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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → This would be why I carry off-duty.
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This would be why I carry off-duty.
2008-05-17, 2:06 PM #1
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/17/church.shootings/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

Fortunately, he was subdued by bystanders..
woot!
2008-05-17, 2:08 PM #2
Not a good enough reason for me.
Detty. Professional Expert.
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2008-05-17, 2:09 PM #3
You're not a cop. Lee is.

I'd carry if I were a law enforcement officer when ever I could. My brother always does.
Pissed Off?
2008-05-17, 2:11 PM #4
I've got a CC and carry regardless of the fact that I'm not an officer.
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2008-05-17, 2:16 PM #5
Three people shot because he couldn't get over his ex or what she did.

I would shoot him.
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2008-05-17, 2:40 PM #6
You know, the same laws that allow you to carry weapons is how this guy got the murder weapon in the first place, right? There are good reasons for firearm rights, but this is a really really stupid argument in favor. When your girlfriend breaks up with you, I hope you remember all of your gun safety rules.
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2008-05-17, 2:53 PM #7
I'm not totally knowledgable about guns, but many rifles can only hold 2-3 shots, right? So it seems like he hit a unique person with every shot he fired. It's a good thing he was using the rifle and had to reload..
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-05-17, 2:56 PM #8
Originally posted by JediKirby:
You know, the same laws that allow you to carry weapons is how this guy got the murder weapon in the first place, right? There are good reasons for firearm rights, but this is a really really stupid argument in favor. When your girlfriend breaks up with you, I hope you remember all of your gun safety rules.


See, the difference is he was breaking the law. If the law said nobody could carry, he obviously wouldn't care. In addition, he used a rifle - that's not exactly what I carry concealed, now, is it?

Originally posted by Freelancer:
I'm not totally knowledgable about guns, but many rifles can only hold 2-3 shots, right? So it seems like he hit a unique person with every shot he fired. It's a good thing he was using the rifle and had to reload..


Some rifles hold one, some hold 30.
woot!
2008-05-17, 2:56 PM #9
Originally posted by JediKirby:
You know, the same laws that allow you to carry weapons is how this guy got the murder weapon in the first place, right? There are good reasons for firearm rights, but this is a really really stupid argument in favor. When your girlfriend breaks up with you, I hope you remember all of your gun safety rules.


We're talking about people legally being able to carry a concealed weapon, meaning they have some training and the proper permit to do so. In Lee's case, can legally carry a concealed weapon as a law enforcement officer.
Pissed Off?
2008-05-17, 2:56 PM #10
Originally posted by JediKirby:
You know, the same laws that allow you to carry weapons is how this guy got the murder weapon in the first place, right? There are good reasons for firearm rights, but this is a really really stupid argument in favor. When your girlfriend breaks up with you, I hope you remember all of your gun safety rules.


Wait, you can conceal carry a rifle?
"Flowers and a landscape were the only attractions here. And so, as there was no good reason for coming, nobody came."
2008-05-17, 2:57 PM #11
Originally posted by Bobbert:
Wait, you can conceal carry a rifle?


Apparently. Genius-level thinking here, eh?
woot!
2008-05-17, 2:58 PM #12
No kidding...
"Flowers and a landscape were the only attractions here. And so, as there was no good reason for coming, nobody came."
2008-05-17, 3:04 PM #13
Originally posted by JLee:
Some rifles hold one, some hold 30.


Well yeah but I mean the kind that most people would have. In this episode I kind of get the vibe that the guy went and grabbed his hunting rifle in the heat of the moment.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-05-17, 3:07 PM #14
Originally posted by JediKirby:
You know, the same laws that allow you to carry weapons is how this guy got the murder weapon in the first place, right? There are good reasons for firearm rights, but this is a really really stupid argument in favor. When your girlfriend breaks up with you, I hope you remember all of your gun safety rules.


