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ForumsDiscussion Forum → America's Anti-intellectualism
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America's Anti-intellectualism
2008-02-20, 10:04 AM #1
[quote=The New York Times]Dumb and Dumber: Are Americans Hostile to Knowledge?
By PATRICIA COHEN
Published: February 14, 2008

A popular video on YouTube shows Kellie Pickler, the adorable platinum blonde from "American Idol," appearing on the Fox game show "Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader?" during celebrity week. Selected from a third-grade geography curriculum, the $25,000 question asked: "Budapest is the capital of what European country?"

Ms. Pickler threw up both hands and looked at the large blackboard perplexed. "I thought Europe was a country," she said. Playing it safe, she chose to copy the answer offered by one of the genuine fifth graders: Hungary. "Hungry?" she said, eyes widening in disbelief. "That's a country? I've heard of Turkey. But Hungry? I've never heard of it."

Such, uh, lack of global awareness is the kind of thing that drives Susan Jacoby, author of "The Age of American Unreason," up a wall. Ms. Jacoby is one of a number of writers with new books that bemoan the state of American culture.

Joining the circle of curmudgeons this season is Eric G. Wilson, whose "Against Happiness" warns that the "American obsession with happiness" could "well lead to a sudden extinction of the creative impulse, that could result in an extermination as horrible as those foreshadowed by global warming and environmental crisis and nuclear proliferation."

Then there is Lee Siegel's "Against the Machine: Being Human in the Age of the Electronic Mob," which inveighs against the Internet for encouraging solipsism, debased discourse and arrant commercialization. Mr. Siegel, one might remember, was suspended by The New Republic for using a fake online persona in order to trash critics of his blog ("you couldn't tie Siegel's shoelaces") and to praise himself ("brave, brilliant").

Ms. Jacoby, whose book came out on Tuesday, doesn't zero in on a particular technology or emotion, but rather on what she feels is a generalized hostility to knowledge. She is well aware that some may tag her a crank. "I expect to get bashed," said Ms. Jacoby, 62, either as an older person who upbraids the young for plummeting standards and values, or as a secularist whose defense of scientific rationalism is a way to disparage religion.

Ms. Jacoby, however, is quick to point out that her indictment is not limited by age or ideology. Yes, she knows that eggheads, nerds, bookworms, longhairs, pointy heads, highbrows and know-it-alls have been mocked and dismissed throughout American history. And liberal and conservative writers, from Richard Hofstadter to Allan Bloom, have regularly analyzed the phenomenon and offered advice.

T. J. Jackson Lears, a cultural historian who edits the quarterly review Raritan, said, "The tendency to this sort of lamentation is perennial in American history," adding that in periods "when political problems seem intractable or somehow frozen, there is a turn toward cultural issues."

But now, Ms. Jacoby said, something different is happening: anti-intellectualism (the attitude that "too much learning can be a dangerous thing") and anti-rationalism ("the idea that there is no such things as evidence or fact, just opinion") have fused in a particularly insidious way.

Not only are citizens ignorant about essential scientific, civic and cultural knowledge, she said, but they also don't think it matters.

She pointed to a 2006 National Geographic poll that found nearly half of 18- to 24-year-olds don't think it is necessary or important to know where countries in the news are located. So more than three years into the Iraq war, only 23 percent of those with some college could locate Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Israel on a map.

Ms. Jacoby, dressed in a bright red turtleneck with lipstick to match, was sitting, appropriately, in that temple of knowledge, the New York Public Library's majestic Beaux Arts building on Fifth Avenue. The author of seven other books, she was a fellow at the library when she first got the idea for this book back in 2001, on 9/11.

Walking home to her Upper East Side apartment, she said, overwhelmed and confused, she stopped at a bar. As she sipped her bloody mary, she quietly listened to two men, neatly dressed in suits. For a second she thought they were going to compare that day's horrifying attack to the Japanese bombing in 1941 that blew America into World War II:

"This is just like Pearl Harbor," one of the men said.

The other asked, "What is Pearl Harbor?"

"That was when the Vietnamese dropped bombs in a harbor, and it started the Vietnam War," the first man replied.

