showed up..

Judges are weird. We have one up here that sounds like a defense attorney - I heard her tell a defendant that if he were to decide he wanted a lawyer (after he repeatedly refused), that the fact that he just told her in the courtroom that he had committed the crime wouldn't factor into her determination of guilt whatsoever. :suicide:
woot!
2007-10-16, 8:17 AM #4
Originally posted by JLee:
I could see two charges of theft of services / armed robbery, and several more of aggravated felonious sexual assault for everyone else that showed up..

Judges are weird. We have one up here that sounds like a defense attorney - I heard her tell a defendant that if he were to decide he wanted a lawyer (after he repeatedly refused), that the fact that he just told her in the courtroom that he had committed the crime wouldn't factor into her determination of guilt whatsoever. :suicide:


Well what if someone was trying to take the blame for someone else's crime, as for them it might be a first time offense (low/no sentence), but their accomplice might have a record already / history of committing this sort of crime which might send them down for a long time.

Not as daft as it looks if you stop and think about it. It's for a jury/magistrate to determine guilt, if it is in question.
2007-10-16, 8:34 AM #5
Originally posted by Martyn:
Well what if someone was trying to take the blame for someone else's crime, as for them it might be a first time offense (low/no sentence), but their accomplice might have a record already / history of committing this sort of crime which might send them down for a long time.

Not as daft as it looks if you stop and think about it. It's for a jury/magistrate to determine guilt, if it is in question.


I can see where you're coming from, but this dude punched a sidewalk preacher and knocked him off of his bucket. Srsly. :psyduck:

He definitely did it, and has a long history in our town. There's nothing in question.
woot!
2007-10-16, 8:51 AM #6
She decided to sell her services, so she's the one who made it theft of service and not rape. I fail to see an issue...
Warhead[97]
2007-10-16, 8:51 AM #7
the preacher deserved it.
My girlfriend paid a lot of money for that tv; I want to watch ALL OF IT. - JM
2007-10-16, 8:59 AM #8
Originally posted by BobTheMasher:
She decided to sell her services, so she's the one who made it theft of service and not rape. I fail to see an issue...


She sold her services to the first two guys...not the second two guys.

Originally posted by Ford:
the preacher deserved it.


From a legal standpoint, that's beside the point... ;)
woot!
2007-10-16, 9:04 AM #9
That's true, but she was selling it, was my point. She herself demeaned sex into a service to be bought and sold. The judge didn't do that, she did. Don't confuse this with a lack of sympathy.
Warhead[97]
2007-10-16, 9:09 AM #10
:confused:
2007-10-16, 9:21 AM #11
That doesn't make any sense. Rape is forced sex which is clearly what happened here.
Imagine if she weren't a prostitute with all the baggage that came with that. If a woman agrees to sex with a man (even if it's with two men, it's not up to us to apply our personal sexual morality on others) and that guy then pulls a gun on her and forces her to have sex, it's not rape? In fact, in this hypothetical case no money is involved so it's not even loss of earnings!? Would the guy only be brought up on gun charges!?
She entered an agreement with the man and one other to consensual sex in return for money. That's a far cry from forced sex at gunpoint.
2007-10-16, 9:23 AM #12
The guy should be charged with pulling a gun on her, but it's definitely not rape.

There's huge difference between a woman who's pulled off a street into an ally and raped, and a prostitute who tries to cheat a client. The first woman actually stands hurt beyond what physical damage may have been done during the rape.

By saying that the first is equal to the second it really takes away from the heinous nature of actual rape.
2007-10-16, 9:28 AM #13
blaming the victim
:master::master::master:
2007-10-16, 9:29 AM #14
Quote:
The friend showed up without money, the gun was pulled and more men arrived.

When a fifth man arrived and was invited to join, DeSipio said, he asked why the girl was crying - and declined. He helped her get dressed so she could leave.


There's the issue. The only part that could be considered "theft of services" is the agreement with the second guy - the other two outright raped her. And those four guys were all okay with the idea of her being raped by a fifth guy. I don't know what else I can put in italics to make this point any stronger. She was raped and the judge is a goddamn right-wing fem-nazi idiot.
2007-10-16, 9:54 AM #15
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
There's huge difference between a woman who's pulled off a street into an ally and raped, and a prostitute who tries to cheat a client.



A prostitute who tries to cheat a client... Please tell me I did not read this right. No.. wait... I did.

Obi. You are a ****ing god damn piece of scum, who has ****ing skewed point of views. Get the **** out of your house you ****ing half-witted idiotic home-schooled boy. You need to see the world, because you're obviously not used to thinking like a human being.

