Anyone keeping up with this? The TF2 Blog says that the update should bring the sniper in closer for combat. Sounds pretty exciting. I think it would be interesting if they gave him a boomerang, not sure what it would do, maybe steal ammo or something.

When the sniper update comes out, it will be great. 7 snipers per team!

From what I've seen in game, for every 1 good sniper player, there are 6 bad ones.

The sniper is overplayed as it is on certain maps. 2fort and Orange X3 get ruined by snipers if there is more than 2. I'm personally glad the update will not contain a better sniper rifle, the only way the sniper could be anymore cheap is if he had an always charged full-auto sniper rifle with explosive rounds.

Strange....

I don't think sniper is "cheap" as much as a "terrible team player". Well, the bad ones anyhow. You can always find ways to counter snipers, such as using spies. I never understood what about playing a sniper makes you so completely oblivious to what is happening around you. I've captured control points while a enemy sniper was 5 feet away looking into the yonder.

Or indeed awesome.

Getting a spy up to the battlements on 2fort without being flamed, shotty blasted by the engie by the spawn, or somehow otherwise checked, is a rarity. I can make it to the intel on 2fort much easier than the battlements as a spy. The easiest way for me to get to the snipers is bonk run to them as a scout and start whomping.

But 2fort is a terrible map.

2fort is the best CTF map IMO. It's perfectly balanced. Two good communicating teams can battle it out for hours for a single capture.

http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/73575

That's a better CTF map.

2fort is best when played with no more than 8vs8. It would be better, I think, if there was another way to the basement area or at least not allow ONE sentry gun to conveniently cover both entrances to the flag.

The one sentry gun is easily passable, if you use a scout to go through the courtyard and double jump + force of nature jump, you can go from the ground right into the door to the straight. Then when you come out (provided a pyro doesnt come burn you) you come up the spiral and take an immediate right (make sure you healed) it cant shoot you enough before you're at least in their front door. The only downside to this is a good NG will put his dispenser in the doorway by the 'attic' area so when you come out you're blocked and get hosed by the sentry.


That map you linked does look pretty cool, can't say that I have seen many servers playing it though...

CTF is actually really fun without engineers. Alot more engaging.

Few servers limit the amount to 1.

I play on a 32-player server exclusively. It's not uncommon to see up to 4, 5, maybe even 6 engineers on some rounds. And it's fast respawn!

The sentries still aren't overpowered. Get a couple decent demomen and you can absolutely destroy their entire defense that way.

Having more players forces you to be more team-oriented. If you run in there like an idiot, you will die, and you will die quickly. But if you push together, it becomes a nearly unstoppable force.

As for snipers, if you can't figure out how to stop a sniper, you need to play more. Soldiers, Demomen, Scouts, they all can get right in the face of a sniper even on 2fort. In other places, Spies can absolutely dominate the sniper and get away scott free, as they're typically away from any teammates that could get revenge. Pyros can toss a flare gun shot right at a sniper from any range. Even if it doesn't kill the sniper, it puts him effectively out of commission until he either gets health or stops burning. Snipers also have to pace their shots if they want to get an instant kill.

There's a lot that snipers have to put up with.

Soldiers can hurl a rocket over there sure, but that rarely hits a 'good' sniper. Demomen can't really do anything to a sniper from far away, a charged sticky will make it over there, but is equally avoidable by an experienced sniper. The scout and the pyro are probably you're only long range effective attackers of the sniper. Scouts have the ball, and/or pistol to fire with, and the pyro's flare gun, if you land the hit, is pretty effective, provided the OTHER sniper doesnt pick you off shortly after you emerge from hiding.

You need to learn how to rocket/sticky jump.



You need to learn how to dodge sniper fire. (Crouch)

You're confusing a bad level (Orange X anything) for a good level that's ruined by a perfectly legitimate team class combination.

Those levels heavily favor snipers and every other class is disadvantaged.

