Ok, I know that JK is old and the graphics engine is much better in JA... but where's the challenge? The best part about making stuff in JK is that it's challenging. Trying to find ways to make effets is fun. JK don't have fog, so just use mip maps, or textures. Lighting sometimes sucks in JK.. so use lit textures. JA seems like a "everyone's a winner" game to edit. you CAN'T make anything that looks bad in it.

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You'd think that, but you'd be very surprised.

ok.. it's alot easier to make things look bad in JK... and it's really hard to make JK look decent... anyone could make levels for JA.. it just seems boring to me

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JK > JA

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<ubuu> does hitler have a last name?
<jipe> .. yes, Ubuu, we're racist commy nazi jews, and we hate male pattern baldness
<Professor`K> Sorry, but half-way through your logic, my head exploded

That's why editing newer games is nowhere near as fun. Any newbie could do it, and the editor does everything for you.

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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

JK has fog... it's just not like fog...

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LONG LIVE DREAMCAST!!!

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SpriteMod (JO 2003) Roger Wilco Skin

It's only natural that it becomes easy to create maps for newer games. The technology is there to help us create our vision, not to challenge us. It's the creative vision that is the hard part, not realizing it.

Good point Brian.

But sometimes it can really hinder us too. That's why 3DSMax is a great program--it's got amazing potential, but it won't do everything for you. And that's good! If you were going to build something completely off the wall, yet completely amazing, and it assumed that you were building something that you DIDN'T want to build, like say you were making a mech and it ended up looking more like the Golden Gate bridge.

It's the same theory as if A Clockwork Orange were to be written in Microsoft Word--the amount of created words in just one PAGE is enormous, and not to mention throughout the entire book. So with word always "correcting" you, it'd get frustrating and obvious you'd get farther with Notepad, fast.

Wow, that was an unexpected tangent of rantism.

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There is no signature

JA has more varied sabres, JA wins =D

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I AM NOT SKOOJ!!!

Of course Ill opt for JK, if only because I fell so deeply in love with JED. Also, I vastly prefer cog to ICARUS, as my opinion on the later wouldnt get past the censor.

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Dear lady, can you hear the wind blow, and did you know
Your stairway lies on the whispering wind.
:wq!

Just because the editor performs certain extra functions, it doesn't mean the editing is easy, especially if you are trying to build something intricate and/or massive. Would you want to bother with simple things in this case?

After all my years with editing JK, I hate that game's engine with a passion. You are so unbelievablely limited to what you can do that it can drive you mad. I haven't done enough editing with JO/JA beyond just creating player models and a few levels so I can't really say much about the potential og what you can do with those games (I know it is done with the Quake 3 engine and that engine is quite versatile but I'm mean JO/JA build of it with only game code as the only resource, not engine code.)

-- SavageX

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"...and if you don't like that, then you need to be slugged in the face repeatedly, until my hands are soaked in blood. Have a nice day!"
http://geocities.com/savagex378

My point is since JK is so well known, and you can find tutorials out there about ANYTHING... you can pretty much do ANYTHING... especially with 3do architecture and 16bit mats. and another great thing about jed is, if you don't like the saber selection, make different ones.

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JK will never look as sexy as JA or JO, but other than that, there is nothing you can't do with JK without some creativity, planning and effort.

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Kill Your Idols!

EXACTLY, BurrBoy. I've been editing the game for so long that I've become almost addicted to the godlike sensation of being able to create and control anything and everything in the gameworld.

You go ahead and try to recreate even my poor Syndicate in JA... I bet you would find challenge enough. You would find that there's plenty of stuff behind the "looks".

No matter which (reasonable) engine you are using, you can be severely challenged, if you keep your aim high enough. If you are just building boxes filled with stormtroopers... Well, then there's little challenge with either JK or JA.

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Frozen by ICARUS

What a load of BS that you could do "anything" in JK. I already said I gave up on this dinosaur of an engine because you are so limited to what you can do with it. When I say this, I'm going beyond just making a level pack or a simple weapon mod. I'm talking about trying to create a whole new game on it. I would list the limitations that you would find with this game but it simply too many to list and I'm too tired right now to write them all down.

-- SavageX

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"...and if you don't like that, then you need to be slugged in the face repeatedly, until my hands are soaked in blood. Have a nice day!"
http://geocities.com/savagex378

[This message has been edited by SavageX378 (edited August 24, 2004).]