TRIES TO CHEAT A CLIENT? ****ING HELL!!!! She agreed to sex with 2 guys and 3 more joined in. How in the hell do you call that cheating.

You, sir, are trash. You should be raped. Matter of fact, with such a skewed mentality, I wouldn't be surprised you were raped by mom and the home teacher.

Go die in a fire. K thanks :D

Just a note, since you're too damn dumb to understand, the woman's a human being whether what she does for a living is right or not. She got raped, and thats a fact.

EDIT: Rofl grammar
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
2007-10-16, 10:02 AM #16
Originally posted by Jep:
Obi. You are a ****ing god damn piece of scum, who has ****ing skewed point of views.


lol his momma's point of views.
2007-10-16, 12:15 PM #17
Originally posted by Jep:
A prostitute who tries to cheat a client... Please tell me I did not read this right. No.. wait... I did.

Obi. You are a ****ing god damn piece of scum, who has ****ing skewed point of views. Get the **** out of your house you ****ing half-witted idiotic home-schooled boy. You need to see the world, because you're obviously not used to thinking like a human being.

TRIES TO CHEAT A CLIENT? ****ING HELL!!!! She agreed to sex with 2 guys and 3 more joined in. How in the hell do you call that cheating.

You, sir, are trash. You should be raped. Matter of fact, with such a skewed mentality, I wouldn't be surprised you were raped by mom and the home teacher.

Go die in a fire. K thanks :D

Just a note, since you're too damn dumb to understand, the woman's a human being whether what she does for a living is right or not. She got raped, and thats a fact.

EDIT: Rofl grammar



I am and evil person who is bad and wrong. I didn't real the article. Holy crap.

In related news, stupid reactions compound previous communication errors.
2007-10-16, 12:29 PM #18
At least it wasn't just some lady of the street. She probably just forgot the safety word.
Take that there and put it in here
2007-10-16, 12:31 PM #19
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
I am and evil person who is bad and wrong. I didn't real the article. Holy crap.

In related news, stupid reactions compound previous communication errors.


Nah, you're just a dumbass.
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
2007-10-16, 12:46 PM #20
Says the guy who was provoked to a fit of poorly communicated anger.

I'm just lazy. You're dumb and angry.

EDIT: Oooh! Look! I've made your signature! What a huge score off me! I'll probably live the rest of my life, the broken shell of a man, because a person on the internet dislikes me so much that he felt it was necessary to say so in his signature. That'll teach me.
2007-10-16, 12:58 PM #21
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
EDIT: Oooh! Look! I've made your signature! What a huge score off me! I'll probably live the rest of my life, the broken shell of a man, because a person on the internet dislikes me so much that he felt it was necessary to say so in his signature. That'll teach me.


:master:
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
2007-10-16, 1:11 PM #22
Originally posted by BobTheMasher:
That's true, but she was selling it, was my point. She herself demeaned sex into a service to be bought and sold. The judge didn't do that, she did. Don't confuse this with a lack of sympathy.


You are an idiot.

Seems to me that if you're forced to have sex (read: at gunpoint) under any circumstance then it's rape.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2007-10-16, 2:06 PM #23
Originally posted by Freelancer:
You are an idiot.

Seems to me that if you're forced to have sex (read: at gunpoint) under any circumstance then it's rape.


This is true, but I think we need to have different degrees of rape.

There's a big difference between say, someone who makes no attempt to entice or solicit sex and is then raped when she (or I suppose he) does so while not planning to actually participate. Granted both are very wrong, and I don't think that the second should be grounds for lenience when it can definitely be proven that the sex wasn't consensual, but rather the former should be dealt with with much more severity than it currently is.

I just think that their should be a distinction between someone who was totally innocent and someone who knowlingly invites danger, and again that would really depend on the situation. Kind of like the difference between murder in the first and second degrees.

Originally posted by Jep:
:master:


Sarcasm doesn't make it any less childish.
2007-10-16, 2:34 PM #24
wow, even in canberra where prostitution is decriminalized (heck, there is even classifieds section for them in the newspaper) we still accept that they choose who to have sex with.

and that finnish law thing. O.O, talk about old fasioned. but what else do you expect from a government who has a history of not taking very good care of its own people.
Snail racing: (500 posts per line)------@%
2007-10-16, 2:37 PM #25
I see both sides honestly. My more liberal views, combined with knowing a lot of girls who have had to go through that...situation...makes me want to say it's rape. But if you break it down to the laws, and pure reason, it's actually just theft of services. Sad, but true.
D E A T H
2007-10-16, 2:52 PM #26
Whatever happened to not insulting people? Did we just let some members ignore that rule?