At that moment, Ms. Jacoby said, "I decided to write this book."

Ms. Jacoby doesn't expect to revolutionize the nation's educational system or cause millions of Americans to switch off "American Idol" and pick up Schopenhauer. But she would like to start a conversation about why the United States seems particularly vulnerable to such a virulent strain of anti-intellectualism. After all, "the empire of infotainment doesn't stop at the American border," she said, yet students in many other countries consistently outperform American students in science, math and reading on comparative tests.

In part, she lays the blame on a failing educational system. "Although people are going to school more and more years, there's no evidence that they know more," she said.

Ms. Jacoby also blames religious fundamentalism's antipathy toward science, as she grieves over surveys that show that nearly two-thirds of Americans want creationism to be taught along with evolution.

Ms. Jacoby doesn't leave liberals out of her analysis, mentioning the New Left's attacks on universities in the 1960s, the decision to consign African-American and women's studies to an "academic ghetto" instead of integrating them into the core curriculum, ponderous musings on rock music and pop culture courses on everything from sitcoms to fat that trivialize college-level learning.

Avoiding the liberal or conservative label in this particular argument, she prefers to call herself a "cultural conservationist."

For all her scholarly interests, though, Ms. Jacoby said she recognized just how hard it is to tune out the 24/7 entertainment culture. A few years ago she participated in the annual campaign to turn off the television for a week. "I was stunned at how difficult it was for me," she said.

The surprise at her own dependency on electronic and visual media made her realize just how pervasive the culture of distraction is and how susceptible everyone is — even curmudgeons.[/quote]

discuss.
My girlfriend paid a lot of money for that tv; I want to watch ALL OF IT. - JM
2008-02-20, 10:06 AM #2
No.
2008-02-20, 10:07 AM #3
No.
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
2008-02-20, 10:08 AM #4
you guys think you're funny.
My girlfriend paid a lot of money for that tv; I want to watch ALL OF IT. - JM
2008-02-20, 10:19 AM #5
this is exactly why my coworker watches 5th Grader
people. are. stupid. in. america.
Holy soap opera Batman. - FGR
DARWIN WILL PREVENT THE DOWNFALL OF OUR RACE. - Rob
Free Jin!
2008-02-20, 10:21 AM #6
Blaming television and video games is one thing, but blaming the internet as a whole is just ignorant. Sure, some people do facebook and youtube for hours on end, but some of us use the internet to learn. I've learned about numerous topics on the internet that I never would have gone to the trouble of going to a library and researching. I realize it was just one author that the article mentioned who wrote directly against the internet, but that really struck a nerve with me.

As for the whole anti-intellectualism thing, I agree that there is a problem. I don't see an immediate solution, though. The school system makes it easy for kids to just go through the motions without actually learning anything. How do you *make* somebody want to learn, though? Isn't that something that a person should automatically desire? I think it's very much a problem of culture. It's easy to point out problems like this, but much more difficult to find solutions.
2008-02-20, 10:27 AM #7
I think all of America's problems, from schools to prisons, could be solved by having parents that actually raise their children.
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2008-02-20, 10:39 AM #8
Originally posted by Aglar:
I think it's very much a problem of culture. It's easy to point out problems like this, but much more difficult to find solutions.


Good point.

2008-02-20, 10:45 AM #9
There was a thread a couple months ago that touched the same issues. There's a trend for college students to go into impractical concentrations. In my school, the students who are children of immigrants way outnumber the students who are not in the fields of science, engineering and medicine. The white kids are all taking Asian studies or non-Western literature or art history. Can you really blame them? Sciences etc are boring, and a lot of work. Who wouldn't rather sit around and talk about how you feel about the influence of machismo in Latin-American society being a source of a lot of societal woes.

The pace of research in America is starting to slip, as well. Where once America was a scientific and innovating powerhouse, countries like Finland and South Korea are starting to expand their research and technology sectors significantly. It'll only be a matter of time before the ambitious movers and shakers in America start moving over there.
:master::master::master:
2008-02-20, 11:12 AM #10
Originally posted by happydud:
I think all of America's problems, from schools to prisons, could be solved by having parents that actually raise their children.


