I am just curious as to who roleplays in RPGs, and who just goes in for the number-crunching, gameplay or story.

I was on the Fallout 3 boards and we were having a similar discussion. I wrote a rather long-winded example of how I roleplay in Fallout 3. I've been wondering who else does this sort of stuff. I don't expect many here at Massassi to do sp, since I view the majority here as more conventional gamers, though some definately have the imaginative power to do so. So what do you think?

What I said on the Fallout 3 boards on the subject (TLDROMGOO) :


I started off playing Fallout 3 without roleplay. My original play through was mostly getting used to the game, running around eyes wide with awe at the beauty of the game, struggling to find ammo, hording loads of crap and selling it by Fast Travelling between shops. I blasted through the game, thought the story lacked epic kapow, and frowned sadly as I stored the game away and returned to writing my novel.

A few months later, I remember the gameplay fondly, I recall the graphics and how immersive the Capital Wastelands were. I realized that my experienced lacked something important and it suddenly hit me. I had been in such a rush to beat the game and play the next one that I only bothered with the game mechanics. I stopped at the lackluster conclusion. I stopped at hording crap and caps.

One day, while work was slow, I sat down and read through some of the content on the fallout 3 wikia. I studied the skills, the S.P.E.C.I.A.L attributes, the various possibilities with a character. I tinkered with some optimized builds, then realized how easy it could be to become a master of everything, to rake in the moola, to become an unstoppable force. Where is the fun in that, really? Sure, I could be an other Master Chief T-Shirt Wearer and take on the first person shooter aspect of the game and blaze through again.

Then it hit me. I had not once used my imagination. Certainly not my first play through. Except maybe to give my character a beard and a clean cut in honor of his father. Or to look like him because Liam Neeson is the shiz, or something like that.

Character builds and growth:
I opened up Gmail Documents and started preparing a few non-optimized, character-driven builds. Oh the joy behind this pure creation! How fun it is to vizualize a path for your character, a story, a growth affected by his adventures in the wastelands. Again, however, I bumped my head against the "Its Too Easy to Max Skills Out Yo!" cieling. So I scratched off Educated and Comprehension. Oh ouch, thats a whole lot less skill points! Ayep, and it triggers a challenge, one that calls for strategy, when you select your skills.

My characters, however, now have Character(tm). When its all said and done, the limits imposed give them a sense, a purpose, a class. It gives them flesh and meat and bones and blood.

My first character, John Bishops, was more directly influenced by the game's prologue. A nice, quiet boy who spent the majority of his youth tinkering on his pip-boy and helping his father out in the medical lab. From time to time he'd head out back to shoot his bb gun, but really, with his Overseer-given tasks, he hardly had time to slip away unnoticed. So he grew to be pretty handy with computers and was rather savvy with medicine. Born from a rather charismatic father and hanging out with the Overseer's daughter, he grew a bit of a silver-tongue. So by the time he headed out the vault he had Medicine, Science and Speech tagged. His S.P.E.C.I.A.L reflected this. With 3 in strength, which I consider "humanly normal", 6 in perception, 3 in endurance (again normal for someone living underground without regular exercise), 5 in charisma, 9 in intelligence, 5 in agility and 8 in luck, it reflected my character quite nicely. Optimal build? Hell freaking no! Low agility when I intend to gun? Yaarg! Low endurance on Hard? Egawd mama! Low strength? Hullo encumberedarino!

Well who bloody gives a damn? Its John Bishop, and it fits him perfectly. It both gives in flesh and a voice to my ears.

With each level, I attempt to reflect his experience in the wasteland. I don't dump 10-15 skill points in one specific spot. Based on the guidelines and numbers I've set for myself every 5 level, I increase a selection of skills based on what he's done. If from level 2-3 he spent most of his time in Megaton conversing, helping Ol' Walter fix the water purifier, and helping Moira with her book by getting irradiated what skills would grow? Speech, medicine, repair. Lying to mister Burke to get the Fusion Pulse Charge and prove his plans to the Sheriff? I didn't "sneak" but that was a bloody sneaky sneak move on my part. A little addition to the sneak skill. I infiltrate the Super Duper Mart to get myself some food, shoot up a bunch of raiders and try to get around them to get a headshot in undetected? I might fail, but I attempted! More to sneak, more the small guns! Tried out that handy laser pistol lying on the counter? More to Energy Weapons.