I realize that rape is a horrible, horrible thing. I'm just saying that she was already breaking the law, and there's certain reasons that laws exist. She cheapened sex down to an issue of service for money! That doesn't make what the guys did any more right, but how can you compare that with what happens to women who DON'T sell their bodies, who are in the wrong place at the wrong time, or who meet the wrong guy?

I absolutely think that what the guys "stole" should be taken into full account. Put them away for as long as you can for theft of services, armed robbery, etc. I also realize that technically it IS rape, as defined as forcible sex. I just feel that a distinction within the law exists for a reason, because sex is a very special case, and when she sells it, she ****s on all of that.
Warhead[97]
2007-10-16, 2:55 PM #27
:rolleyes:
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2007-10-16, 3:00 PM #28
Originally posted by Dj Yoshi:
I see both sides honestly. My more liberal views, combined with knowing a lot of girls who have had to go through that...situation...makes me want to say it's rape. But if you break it down to the laws, and pure reason, it's actually just theft of services. Sad, but true.


I certainly understand the argument, but sex isn't a legally recognized service in just about every state in the US.
Pissed Off?
2007-10-16, 3:06 PM #29
Originally posted by Dj Yoshi:
I see both sides honestly. My more liberal views, combined with knowing a lot of girls who have had to go through that...situation...makes me want to say it's rape. But if you break it down to the laws, and pure reason, it's actually just theft of services. Sad, but true.


This justifies the judge's decision (in a somewhat twisted way - and I'm not calling you twisted, Yoshi), but I'm worried that it was Deni's attempt to grandstand against prostitution and not really based on a sound interpretation / enforcement of the law.
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2007-10-16, 3:10 PM #30
Always remember, IT'S NOT RAPE IF YOU YELL SUPRISE!
2007-10-16, 3:13 PM #31
Originally posted by Avenger:
I certainly understand the argument, but sex isn't a legally recognized service in just about every state in the US.


You know, I hadn't thought about that...I still agree with everything I said, but i think the truth is that Avenger is right...if it isn't a legally recognized service then it can't really be theft of services, no matter the mindset of the woman. The law does not see sex as a service, so even if she does, it doesn't matter.
Warhead[97]
2007-10-16, 3:13 PM #32
Originally posted by Wolfy:
This justifies the judge's decision (in a somewhat twisted way - and I'm not calling you twisted, Yoshi), but I'm worried that it was Deni's attempt to grandstand against prostitution and not really based on a sound interpretation / enforcement of the law.

True, and I agree with you Avenger, so in essence unless we're in Las Vegas it should be rape, but hell, why not charge them with everything?
D E A T H
2007-10-16, 3:15 PM #33
This is plainly rape. As a matter of fact, I think this is more obviously rape than is the case of a woman who's unable to give consent because of alcohol. I could see making a case for theft of services as an additional charge, but certainly not as the only charge. Seems to me the judge ignored the actual law because she didn't like the defendant.
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2007-10-16, 3:16 PM #34
I think adding theft of services as an additional charge would kind of be an oxymoron. In my eyes, anyway.
Warhead[97]
2007-10-16, 3:50 PM #35
i think this answers the age old question

"if you rape a prostitute is it considered shoplifting?"
eat right, exercise, die anyway
2007-10-16, 3:52 PM #36
Originally posted by DrkJedi82:
i think this answers the age old question

"if you rape a prostitute is it considered shoplifting?"


I knew I'd heard a joke about this before, but I couldn't recall the phrasing.

And yeah, Bob, I do think an additional charge of theft would be kind of silly. It still beats the hell out of not calling it rape at all.
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2007-10-16, 6:57 PM #37
its not really rape if you yell "SURPRISE!"
2007-10-16, 7:39 PM #38
Holy flirb. She was flexoring raped at gunpoint. I hate you people.
ᵗʰᵉᵇˢᵍ๒ᵍᵐᵃᶥᶫ∙ᶜᵒᵐ
ᴸᶥᵛᵉ ᴼᵑ ᴬᵈᵃᵐ
2007-10-16, 7:40 PM #39
Where did the sudden use of "Flexor" come from?
Sure he was cool, but not Kak.
(Holy Flirb? WHAT THE CHRIST?)
2007-10-16, 8:14 PM #40
Many names work, actually.
ᵗʰᵉᵇˢᵍ๒ᵍᵐᵃᶥᶫ∙ᶜᵒᵐ
ᴸᶥᵛᵉ ᴼᵑ ᴬᵈᵃᵐ
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