Hah! First off, rocket/sticky jumping from your battlements will get you headshot mid-air. Happens to me all the time. If you somehow manage to get to the other side of the bridge, popping up in front of the snipers works great, but thats if you can make it over there. Dodging one sniper isn't hard, but if there is 2+ then you're chances are almost nil unless there is a few other team members running with you out there.

I've done it with 4 snipers, effectively, every time. I think you're vastly overexaggerating the problem. All you need to do is pressure them, fire some rockets at them so they're forced to duck out of the way. Then rush down the bridge. They can't do anything about it then, even if they do manage to headshot you, it won't be a killing shot. You can do the same if you pressure them, and then rocket jump.

This isn't exactly rocket science.

Since when are headshots not killing shots? I've been headshot as a overhealed heavy and died in one hit.

Since... ever? You have to let the gun 100% fully charge before you can kill an overhealed heavy. I believe the wait time for that is something like 4-5 seconds.

On a soldier, you have to get about halfway charged. A no-charge headshot will only kill very lightweight classes, generally scouts, other snipers, and sometimes medics.

Yay for snipers, my spy fodder.

You can effing stand still disguised as a sniper and people will leave you alone.

I wish the spy-sniper had the ability to fake 'aim' the sniper rifle. People get the red flag when you're not aiming.

I found that the spy works well desquised as a demo. Since demomen aren't necessarily always blasting, and tend to lay traps and wait, you can avoid detection pretty easy.

I don't even bother worrying too much about disguises. I stick with pyro, as it's fast, and just stay cloaked as long as possible (easy if there's a lot of ammo boxes around).

Thats why I burn every Demoman I see.

Haha well you may have gotten me a few times then, most people don't though. You can usually get away with being a medic for a bit too, until someone wants you to heal them and you can't.

They get the tunnel vision.

I wouldn't say that 2fort is a terrible map, but it is one of those maps that are impossible for an inexperienced or uncoordinated team to win when the other side has their base locked down. Kind of like Goldrush 1-2. This is made even worse when you play on a big (i.e. 32 people) server and have instant respawn or similar going.

This is how TF2 was designed. After all, a tie only means you're all losers.

All the maps are like that, if the teams are unbalanced, the map can't exactly save that.

Man... now I want to go home and play. Anyone up for a small massassi group game this afternoon?

I play every night on the Intoxgaming rotation server, but it's 32-player and fast respawn, so if you're a nublet you may not want to play there :p

I have the game and still haven't played it...except for the free weekend a couple of months ago. I got slaughtered.

It's awesome JLee, is there a steam user list in the game room for massassi? *goes to check*

There is now.

Theres already a massassi group on steam, search for moi if you need added.

Damn... where have I been?

I entirely agree with everything CM said. I typically play sniper, and I'm NOT just a far class. I can snipe, then jump down from 2fort and defend a stagnant flag. I've captured a flag on the bridge several times. The speed and range of the melee weapon make him a good scout/recon character. I can't wait to see what the new updates will bring, but I'm annoyed that it's going to be nothing but sniper. They should update snipers and engineers at the same time, since they've both got lots of weaknesses, and they'll be easy to counter and encourage all classes.

The engineer already got an update of sorts. The level 3 teleports and level 3 dispensers were amazing.

I think the engie should get a personal teleporter back to his exit, a weak personal remote turret to defend him while building, and possibly a wrench that upgrades faster but makes him run slower?

Tunnel vision is one thing but becoming completely unaware of what's happening around you is another.

I've run the intel past snipers so many times who were too busy camping to notice. You still have the indication that the flag is on the move even while zoomed in.

I'd love to see upgrades to help Engineer be little more offensive. I don't think they need any more tools to help them camp. Building on the front lines and helping people to push forward is much more rewarding than sitting back 100 feet, whacking away at the gun.

I just realized I've never really played 2fort I pretty much only play on one server that only has one custom map on ("Warpath2") 24/7. Bah.