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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → America Finally Believes in Amnesty: For Wiretapping Telecom
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America Finally Believes in Amnesty: For Wiretapping Telecom
2008-02-13, 8:11 PM #1
You voted for these people.

From Digg:

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me, and causes me to tremble for the safety of our country. Corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people, until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the republic is destroyed." - Abraham Lincoln

Happy Birthday, Abe.
ᵗʰᵉᵇˢᵍ๒ᵍᵐᵃᶥᶫ∙ᶜᵒᵐ
ᴸᶥᵛᵉ ᴼᵑ ᴬᵈᵃᵐ
2008-02-13, 8:21 PM #2
cool
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2008-02-13, 8:24 PM #3
I don't understand what the big difference is?

Instead of them going to a court to get the order which is 99% always OK'ed immediately anyway, they're just writing a law to skip all that hoopla. And as it says, it only is allowed when the target is foreign.

Seems like the whole thing is being blown far out of proportion. While I'm no fan of wiretapping, it sure isn't the "OH GOD END OF OUR PRIVACY WE ALL WILL DIE" that people say it is.
2008-02-13, 8:29 PM #4
99%? Can you cite that?

And what constitutes as foreign? When is it okay to use this, and not okay to use this?

Even if 99% of wiretapping cases are okayed by judges, it doesn't mean that all of the wire tapping that will go on after this bill is passed will be the same as those that were passed 99% of the time before.
ᵗʰᵉᵇˢᵍ๒ᵍᵐᵃᶥᶫ∙ᶜᵒᵐ
ᴸᶥᵛᵉ ᴼᵑ ᴬᵈᵃᵐ
2008-02-13, 8:38 PM #5
[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/eb/This_Phone_Is_Tapped.jpg/450px-This_Phone_Is_Tapped.jpg]
Back again
2008-02-13, 8:41 PM #6
If it makes you feel any better, remember that true privacy can still be achieved over the internet through encryption and protocols like Tor.

Have fun with that AES256 cryptanalysis, NSA. :v:
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2008-02-13, 9:09 PM #7
Originally posted by JediKirby:
99%? Can you cite that?

And what constitutes as foreign? When is it okay to use this, and not okay to use this?

Even if 99% of wiretapping cases are okayed by judges, it doesn't mean that all of the wire tapping that will go on after this bill is passed will be the same as those that were passed 99% of the time before.


Yes, I can? Your own article said it. Something like 2000 OK'ed, 60 not.
2008-02-13, 9:27 PM #8
But the second point stands, doesn't it?
ᵗʰᵉᵇˢᵍ๒ᵍᵐᵃᶥᶫ∙ᶜᵒᵐ
ᴸᶥᵛᵉ ᴼᵑ ᴬᵈᵃᵐ
2008-02-13, 9:50 PM #9
Not from the way the article reads, no.
2008-02-13, 9:53 PM #10
Originally posted by Emon:
If it makes you feel any better, remember that true privacy can still be achieved over the internet through encryption and protocols like Tor.

Have fun with that AES256 cryptanalysis, NSA. :v:


Which is why the NSA tried to introduce a random number generator with a pattern exploit into standard use. The "good" news is that only the NSA goon who wrote the algorithm knows how to calculate the seed from a string of random numbers. The "bad" news is that it's the goddamn NSA and not all of us want a bunch of disenfranchised underpaid corrupt American bureaucrats to have access to our SSL-encrypted banking information.

Why can't you people stick to using aircraft carriers for projecting your sphere of influence?
2008-02-14, 1:25 AM #11
No, remember, it's ok. If you're not talking about anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about, Kirby.

And Abe's birthday was two days ago.
omnia mea mecum porto
2008-02-14, 1:27 AM #12
Oh America
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2008-02-14, 2:42 AM #13
I always thought America was about having your freedom protected, and the rights to do what you pleased, like owning guns, free speech, that sort of thing.

But now you have all your phones tapped. :downswords:
Sneaky sneaks. I'm actually a werewolf. Woof.
2008-02-14, 4:24 AM #14
i believe there will be a revolt. not just in the US but world wide. people will finally get fed up with corporations overtly manipulating government policy to favour both of their finances. the rest of us will be forced to pay higher and higher fees to live in urban and suburban society while rural life will be for cottagers and wealthy retirees as farmers will be forced out as corporations pay for government policy to aid their endevours in farming and mining.
at some point we're just not going to take it anymore.
2008-02-14, 4:27 AM #15
Originally posted by JediKirby:
And what constitutes as foreign?


Something not from your country?
nope.
2008-02-14, 4:34 AM #16
Oh joy, American law is different for us dirty, scary foreigners. What a fair and just system.
Seriously though, what counts as a "foreigner"? Is someone with permanent resident status a foreigner? Naturalized citizen? At what point do you suddenly get more rights?
2008-02-14, 5:23 AM #17
Originally posted by Cool Matty:
While I'm no fan of wiretapping, it sure isn't the "OH GOD END OF OUR PRIVACY WE ALL WILL DIE" that people say it is.