The flaw in that example is that I can turn auto correct and spell checking OFF in MS Word. But if I want those features, I can never turn them ON in notepad.

But there comes a point where you don't need it because you can correct them yourself.

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So because it's easier to edit, Jedi Academy sucks...


...what?

I don't want to say one game is better than the other, as JK has given me some fond memories, but really, sometimes games such as JK just have to be let go.

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Do not feed the oyster.

/me feeds the oyster

the oyster likes it

why must you deny it its sacred nectar?

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Saberopus: omfq musical genuis j00 >mozart
Thrawn42689: Mozart = n00b

"I'll have whatever he's having."

The less effort it takes to make a level, the more absolute crap you'll get. Pretty crap. I've played FEW JA levels that the actual level effected gameplay. Usually, all you need is a generally open area, and nothing else matters. JK is quite different. The way JED makes level designers work adds a certain touch that JA games lack. The BSP editing has a feel which makes the archi in a level only for looks, and hardly for gameplay. While the sector engine provides a more open, and environment-based strategy that must be taken into consideration. Generally, I don't have to look many places but strait ahead, and up on a ledge in JA. While, in JK, I've got to duck down, wait for them to come out from behind a pillar, and make sure my field of view is lined up, that the side of the pool on Oasis isn't in my way from blasting someone up near the health. JA MP severelly lacks this in levels. I think that has, mostly, to do with the BSP VS Free Space editing.

JediKirby

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jEDIkIRBY - Putting the Romance back into Necromancer.
Proud Leader of the Minnessassian Council

Live on, Adam.

No, it has to do with bad designers. More people edit Quake 3 games, so there are more bad maps, it's really that simple.

Brush-based editing makes it no more difficult to make a decent level design. The problem is that it's always difficult, so very few people succeed.

I pity the pour souls naive enough to disagree with you. JK's editability over other engines starts where you can have mods and new code loaded with individual levels, as the level archives are loaded as needed. Powerful, yes, but the advantage about ends there.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

By anything, I mean't anything in the realm of the engine.

Making a new game out of JK is not in the realm of engine.

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Kill Your Idols!

Basically what BurrBoy said.

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There is no signature

From my experience, that isn't much. Only though clever "hacks" and "tricks" were people able to do things thought not possible such as the glow saber effect and muzzle flashes. However, if the engine wasn't such a hard-coded PoS, those additions could had been added in a more proper way rather than exploiting certain glitches or some crazy cogscripting.



I personally consider that a bad thing rather than a good thing about JK. It sucks that we modders had to resort to using the static.jkl and trigger messages to get new projectiles to work in all levels that don't have the projectiles in them. You are extremely limited to how you can create projectiles and other entities from the static.jkl because they are NOT synced on all computers in the game. You also can't create powerups and such using this method either. The reason I abandon the static.jkl method in FRmod Beta 9.7 because I wanted to do more advance stuff that I couldn't do with that method. In other games, you don't have to worry about this at all because they use a global object system, not this local crap like in JK. If I ever got my hands on JK's source and knew C++ to a great extent, that would be the first problem I'd like to fix first.

-- SavageX

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"...and if you don't like that, then you need to be slugged in the face repeatedly, until my hands are soaked in blood. Have a nice day!"
http://geocities.com/savagex378

[This message has been edited by SavageX378 (edited August 24, 2004).]

My opinion:

JK was fun. JO and JA were fun for sometime. Now they both suck. DF2 also sucks. MotS is actually the true JK, thus it doesn't suck.

However, Unreal-engine > *

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<landfish> FastGamerr > Satan

[This message has been edited by FastGamerr (edited August 24, 2004).]

Dark Forces was a lot of fun. Jedi Knight is my favorite game of all time, MOTS I never played much, JO Was a bunch of fun both SP/MP, and JA SP Really kinda sucked. JA Graphics were very nice though. The whole storyline for JA was bad.

JK Will always be my favorite game.

I still think, that after a while, the Doom 3 engine will replace the unreal and q3 engine.

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There is no signature

I like the graphics in UT 2k3 & 2k4 a lot better than Doom3. I think it has something to do with the fact that the textures/terrain/architecture are varied and colorful, and of course, it can actually do outdoor environments.

JK is much more fun. JK is better with every thing except graphics and sound quality. I did like those old JK sounds though. JK was original. JA used an Ultra-predictable villain, and all the voice acting sounded like it was done for 8 year olds. I can still remember cringing at the line, "Drop you laser sword Jedi!". Dumb dumb dumb