(Note : I use a specific guidelines for my build, setting myself a limit for skill points. While I advance according to my character's behavior, I remain within the goals I've set myself. Doing it perfectly blindly based on experiences can work but its possible to end up with all around weak character. Its fun to gimp one's self in the name or RP and style but might not be so if it becomes frustratingly difficult to survive or kill enemies.)

Items and Scavenging :
When I go into buildings or searching, I don't horde all the crap I find that might have some value. I don't carry around three Power Armor suits. UNLESS my character is scavenging for goods and money. If he stumbles across a place while he is on a mission or travelling to another place, he's not going to just stuff his pockets unless there is something trully meaningful and unique. If I pick up guns, I try to repair the ones I have, otherwise I drop them back down.

Speaking of which, I only try to repair when its safe. I don't in the middle of combat, and I don't when I'm sneaking through a raider infested school, for example. Otherwise I try to keep my overall weight around 80ish lbs. I carry a shotgun, an assault rifle, a laser pistol, a sniper rifle and a combat knife. Nothing more, nothing less unless I think my character would go through the effort of carrying the extra weight to later experience with this new weapon.

I keep a similar mindset when it comes to medicine, wounds and incapacitated limbs. If I get wounded in a firefight I will generally pop a stimpack to ensure that I survive, but once the fight is over I will not sit there drilling my skin with needles to bring myself into perfect bodily shape. I'll try to find a safe spot, get some rest. If I got wouded limps I'll try and fix them. One day I headed down to the Minefield intent on helping Moira with her book, maybe bring her back one or two explosives. While I was able to make out the patterns and what not, I got carried away when some crazed sniper started shooting at me. I finally got a vantage point and was able to shoot him down. Whewy. However, in the heat of action I forgot where I was and hoped down from the broken roof top to land near a mind. Before I could run clear the explosive went off, ringin' the ears. That left my leg and an arm wounded. I staggered to the sniper's hideout, ensured he was dead and squatted near his bed, using a stimpack, a med-x to help endure the pain and snatched up Ol' Arkansas' Leg Brace (Yes the item is useless but this was for RP effect.) After some rest, and still feeling wounded I finished studying the minefield, disarming the street mines. I checked the homes for survivors and discovered raiders had hit the town. Sad sad life in the wastes. Finally, not feeling all that great and supporting a limp, I returned to Megaton and reported success to Moira. Oy, what a day.

The Quest and Life in the Wastes :
As he climbed out of the Vault, John Bishop had one thing in mind: finding his father and getting an answer. Why had he left? What could have possibly been worth the chaos he caused? Looking over an unfamiliar horizon with nary a lifeform in sight, he descended from a scenic outlook onto a decrepit road with only debris in sight. On one side: a broke highway. On the other : bombed-out homes. He started for Springvale in hope of coming across someone. Without luck. He scavenged some homes and suddenly he spotted the makeshift metal sign with "Megaton" painted on it. He'd read about it on the Overseer's terminal! So he huries through the streets, following the signs until finally he spots the crater-side city. There he meets a handle of curious folks, each more bizzare than the next. Chief amongst them : Moira. The every gleeful and foolishly dangerous owner of the Craterside Supply story. Good gal, but her sanity is questionable. Still this book project of her has potential. Hopefully someone with some brains will help her. For his part, John needs to find his old man and fast.

He checks out Moriarty's saloon. He meets Gob, Nova, Burke, Lucy and the man himself, Moriarty. The ******* is holding up on the information for coin! So that's how they work out here? John refuses to fall that low. After turning in Burke and saving the Sheriff from death with quick reflexes, a few stimpacks and a lot of luck, he disarms the bomb and gets some caps. When he returns to Moriarty the greedy son of a [censored] demands 300 caps! Still, John calls on the old crook's sense of fairness and manages to convince him to devulge James' whereabouts for 100 caps.

