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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Love grammar? Check out my sister's blog
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Love grammar? Check out my sister's blog
2008-09-23, 1:18 AM #1
That's right -- writing runs in the family. While I pretend to be the artsy, creative one between the two of us, my sister is the competent one when it comes to knowing how to actually write. She should, after all, since her job is to edit for a magazine. In any case, you all should check out this grammar-loving blog she does in her free time -- As Good As Your Word:

http://asgoodasyourword.blogspot.com/

Please leave comments and send her suggestions, or post them here and I'll relay them to her.
The Plothole: a home for amateur, inclusive, collaborative stories
http://forums.theplothole.net
2008-09-23, 1:44 AM #2
The first couple posts were amusing so I subscribed.
2008-09-23, 3:08 AM #3
Oh man. I am absolutely in love with your sister. I'd totally dangle my participle while splitting her infinitive.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2008-09-23, 3:11 AM #4
Originally posted by Mort-Hog:
Oh man. I am absolutely in love with your sister. I'd totally dangle my participle while splitting her infinitive.

Too bad for you she's engaged. And I best now relay anything on this thread to her second-hand...
The Plothole: a home for amateur, inclusive, collaborative stories
http://forums.theplothole.net
2008-09-23, 3:16 AM #5
Aw. Seriously, though, I love this blog.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2008-09-23, 4:13 AM #6
She's hawt too.

>.>
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Lassev: I guess there was something captivating in savagery, because I liked it.
2008-09-23, 6:18 AM #7
I still don't get "most everything" and "most all", I never hear them being said and I have no idea if they're correct or not.
Detty. Professional Expert.
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2008-09-23, 8:26 AM #8
If any of you have listened to Stephen Fry's latest podgram, you may express disgust as I enter into a similarly clichéd rant regarding the nation's school system with regards to the current state of grammar.

An lot of people of my generation (schooled in the 90s) and younger are utterly terrible at spelling at grammar, and it isn't because of laziness or text messaging or the internet or MTV or cocaine or whatever it is 'young people' do these days.
It is simply because we were never taught grammar. I have never had an English lesson devoted to grammar. Possibly because most people find it tedious and boring (and this is incompatable with the modern business-style aims-and-target teaching system of course!), and it is something that is best taught through repetition (I have similar fears over the way mathematics is taught). All the way through GCSE, the only time I learnt anything about grammar was in German or French lessons (and I didn't learn much about German or French grammar because I had to learn English grammar in those lessons!). Then, when I did my English Language A-Level, they simply expected us to know basic grammar and no-one did.

Now I'm one of a tiny minority of people that loves grammar (or should that be 'love'? I think so.), I'm an absolute stickler for it. I try not to be some arrogant grammar Nazi, but when you've learnt something in grammar you always notice it even if you don't want to. I always notice when a supermarket has a '10 items or less' queue and I know it should be '10 items or fewer'; it does make me a little angry, not because they've gotten it wrong but because they've made me notice it and made it stand out. It's silly, I know, but if it simply said '10 items or fewer' I wouldn't notice it and I'd go about my shopping perfectly happy. I have the same grief with 'it's' and 'its', I know how to use an apostrophe and I always notice when someone uses it wrong and I always will. Maybe it's something wrong with me, maybe ignorance is indeed bliss, but there's nothing I can do about it.

I understand the merits of linguistic description (rather than prescription) and it's (see!) slightly arrogant to arbitrarily designate what language is 'correct' and what is not, for language is a fluid concept and changes as society changes. Maybe one day "it's" and "its" will be interchangeable, like "who" and "whom" sort of is now (despite a clear grammatical difference).

But I can justify a certain degree of linguistic prescription rationally, for in Physics and Maths all language has very specific meaning and any degree of ambiguity must be avoided at all costs. One cannot simply rely on context to imply meaning (even the word 'imply' has a specific mathematical meaning), and a clear understanding of grammar is necessary. The difference between 'that' and 'which' is particularly important, as misuse can completely change the meaning of a sentence (and it's something that crops up frequently when describing results and methodology of an experiment).

And yet, most of my fellow Physics students know even less about language than the general population and many of them I consider to be barely literate. The difficulty they have just in constructing a sentence is worrying, and will inevitably affect the quality of science (many have failed coursework assignments not because of poor science but because of awful spelling and grammar). They will never be able to construct publishable papers.