I agree with happydud. Forced sterilization of all women in the south and midwest.
"If you watch television news, you will know less about the world than if you just drink gin straight out of the bottle."
--Garrison Keillor
2008-02-20, 11:18 AM #11
America sure gets picked on a lot.

I want to see the percentage of Mexicans or Canadians that can locate Iraq and Saudi Arabia on a map. I'd also like to see the percentage of Europeans that can list Alabama or Maryland on a map offhand.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-02-20, 11:20 AM #12
When did it become cool to be so....not racist, but...regionalist?
Warhead[97]
2008-02-20, 11:28 AM #13
I dunno.

It's pretty lame either way.
2008-02-20, 11:32 AM #14
Originally posted by Freelancer:
America sure gets picked on a lot.

I want to see the percentage of Mexicans or Canadians that can locate Iraq and Saudi Arabia on a map. I'd also like to see the percentage of Europeans that can list Alabama or Maryland on a map offhand.


Agree 100%.
2008-02-20, 11:47 AM #15
Because, you know, knowing geographical locations is the only real way to determine how intelligent someone is.
2008-02-20, 11:49 AM #16
We're not a great deal better here either.

I'm not so hot on geography
2008-02-20, 12:20 PM #17
Originally posted by Freelancer:
America sure gets picked on a lot.

I want to see the percentage of Mexicans or Canadians that can locate Iraq and Saudi Arabia on a map. I'd also like to see the percentage of Europeans that can list Alabama or Maryland on a map offhand.


Alabama is a dumb state, most people should have forgotten it already.
"If you watch television news, you will know less about the world than if you just drink gin straight out of the bottle."
--Garrison Keillor
2008-02-20, 1:19 PM #18
Quote:
...which inveighs against the Internet for encouraging solipsism, debased discourse and arrant commercialization.


Someone is using their word-a-day calendar.
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2008-02-20, 1:31 PM #19
wolfy ftw.
Snail racing: (500 posts per line)------@%
2008-02-20, 1:33 PM #20
Quote:
I agree with happydud. Forced sterilization of all women in the south and midwest.


I also agree with happydud, but you either think you're funny or are a bigot. And you aint funny.
Wikissassi sucks.
2008-02-20, 1:54 PM #21
Originally posted by fishstickz:
Alabama is a dumb state, most people should have forgotten it already.


Case in point.
Warhead[97]
2008-02-20, 2:07 PM #22
personally i find peoples lack of interest in learning disturbing. i cant imagine what it would be like to not want to learn things, to not be interested in anything. how boring life must be for people like that. what drives them to do things?

the most exciting parts of my life are when i find a new piece of knowledge and have a better understanding of the world. if i dont understand something i'd rather do a little research than to just block it out entirely.
My girlfriend paid a lot of money for that tv; I want to watch ALL OF IT. - JM
2008-02-20, 3:39 PM #23
Ignorance is bliss.
Wikissassi sucks.
2008-02-20, 3:43 PM #24
Originally posted by Martyn:
We're not a great deal better here either.

I'm not so hot on geography

I used to have a bit more faith in the geographical knowledge of the average Brit. I took this simple knowledge test on facebook and scored an "IQ" of 121 and even then came 4th out of my friends. I guess I was living in a bit of a bubble of uni students.
Then it turned up available for all online and was the subject of a thread on another forum I go to which has a larger spectrum of the UK population. Most of the scores were in the 80s and 90s :(
2008-02-20, 3:53 PM #25
That was stupid, the map was so small even if i knew exactly where it was i could barely click closer than 100km. I got...106 or 109 or something. Here's a point: no one cares about most of those places.
Warhead[97]
2008-02-20, 3:58 PM #26
yeah, i was within 31km of dallas despite not knowing where it was, yet within 100km of st paul's cathedral despite it being visible from where I work.
Detty. Professional Expert.
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2008-02-20, 4:09 PM #27
There were american places on there? Man I didn't get any of those! haha
Warhead[97]
2008-02-20, 4:11 PM #28
There have been some terrible ads around lately. From a chorus of people in a TV commercial shouting, "It's my money, and I want it NOW!" to a poster in the subway advocating "Do what makes you happy right now," I fear that these messages in advertising actually appeal to the general population. Are Americans that hedonistic and myopic?
"Flowers and a landscape were the only attractions here. And so, as there was no good reason for coming, nobody came."
2008-02-20, 4:25 PM #29
Originally posted by Recusant:
Then it turned up available for all online and was the subject of a thread on another forum I go to which has a larger spectrum of the UK population. Most of the scores were in the 80s and 90s :(


You can't even SEE Easter Island and they might you try and spot it. I wasted so much time squinting my eyes trying to find a dot in the middle of the ocean.