So Galaxy News Radio and downtown DC it is? Against Simms' better advice, John ventures towards the city, following his pipboy sensor and rather bland directions from the Megaton folks. On the way there, however, he is first jumped by a band of Talon Company mercs. To his surprise, and later his horror, he is saved by a Super-Mutant. The beast guns the mercs down from the distance without spotting John behind a ciment block. Still the giant edges ever closer in search of the mercs' prey. With a little tip-toeing, John manages to get behind the creature and fire a shot. The bullet grazes the hulking mutant's head but fails to kill him. The beast charges, Sledgehammer high overhead ready to hit. John finally recieves the weapon in the stomach, knocking him back. In his fall he manages to shoot the mutant dead. Still, John is severely wounded. Continuing on would be folly. He manages to stagger back to Megaton where he rests. One the way he helps a wastelander escaped raider clutch. As he spends a few days in Megaton healing, John finally decides that aiding the people of the Wastes is more important than answers. He would find his father someday, but for now, he needed to help.

So he headed for Moira's shop. Helping her with her book would be a start.

Fun :
Through and through, using your imagination, taking the time to walk instead of running through the game, making up these scenarios as they happen, and building a true in-depth character adds a whole different layer to the Fallout 3 experience. As a matter of fact, to any RPG and especially open-world ones like Elder Scrolls and Fallout. It worked especially well for me in this post-apocalyptic setting.

John Bishop is one of a handful of characters I've tried and roleplayed. My other character, Shepard, is probably my most notable one in terms of roleplay. Dubbed the Power Merc, Shepard was originally build as a power armor clad, mini-gun wielding bad ***. He left the vault angry, looking to yell at his father. He quickly discovered the harshness of the Wastelands and decided that to survive he would have to be just as ruthless. He went where the money was (his heart did not let him blow up Megaton, however). He killed Silver when she refused to hand over her money. He wiped out the Family without questions asked. Yet, it was Paladin Cross, an old friend and protector of his father, that opened his eyes. Her words, about him being a disgrace to his father, was a knife to the heart. And so he turned around, hoping to do his father proud and helped complete Project Purity, willing to sacrifice his life for the people. With luck, he survived and became one of the Wasteland's greatest heroes.

How someone can NOT roleplay when offered such a gem of a game is beyond me.

Now I'm hoping to get my hands on Fallout 3 for the PC so I can mod and create my own quests and stories. I miss modding Oblivion...

No.

No, but it's an intriguing idea to limit yourself on items, keep a realistic weight.

The first time I played JK I accidentally joined a roleplaying server. I was confused at first. Then I realized it was dumb and boring and I left.

No point in playing JK if you can't shoot people.

I agree that roleplaying in JK is pretty effing dumb

I know a guy that does almost nothing but RP in JA, his xfire has thousands of hours logged on those stupid RP servers.

Nope, and I love SP gaming too. But I love to win more.

Roleplaying in SP by myself seems like a sad affair.

I don't exactly roleplay, since all my characters seem to be another version of me. Because I'm like that.

But I HATE the idea of minmaxing. Easy games are boring games.

I don't see why its a sad affair. It works the imagination and its fun. I'm not talking aloud or dressing up to play. Neither am I a pathetic lonely dweeb; I'm probably one of the more social (in real life) people on massassi. I just give my character a personality and let it guide me some, instead of crappy game mechanics. Makes the experience a whole lot more fun.

Of course, open-world type rpgs are pretty much the only place where I do that. RPing in a game like JA or JK or Halo or even Bioshock (which is borderline) is as ridiculous as it gets.

In this case though, I find it enhances the Fallout experience.

But hey, to each their own. I don't go saying you're a shallow, imagination-less mawster cheeeeefff fanboy because you don't like to roleplay.

If role-playing in MMOs is lame, role-playing in SP is even lamer.

plus most games reward you for meta-gaming

I pretty much only play/enjoy JRPGs which means there's almost zero roleplaying and it's more like an interactive movie (which I prefer)

I am a completionist before I am a role player. My first time playing Fallout 3, I made a power player, and experienced every single inch of the story (and as I posted, was unimpressed).

Then, as with Oblivion, I made 3 or 4 of my favorite roles, and did almost verbatim what you described above, avoiding excessive health use, recognizing the implications of my actions, attempting to follow the roads in cities to seem like a normal patron. I like using specific weapons and keeping them as my prized item, collecting trophies and meaningful items, not the most valuable or useful items (without jeopardizing space, of course.) It's also fun to bring in a character from another franchise. Play Fallout 3 as Rorschach.