I end this rant on a despondent note, because I don't know what can be done to rectify this, but I'm certainly worried.

If any of you wish to go through this post with red pen and correct my spelling and grammar, and highlight my hypocrisy, please feel free. I always welcome humility. :) My only defense (defence?) is that I am using Google Chrome, whose text editor has a peculiar desire to overwrite text and is responsible for many typos.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2008-09-23, 8:33 AM #9
Originally posted by Mort-Hog:
terrible at spelling at grammar


:argh:
2008-09-23, 9:05 AM #10
The first one I read.. she has to pick on Ohio
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2008-09-23, 9:12 AM #11
Hmmm... I seem to recall even Geb himself fell prey to the dangers outlined in http://asgoodasyourword.blogspot.com/2008/09/less-is-more.html just last week. ;)
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-09-23, 9:26 AM #12
I thumbed the blog on StumbleUpon, so with any luck traffic should pour in.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2008-09-23, 9:27 AM #13
Heh, I'm reading through my guidelines for report writing and a condition for an 'Exceptional' project is:

Quote:
No spelling, punctuation and grammatical errors

Maybe you ought check this with your sister, but I'm of the opinion that this ought to be "No spelling, punctuation or grammatical errors". Amirite?
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2008-09-23, 9:39 AM #14
:suicide:
free(jin);
tofu sucks
2008-09-23, 11:14 AM #15
Originally posted by Mort-Hog:
Heh, I'm reading through my guidelines for report writing and a condition for an 'Exceptional' project is:


Maybe you ought check this with your sister, but I'm of the opinion that this ought to be "No spelling, punctuation or grammatical errors". Amirite?


You're right, unless Geb's sister wanted a condition to where punctuation WITH grammatical errors to be included WITH spelling.
2008-09-23, 12:18 PM #16
Is it me or is Mort-Hog's post full of mistakes?

Also, I learned grammar in school.
2008-09-23, 12:26 PM #17
Haha, I love the one about the psychic
2008-09-23, 12:26 PM #18
grammar are good.
2008-09-23, 1:20 PM #19
Originally posted by Vin:
Is it me or is Mort-Hog's post full of mistakes?

Also, I learned grammar in school.


Like what? I accept I typed 'at' instead of 'and', but I'm pretty confident about the love/loves and defence/defense issues; I left my musings there as an example. I certainly wish I had learnt grammar. :-(
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2008-09-23, 1:51 PM #20
Yeah I have to agree with Mort, I know my grammar is ****. I wasn't really taught well or I just couldn't be bothered to pay attention in class. But really I don't care that much, it has nothing to do with my job and it doesn't really effect my life all that much. The only kind of grammar I follow is code syntax.
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2008-09-23, 2:10 PM #21
Originally posted by Z@NARDI:
Yeah I have to agree with Mort, I know my grammar is ****. I wasn't really taught well or I just couldn't be bothered to pay attention in class. But really I don't care that much, it has nothing to do with my job and it doesn't really effect my life all that much. The only kind of grammar I follow is code syntax.


affect. ;

now it has.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2008-09-23, 2:21 PM #22
Originally posted by Z@NARDI:
Yeah I have to agree with Mort, I know my grammar is ****. I wasn't really taught well or I just couldn't be bothered to pay attention in class. But really I don't care that much, it has nothing to do with my job and it doesn't really effect my life all that much. The only kind of grammar I follow is code syntax.


I find a lot of coders are really inclined to take to standard English grammar, even if later in life.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-09-23, 2:22 PM #23
Originally posted by Mort-Hog:
blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah


I honestly can't believe I read that whole thing. Srsly man... find a hobby.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Lassev: I guess there was something captivating in savagery, because I liked it.
2008-09-23, 2:24 PM #24
Originally posted by Mort-Hog:
I am using Google Chrome, whose text editor has a peculiar desire to overwrite text


Speaking of grammar, there should be a word to use in place of whose when you're talking about a thing rather than a person. Whose to describe a web browser seems strange.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-09-23, 2:34 PM #25
Yeah, that is true, it is sort of anthropomorphising Chrome but I'm not sure what the third-person possessive pronoun for non-sentient beings is. I suppose objects don't usually own other objects.