Um, no. That was a rifle. IE, not conceal carry.
2008-05-17, 3:12 PM #15
I don't know what you guys are talking about. I conceal my rifle in my pants. :awesome:
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2008-05-17, 3:14 PM #16
Originally posted by Michael MacFarlane:
I don't know what you guys are talking about. I conceal my rifle in my pants. :awesome:


..I thought you were happy to see me. D:
woot!
2008-05-17, 3:31 PM #17
Originally posted by Michael MacFarlane:
I don't know what you guys are talking about. I conceal my rifle in my pants. :awesome:


Pissed Off?
2008-05-17, 3:34 PM #18
You're drawing attention away from my point. I wasn't insinuating that carry and conceal is what killed people. My argument is that the legalization of firearms for civilians is the law that allows for JLee's firearm entitlement complex, as well as this psycho's relationship fix. The argument that being able have a firearm is a good thing because there are crazy people with guns is stupid.
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2008-05-17, 3:36 PM #19
Originally posted by JediKirby:
You know, the same laws that allow you to carry weapons is how this guy got the murder weapon in the first place, right?

I can say this exact same rhetorical question over and over again if I refer to guns, knives, daggers, swords, or frickin' pencils. Guns just make it a lot easier. But if someone wants to harm or kill somebody, badly, they'll manufacture anything into a weapon.

See: prison shanks

Edit:
Originally posted by Avenger:

Ah you can never go wrong with Full Metal Jacket (there's a pun in there somewhere).
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2008-05-17, 3:38 PM #20
Wait, what? So because people are going to kill each other any way possible, we should arm everyone with easier means to kill? Gun supporters have twisted logic. Let's apply it to prison shanks. "People are going to make knives anyway. We should provide prison inmates with means to defend themselves. Knives for everyone trained in knife combat and safety."
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2008-05-17, 3:41 PM #21
Originally posted by JediKirby:
You're drawing attention away from my point. I wasn't insinuating that carry and conceal is what killed people. My argument is that the legalization of firearms for civilians is the law that allows for JLee's firearm entitlement complex, as well as this psycho's relationship fix. The argument that being able have a firearm is a good thing because there are crazy people with guns is stupid.


United States Constitution.

Read it.
woot!
2008-05-17, 3:42 PM #22
I have. I'm not saying firearms should be illegal. I'm saying that your reasoning is stupid, and disgusts me.
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2008-05-17, 3:43 PM #23
Originally posted by JediKirby:
Wait, what? So because people are going to kill each other any way possible, we should arm everyone with easier means to kill? Gun supporters have twisted logic. Let's apply it to prison shanks. "People are going to make knives anyway. We should provide prison inmates with means to defend themselves. Knives for everyone trained in knife combat and safety."

I don't see the twisted logic in that really. Everyone has a right to defend themselves. Some twisted maniac has a gun and all you have is a knife, unless you're exceptionally quick and good at throwing knives, you're dead. However, if you have a gun, you have a much more reasonable chance of surviving. I would definitely carry a gun on my person at all times (if I can do it).
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2008-05-17, 3:47 PM #24
Originally posted by JediKirby:
I have. I'm not saying firearms should be illegal. I'm saying that your reasoning is stupid, and disgusts me.


The Constitution states that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed - and my state (NH) has an even broader definition. If you're not saying they should be illegal, what are you saying? That the right to carry should be restricted? The number of right-to-carry states has increased in the last several decades, with a positive effect on violent crime.

Thinkaboutit. I'm the guy who deals with the bad guys. Typically the bad guys have guns. I think the good guys should have guns to defend themselves from the bad guys, who already have - and will continue to have them...because when you dial 911, guess what? It takes a while.

Your apparent willingness to castrate the Constitution which I swore to uphold disgusts me.
woot!
2008-05-17, 3:51 PM #25
I'm simply saying that the right to conceal and carry is not justified because of psycho killers. Conceal and Carry is simply a function of freedom. You are not a private safety enforcer. You are a public serviceman who carries in his free time.

The kind of logic you're using creates a highly polarized scenario where people feel that there are only good and bad people in the world, and that owning a firearm is a tool in that conflict of right and wrong. It removes the reality of violence, and the understanding that goodness is not defined by the entitlement to a weapon.