Not to mention trying to pinpoint the various places in Italy is maddening.
SnailIracing:n(500tpostshpereline)pants
-----------------------------@%
2008-02-20, 4:40 PM #30
Originally posted by Anovis:
Because, you know, knowing geographical locations is the only real way to determine how intelligent someone is.


Er. In some cases, it definitely talks about how educated a person is and/or his or her determination to become educated. I doubt many people around here in college knows the capital of Wyoming off hand, mostly due to the fact no one gives a **** about that state, but it would be surprising if you don't know where London or Washington DC is.
SnailIracing:n(500tpostshpereline)pants
-----------------------------@%
2008-02-20, 5:26 PM #31
I can ballpark it, very roughly, but I'm honestly terrible with geography. It's something that I never concerned myself with in school. Only now am I starting to try and learn where places are, mainly to avoid looking stupid in the future.
2008-02-20, 6:15 PM #32
Originally posted by Echoman:
Er. In some cases, it definitely talks about how educated a person is and/or his or her determination to become educated. I doubt many people around here in college knows the capital of Wyoming off hand, mostly due to the fact no one gives a **** about that state, but it would be surprising if you don't know where London or Washington DC is.


Wyoming would be interest to people like Fishstickz, since they only have one House representative. But I understand your point.
2008-02-20, 8:38 PM #33
Originally posted by fishstickz:
I agree with happydud. Forced sterilization of all women in the south and midwest.


Hey, there's some smart people in the midwest.
Why do the heathens rage behind the firehouse?
2008-02-20, 8:52 PM #34
I got 122, though that was after ruining my score by misreading "Austria" as "Australia" and putting Andorra in Africa.
Why do the heathens rage behind the firehouse?
2008-02-20, 9:51 PM #35
Originally posted by Echoman:
Er. In some cases, it definitely talks about how educated a person is and/or his or her determination to become educated. I doubt many people around here in college knows the capital of Wyoming off hand, mostly due to the fact no one gives a **** about that state, but it would be surprising if you don't know where London or Washington DC is.


London...? California right?


Quote:
I agree with happydud. Forced sterilization of all women in the south and midwest.


Leave the jokes to the funny people.
<Rob> This is internet.
<Rob> Nothing costs money if I don't want it to.
2008-02-20, 10:22 PM #36
breaking news: people are stupid.
2008-02-20, 11:43 PM #37
Luckily for me, I know that despite my poor geography I still have a thirst for knowledge, the problem is in the growing portion of people (particularly young people) who just don't care about learning anything.

It makes you wonder at what point they thought "I am now clever enough to get through life without caring about anything else"...

Silly people.
2008-02-21, 12:02 AM #38
It's not that people begin to lack that "thirst for knowledge" or anything, they just waste it on "what diseases Lindsay Lohan has after that night with so-and-so" and "who's what's-her-**** dating this week on the OC?" I'm sure they all have about an average wealth of knowledge, if you will, it's just nothing I give a **** about.
omnia mea mecum porto
2008-02-21, 12:14 AM #39
skool iz gay
2008-02-21, 12:20 AM #40
Originally posted by Roach:
It's not that people begin to lack that "thirst for knowledge" or anything, they just waste it on "what diseases Lindsay Lohan has after that night with so-and-so" and "who's what's-her-**** dating this week on the OC?" I'm sure they all have about an average wealth of knowledge, if you will, it's just nothing I give a **** about.


Also a very good point. In fact, it's not stuff that just you don't give a flying stat about, it's stuff that nobody should.

Effing ridiculous vaccuous culture grumblemoanspitgrrrrrr.....

:suicide:
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