Originally posted by Sarn_Cadrill:
I honestly can't believe I read that whole thing. Srsly man... find a hobby.


Oh man! I am so sorry! I made you read?! Good lord, I can't possibly imagine your pain and suffering! In future, I'll make sure I don't ever have a thought that I cannot express in a single sentence. Or I could just remove all the vowels from my words, that should save your poor intellect from straining itself.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2008-09-23, 2:35 PM #26
I don't think there is such a word, but there ought to be.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-09-23, 2:37 PM #27
Originally posted by Mort-Hog:
Yeah, that is true, it is sort of anthropomorphising Chrome but I'm not sure what the third-person possessive pronoun for non-sentient beings is. I suppose objects don't usually own other objects.


'Whose' is actually quite correct and historical:

http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/whose-for-inanimate-objects.aspx
Also, I can kill you with my brain.
2008-09-23, 2:39 PM #28
Apparently I'm a modern complainer. :(

Don't worry, I'll make it up to you Shakespeare.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-09-23, 2:42 PM #29
Since we're on the subject of grammar oddities, I've always thought it strange when people say "You're Mike, aren't you?"

Which is literally "You are Mike, are not you?"

People twist it around and say it means "You are Mike, are you not?"

But, um, that's wrong for obvious reasons.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-09-23, 2:52 PM #30
Hehe! I've never thought of that.

But actually, if I had said
"I'd've never thought of that, had you not pointed it out"
would literally read
"I would have never thought of that, had you not pointed it out"
The contracted form seems fine (but I try to avoid "I'd've" just as personal style), but expanded form seems more cluttered. I'm not sure what, if anything, is technically wrong with it. I'd personally rearrange it to
"I never would have thought of that, ... "
which feels more natural, I think the verb should always follow immediately after would have. But I'm not sure.. Hmm!
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2008-09-23, 2:52 PM #31
Originally posted by Mort-Hog:
affect. ;

now it has.



:)

no not really
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2008-09-23, 2:53 PM #32
Originally posted by Freelancer:
Since we're on the subject of grammar oddities, I've always thought it strange when people say "You're Mike, aren't you?"

Which is literally "You are Mike, are not you?"

People twist it around and say it means "You are Mike, are you not?"

But, um, that's wrong for obvious reasons.



It follows the same pattern as Isn't and Doesn't and Weren't Wasn't.

The negation goes on the linking verb, because the question of negation/affirmation is about the preceding clause, not on the subject. You're not asking if the subject exists, rather if Mike is the subject.

What you're asking is really:

"You are Mike, are not you Mike?"

Alternate explanation:
The linking verb takes the negation, because it is really rhetorical and is grammatically swallowed because the question is:
"You're Mike, you are Mike."
Also, I can kill you with my brain.
2008-09-23, 2:55 PM #33
Ah! That makes sense. I love grammar (and, by association, Dormouse).
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2008-09-23, 2:57 PM #34
What? I couldn't hear you with your lips over Dormouse's...:master:

Edit: Seriously, if you love grammar, study a Finno-Ugric language
2008-09-23, 3:01 PM #35
Well, it sort of makes sense. I always thought the whole point of contractions is that they have a literal expansion, which obviously isn't the case in my above example.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-09-23, 3:08 PM #36
Originally posted by Freelancer:
Well, it sort of makes sense. I always thought the whole point of contractions is that they have a literal expansion, which obviously isn't the case in my above example.



It may be a historical convention:
Ie "Thou art Mike, art not thou?" is a fairly common construction in King Jamesy English.
Also, I can kill you with my brain.
2008-09-23, 3:26 PM #37
Geb the moment i met you i distinctly remember saying "shotgun sister if u got em"

i am betrayed
Code:
if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}
2008-09-23, 3:30 PM #38
Sorry man. :P
The Plothole: a home for amateur, inclusive, collaborative stories
http://forums.theplothole.net
2008-09-23, 3:34 PM #39
You know what else annoys me? When people use single or double hyphens in place of real em dashes. I've long since memorized the alt keycode: alt + 0151 (in Windows anyway).
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-09-23, 3:51 PM #40
poor free -- always annoyed.
:P
My girlfriend paid a lot of money for that tv; I want to watch ALL OF IT. - JM
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