You are a very obvious example of that polarized, black and white thinking that leads do discriminatory weapon holders. (I'm not talking racial discrimination, but class)
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2008-05-17, 3:53 PM #26
Originally posted by JediKirby:
You're drawing attention away from my point. I wasn't insinuating that carry and conceal is what killed people. My argument is that the legalization of firearms for civilians is the law that allows for JLee's firearm entitlement complex, as well as this psycho's relationship fix. The argument that being able have a firearm is a good thing because there are crazy people with guns is stupid.


Lee's entitlement isn't complex at all. He's a law enforcement officer. As such, he can carry a fire arm while off duty. In fact, many departments encourage their off duty officers to carry, and in some, it's a requirement.
Pissed Off?
2008-05-17, 3:56 PM #27
Originally posted by JediKirby:
I'm simply saying that the right to conceal and carry is not justified because of psycho killers. Conceal and Carry is simply a function of freedom. You are not a private safety enforcer. You are a public serviceman who carries in his free time.

Just because I'm off-duty does not mean I have no authority. I'm not saying the right to carry is justified because of psycho killers. I said that is why I carry - because of the possible situations that could happen. The right to carry is justified by the Constitution of the United States, and further by the Constitution of my state.

Originally posted by JediKirby:
The kind of logic you're using creates a highly polarized scenario where people feel that there are only good and bad people in the world, and that owning a firearm is a tool in that conflict of right and wrong. It removes the reality of violence, and the understanding that goodness is not defined by the entitlement to a weapon.


You just used a whole bunch of words and said nothing.

Originally posted by JediKirby:
You are a very obvious example of that polarized, black and white thinking that leads do discriminatory weapon holders. (I'm not talking racial discrimination, but class)

I am a trained professional; think what you like.

What, exactly.., is a 'class discrimination weapon holder'?
woot!
2008-05-17, 4:01 PM #28
I don't disagree with the right to own and carry a gun, because I think the ultimate aim of society should be remove all laws because they're no longer needed.

However, if you do need to carry a gun to do your job or to feel safe I really hope that every time you put that holster on in the mornings you do it with regret and disappointment rather than eagerness. Quite frankly it bothers me when you post threads showing off your latest killing devices.
Detty. Professional Expert.
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2008-05-17, 4:02 PM #29
Kirby, get out of here you hippy leftist.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-05-17, 4:02 PM #30
Can you define everyone you come into contact with on your law enforcement job as good or bad guys? I think a perfectly good, honest, well bred individual could find themselves making a bad decision. I can also see a person who is a victim of circumstances also making a bad decision.

A people that views a thief as a demon to society will never heal the problems with that society. You define people as good and bad, and consider your ability to own a firearm as a function of that judgement call. Your judgement is pretty sound, considering you're an officer of the law. I don't think the judgement of everyday individuals is so sound.
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2008-05-17, 4:03 PM #31
Originally posted by Detty:
I don't disagree with the right to own and carry a gun, because I think the ultimate aim of society should be remove all laws because they're no longer needed.

However, if you do need to carry a gun to do your job or to feel safe I really hope that every time you put that holster on in the mornings you do it with regret and disappointment rather than eagerness. Quite frankly it bothers me when you post threads showing off your latest killing devices.


This, very much.
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2008-05-17, 4:04 PM #32
Originally posted by Detty:
I don't disagree with the right to own and carry a gun, because I think the ultimate aim of society should be remove all laws because they're no longer needed.

You and I both realize that is never going to happen.

Originally posted by Detty:
However, if you do need to carry a gun to do your job or to feel safe I really hope that every time you put that holster on in the mornings you do it with regret and disappointment rather than eagerness. Quite frankly it bothers me when you post threads showing off your latest killing devices.


I don't need to carry to feel safe. I don't always carry - and before I had a compact gun, more often that not I wouldn't carry. I don't regret carrying, and there is no disappointment nor eagerness involved. It is a tool, not a "killing device."