:suicide:


Slippery slope.
2008-02-14, 8:45 AM #18
It'd take one really good governor that calls his national guard to take down the government for anything happening on the scale, Dave.
ᵗʰᵉᵇˢᵍ๒ᵍᵐᵃᶥᶫ∙ᶜᵒᵐ
ᴸᶥᵛᵉ ᴼᵑ ᴬᵈᵃᵐ
2008-02-14, 8:52 AM #19
Originally posted by Cool Matty:
I don't understand what the big difference is?

Instead of them going to a court to get the order which is 99% always OK'ed immediately anyway, they're just writing a law to skip all that hoopla. And as it says, it only is allowed when the target is foreign.

Seems like the whole thing is being blown far out of proportion. While I'm no fan of wiretapping, it sure isn't the "OH GOD END OF OUR PRIVACY WE ALL WILL DIE" that people say it is.


It's illegal.
2008-02-14, 9:00 AM #20
Originally posted by Anovis:
It's illegal.


The government is breaking the law?!?

Call the cops!
2008-02-14, 9:34 AM #21
Originally posted by Anovis:
It's illegal.


They just made it legal.
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
2008-02-14, 9:48 AM #22
Originally posted by Jep:
They just made it legal.


No, they gave amnesty to the companies that did illegal actions in the past. In our case, wiretapping.
2008-02-14, 9:55 AM #23
Does this include individuals that might have wiretapped someone else's calls? People are companies too!
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2008-02-14, 10:32 AM #24
It's an interesting strategy... break the law, then convince those in power to amend the law and apply it retroactively.

I think it's all horsecrap, and all of you that rail against bush all the time for his crappy policies need to carefully look at how all the democrats voted on things like this, plus the war, plus the real id act, plus DMCA, etc. Hint: they are just as bad as bush is, and they erode your privacy and freedom (as well as your wallet) just as fast as bush does.
2008-02-14, 12:03 PM #25
:tinfoil:
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2008-02-14, 12:23 PM #26
This thread is wrong.

The house blocked the telco immunity bill.
"If you watch television news, you will know less about the world than if you just drink gin straight out of the bottle."
--Garrison Keillor
2008-02-14, 12:24 PM #27
no u
2008-02-14, 12:39 PM #28
Originally posted by fishstickz:
This thread is wrong.

The house blocked the telco immunity bill.


Source? If it hasn't happened in the past day, you are confused.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2008-02-14, 1:24 PM #29
Originally posted by JediKirby:
You voted for these people.


You meant we, I assume?
2008-02-14, 1:33 PM #30
Originally posted by Wookie06:
Source? If it hasn't happened in the past day, you are confused.


http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/House-Rejects-Telecom-Immunity-as-FISA-Clock-Ticks-Down-61671.html

Kirby actually posted this thread after the House blocked the bill. So nobody on this thread did their research.
"If you watch television news, you will know less about the world than if you just drink gin straight out of the bottle."
--Garrison Keillor
2008-02-14, 2:12 PM #31
And even then...

You don't have a right to privacy. The freedom from unlawful search and seizure doesn't quite cut it to protect your privacy in this case, because you don't own the phone lines.
Wikissassi sucks.
2008-02-14, 2:58 PM #32
Originally posted by fishstickz:
http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/House-Rejects-Telecom-Immunity-as-FISA-Clock-Ticks-Down-61671.html

Kirby actually posted this thread after the House blocked the bill. So nobody on this thread did their research.


Yeah, but it has nothing to do with what you posted. I have no idea what Kirby thinks it means.

The house didn't block it. The link you cite even says the house voted against extending the debates for three weeks which is a setback for Democrats.

Not that you didn't do your research. You just didn't understand what you found.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2008-02-14, 8:20 PM #33
Originally posted by Isuwen:
And even then...

You don't have a right to privacy. The freedom from unlawful search and seizure doesn't quite cut it to protect your privacy in this case, because you don't own the phone lines.


So just because no individual owns the communications infrastructure, no individual has the right to private communications? I completely disagree.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-02-14, 9:00 PM #34
No one wants to listen to you have phone sex anyways.
2008-02-15, 12:04 AM #35
Originally posted by Isuwen:
You don't have a right to privacy.


The Supreme Court has ruled otherwise. Until the Court overturns Griswold, the right to privacy is part of the law of the land.
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2008-02-15, 7:21 AM #36
Quote:
So just because no individual owns the communications infrastructure, no individual has the right to private communications? I completely disagree.
You have a right to not use a company that spies on you. Don't for a moment think I agree with the situation, I'm just pointing out the legalities.

Quote:
Until the Court overturns Griswold, the right to privacy is part of the law of the land.
Yeah, and every time Griswold is challenged, an exception is made to it.
Wikissassi sucks.
2008-02-15, 7:29 AM #37
To be honest though what are they going to do with phone tapping?

I don't think it matters if someone happens to find out what you're doing on saturday.
nope.
2008-02-15, 8:32 AM #38
If you want to know why it's dangerous, watch that episode of the Sarah Silverman show where the gay guy leaves a 'bomb' in a cop car.
Wikissassi sucks.
2008-02-15, 9:04 AM #39
You realist I'm not from your country and have no idea who that is right?

:P
nope.
2008-02-15, 1:40 PM #40
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Sarah+Silverman

But it's a terrible program.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

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