Okay, I am a senior in high school. For the past 2 years or so, I haven't stood for the pledge of allegiance. All of my teachers have been fine with it (with some dismay from students).

Today, we had a sub, who basically bashed me in front of the whole class for not standing up.
He told me it was disrespectful to not stand, and that I should stand like everybody else.

Last time I checked, I'm pretty sure teachers can't force students to stand for the pledge.

Stupid, human is stupid. [/endrant]

Having students say the Pledge of Allegiance every day is a terrible idea. It's almost indoctrination. The students don't even think about it, they just say it. Over, and over, and over again. It takes away the meaning.

There are some social constructs that it's easier to conform to, in order to avoid confrontation.

This is one of them.

I stood because I get tired of sitting. I didn't say the pledge though.

The pledge of what now, you filthy traitors?

ollolololololololol

One of the big points of contention is that pesky "under God" phrase. What happens to a student who uses the pre-1954 "One nation indivisible"? Would he still get as ostracised as the guy who stays seated?

what's the big deal? why don't you want to stand and say the pledge of allegiance?

I never really understood that either.

i can see standing on principle, but honestly i never thought it was a big deal.

I pledge my manlove to Vin, mb and landy.

All at once.

I always stood, I just didn't recite or put my hand over my heart. Neither did a lot of my teachers. Back in my mischievous days, a friend and I always came up with ways to piss off a homeroom teacher we had that demanded we take the Pledge. So we'd put our hand over our junk, or we'd face the other way or we'd stand on our chairs and say it. But that was more out of disrespect for the teacher rather than an objection with the Pledge.

Also, we'd have a nice long prayer over the intercom every morning after the Pledge. At least you don't get that.

Do Americans say the Pledge AND do the National Anthem in the morning? Between that, morning announcements, getting settled, and prayer if it's a Catholic school, you must blow through the first 20 minutes of class easily.

All those are generally separated from class time, so you don't lose any class. Sux :saddowns:

I've never had the National Anthem recited in the morning.

It's standard here, guess it's because we don't have a pledge. We have similar issues with the word God and people refusing ("God keep our land glorious and free").

National Anthems are only sung when students are assembled, or before sporting events.

During graduation our student body president led the pledge and did that.

why not just stand and if you don't like the wording... change it. one "nation under science" or "one nation under hotdogs" im sure you could ruffle more than a few feathers that way. when i was in high school i didn't stand during the pledge of allegiance, and know what, now i wish i had. to me that pledge means my allegiance is with this country, and to me this country is its people, not whatever half arsed political party holds the majority in congress or whatever poor excuse of an administration is in control.

having said that i also believe that you certainly do have the right to NOT stand during the pledge, if thats what you choose to do. but remember just because you have the freedom to make that choice doesn't mean your entitled to not catch any flack for it.

Kid in my German class got a 3 day OSS for not standing for the pledge.

Man I love the Bible Belt.

That was a few years back though.

He never said his problem was with the "under God" part. He might just find it unreasonable that he should pledge allegiance to the country he lives in every morning. I know I do.

fair enough.

Yes, the idea of having to pledge allegiance to your country is patriotic nonsense. Besides, people should object to being forced to make any kind of pledge.

See, most people don't have any problem with patriotism. But pledging to anything when you're too young for it to count or matter or do anything but basically brainwash you before you become of-age is a very insidious and slightly evil idea.

Look at the Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Americans are given their rights soley by the sake of being American, either by birth and naturalization, and not because they pledge to it.

My catholic highschool didn't do the pledge regularly. The only time the school required it, and the national anthem and prayer, was 9/11 and every day after that there was a chance someone would be found.

fixed. or at least the intention of that quote.

Minnesota had a thing about this a little bit ago

personally, if my convictions were that way, i'd still stand to respect everyone else who wants to do it

Obviously, but that invites questions outside of the scope of the argument.

I mean I don't get it.. are you trying to make a statement by not standing? But personally it doesn't matter to me.. Where I went to school.. you could stand up.. sing along or sit down and nobody gave a f-

I guess I don't understand what point people are trying to make. Pledging every day I can understand is a little copious, but is it painful/insulting? What about singing the national anthem at a baseball game, would you stay seated for that?

Also, is it a protest against pledging every day? Against the president? against the war?

I think it's a protest against being forced to say it.

i don't remember having to say the pledge in school after 5th grade even in JROTC we didn't say the pledge

I proudly say the pledge. Well I would. If I was like eight, when teachers actually cared about it. Because my country isn't its government, it's its people, and I am proud of several of them.

This is how I look at it. Just because you may have the right to be an *** doesn't make you any less of an ***.

Look at what...the mirror?

Because I don't see not mindlessly throwing yourself into a chant that you've recited every weekday morning August-June from the time you could count and spell until the time when you're ready to go become a ****ing engineer, without any though "being an ***".

Don't get me wrong, I'm a patriot and everything, but I don't believe in the pledge. It's a stupid ritual, it's an inane take on patriotism, and I just really hate the idea of it more and more every day.

Not that you have to agree with my belief one way or another, but neither should I have to agree with yours. A lot of places still force the kids to say the pledge. Getting to know it when you're like 5 or 6 is one thing--being forced to say it for 13 years straight for 190* days out of the year is another.

You mean people actually think other people care about this? I can't say that I know anyone personally that ever gave damn.

yeah, we always had to sing the National Anthem in school too, I actually felt ashamed the other day because I was at my g/f grad ceremony and they played the anthem before the proceedings and I forgot most of the words.

The fact that people get huffy over the anthem is stupid too, especially when it's regarding the word GOD. Canada and the United States are CHRISTIAN nations, built by Christian founders and uphold Christian values, I don't go to mulsim countries and get upset when they mention Shiva or Muhammad or that other prophet, so they have no damn right to come to our country and try to change it because it does not conform to THEIR beliefs, even if your not muslim, or one of the other many religions on earth and you simply don't believe in god or don't want us to force religion on children, sure. I can understand that, thats fine.

But don't go asking us to change our anthem because you don't like the values it stood for when our nation was founded.

sorry, i ranted.

I was talking more in general, but really, it's not going to kill you to stand up. If you hate it that much go to a different school, or I guess sit down, but I can't really see how it's that big a deal.