If it bothers you, then don't read them. :)
woot!
2008-05-17, 4:06 PM #33
Haha, we should have a knife thread so all the Brits who own cutting-edge killing devices can participate too.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-05-17, 4:07 PM #34
Originally posted by JediKirby:
Can you define everyone you come into contact with on your law enforcement job as good or bad guys?

Nope. Most people are decent, though.

Originally posted by JediKirby:
I think a perfectly good, honest, well bred individual could find themselves making a bad decision. I can also see a person who is a victim of circumstances also making a bad decision.

Yes, that is true. Look at the number of people killed by impaired drivers.

Originally posted by JediKirby:
A people that views a thief as a demon to society will never heal the problems with that society. You define people as good and bad, and consider your ability to own a firearm as a function of that judgement call. Your judgement is pretty sound, considering you're an officer of the law. I don't think the judgement of everyday individuals is so sound.

Wait, where did 'thief' come in?

I defined people as good and bad for the sake of providing a simplistic example; nothing more, nothing less.

Originally posted by Freelancer:
Haha, we should have a knife thread so all the Brits who own cutting-edge killing devices can participate too.


And cars, for the drunk drivers in the world..don't want to leave them out - remember, they kill many more people than legal firearms owners do..
woot!
2008-05-17, 4:09 PM #35
I can't imagine many Brits would have anything to post in that thread
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2008-05-17, 4:09 PM #36
... how is it a tool, but not a killing device? This is the fundamentally scary thing about your threads. Your gun can kill someone if you fire it. I trust that your training has let you know when firing it is a good idea, but your lack of respect for "the bad guys" is disturbing. I know, I know, they don't respect you and fire at you all the time, but your job isn't to be a bad guy. It's to protect citizens from decisions that can hurt others, and themselves.
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2008-05-17, 4:11 PM #37
Originally posted by Detty:
I can't imagine many Brits would have anything to post in that thread


Did they ban knives over there too?
woot!
2008-05-17, 4:12 PM #38
Originally posted by Detty:
I can't imagine many Brits would have anything to post in that thread


How the hell do you do anything? How do you cook? Does anyone fish in Britain? How the hell do you clean a fish without a knife? How do you open annoying packaging?

And.. you didn't notice the snazzy pun? .(
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-05-17, 4:14 PM #39
Originally posted by JediKirby:
... how is it a tool, but not a killing device? This is the fundamentally scary thing about your threads. Your gun can kill someone if you fire it. I trust that your training has let you know when firing it is a good idea, but your lack of respect for "the bad guys" is disturbing. I know, I know, they don't respect you and fire at you all the time, but your job isn't to be a bad guy. It's to protect citizens from decisions that can hurt others, and themselves.


Is a screwdriver a killing device? What about a pocketknife? Baseball bat? Car? More officers die in car accidents than by gunfire, but you don't see cars labeled as "killing devices."

I can't follow your reasoning here - now you're telling me that I'm not supposed to be a bad guy, and that I disrespect them as well?

If you're saying I have absolutely no respect for someone attempting cause death or serious bodily injury to myself or a third person, you're absolutely right. They will be stopped, if it is within my means to do so. I fail to understand how anyone would want any other outcome.
woot!
2008-05-17, 4:15 PM #40
Originally posted by JediKirby:
... how is it a tool, but not a killing device? This is the fundamentally scary thing about your threads. Your gun can kill someone if you fire it.


And? I consider my pocketknife a tool, but not a killing device. I can kill someone with it as well, but as stated before you can use anything to kill. We can't safety wrap society just because some hippies feel like they need to, and when you really get down to it the people that cause the problems won't give a **** that it's illegal, especially if they know that there's no opposition.

Quote:
but your lack of respect for "the bad guys" is disturbing. ... your job isn't to be a bad guy. It's to protect citizens from decisions that can hurt others, and themselves.

So... you'd rather LEOs just not shoot back? Ask the bad guys nicely to put their guns down? How is taking down someone with a gun and no desire to obey the law not protecting citizens?
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