Its like reading a book, and instead of scoffing at all of the fantastic elements, you instead invest yourself and really READ it. When roleplaying in a game like Oblivion, Fallout 3, System Shock, or Bioshock, I feel like I'm experiencing an emergent narrative story that absolutely no one else will or could experience, even though they played the same game.

rping is quite fun.

Right on. That's pretty much how I feel about it.

I'm pretty much the same as Tony. The first time I play through an RPG I always play as myself. Obviously this is a version of myself that has way more courage and the ability to make important decisions, but mostly similar. The next few times I play after that I'll experiment more with different paths.

I've never played the evil path in a game, I just can't bring myself to do it. One day I might, I imagine it will be in the next Elder Scrolls game. Or the next game of the caliber of Baldurs Gate 2 or Planescape: Torment (which could very well be never).

I'm the opposite, I usually play dark side, playing nice isn't as much fun

I generally feel my conscience tweak when I do evil things in games, which is why I tend to play as good people. My brother tends to play the good side nowadays, but his argument is that the evil choices in games are never rewarded or fleshed out to the extent of the good choice.

Playing evil can be fun, but I too usually feel my conscience twitch. I remember when I played KOTOR for the first time. I went the evil route and for the most part it wasn't bad. Until I mind controleld Zalbaar into killing Mission Vao. I felt beyond mortified afterwards.

I'm not big on women dying, regardless whether its fiction or not. Kind of the white knight in me, I guess. So when I cause their death in a game, I don't enjoy it.

I always play as if the character in the game is myself, and all my skill choices line up to be what I would want to be. As for dialogoue and good/evil, I always play good. I just can't help it.

Dear God I agree totally with Tibby.

I too will usually go for the good choice, not bringing myself to do the evil.

I genuinely feel bad killing a digital rabbit.

Two of the achievements in Fable 2 are for kicking a chicken a certain distance and for shooting a rabbit. Chicken kicking I find slightly funny but the rabbit killing made me feel bad.

I got the chicken one eventually, seeing as you HAVE to get it.

I murdered entire cities in Assassin's Creed. **** roleplay, roleplay is for roleplaying games. No, Fallout is not a roleplaying game. It's a first person shooter. DnD is a roleplaying game. You know, the one where you sit at a table with other people?

I see your troll and call your bluff.

You get Renegade points in Mass Effect for shooting monkeys

And that's why it sucked.

lol glittering gems of hatred

You can't roleplay in a singleplayer computer game, period. Because you can do N actions. And if your character would do something outside of those N actions, too bad. You're ****ed.

And your restrictions differ when it's multiplayer how?

They don't. Which is why the whole concept is absurd.

Agreed.

They differ, because in a multiplayer game such as a table top rpg you can do anything you can describe. Your actions are limited by your own intelligence and whether or not your DM is a douche, not by technology.

Haven't in a while, but used to with WoW when I was on a roleplaying server. Then I joined the navy, went to boot camp and school and when I got back to my computer everyone I knew was gone. So I changed to a non-rp server, and haven't really role played since, except on occaision.

dang. I miss video games. Anyone want to send me a laptop? >.>

:downs:

Because someone can't do whatever on their own.

Try keeping your mediums constant in your ****ty arguments.

I'm sure, thanks due to the colorful land of the internet, you would find a person or persons to cooperatively facilitate whatever fantasy in online games. You can call me Munich McNoimagination but I don't see how someone could really, truly engage in a SP game with lifeless NPCs who repeat the same lines of dialog over and over. It's great a game can feel atmospheric, but it will always feel staged and scripted thanks to no real human interaction.

But you are free to do whatever. I enjoy STALKER but I don't see myself living in the game. Even if I tried or drugged myself, the NPCs always do the same thing and follow the same paths, and natural human curiosity will lead you into pits of radiation. On a related note, I don't see myself ever honestly RPGing in Bethesda-crafted games thanks to the ridiculously cold, mechanical STARE the creators gave to each and every NPC which renders any attempt to bond with them easily futile.

It's a troll, Just let it go.

JM isn't a troll, he's just an arsewipe.