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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Did anyone ever see Band of Brothers?
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Did anyone ever see Band of Brothers?
2004-08-27, 11:07 PM #41
My favorite men in the company were Malarky and Garnier(sp?)<= The one who was friends with Joe Toye and got his leg blown off for helping Joe in Bastogne.

Then it was Lipton, Winters,and Frank Perconte

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Live and Let Live
"Too bad stupidity doesn't actually kill"

"No fear. No distractions. The ability to let that which does not matter truly slide."^"I say never be complete...I say let's evolve." ** Fight Club**
2004-08-27, 11:23 PM #42
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BobTheMasher:

Are you sure you watched the same series? I almost find that offensive. Of COURSE it's a weepy opening, it's about WORLD WAR II. And what do you mean glossing over the shooting of unarmed people? I can't recall any instances of "glossing over" anything like that...could you specify? I'll recognize whatever you mention, I've seen it 3 times at least, and have the DVDs.
</font>

Long response ahoy!

A weepy stringy sentimental opening is indeed a better and mores sensible option than the prospect some jingoistic brass-section-laden blastathon. But the tone comes off as overly manipulative. If it had lyrics I'd almost see them as something like "Oh, loook at these pooor poor young meeeen. Thrust into PERIL, PERIL I SAY. Awaaaaay from their homes, to Europe, to fight the goooood fight to defend the liberty of the people of the freeee WOOOOOORLD. Seee how they CARED for each other". This is just my opinion, but I see it as unnecessarily sensationalistic and melodramatic pandering. A good step better than Saving Private Ryan's extended Stars'n'Stripes hymn thingie and clumsy bookends with the veteran. In general, I think it just would've been a braver and better choice to just start off with a title card, leading into the fascinating preface interviews, instead of this type of emotional foreplay, so that I can have the liberty of making up my own mind instead of being handed everything on a silver platter. The series is strong enough to set it's own tone, even the scoring for the rest of the series is relatively sparse, with no soundtrack for any of the combat scenes.

Glossing over might be the wrong wording, but what I meant was: Why should I sympathize with a character who commits crimes such as this? Why should I at all like the Speirs character after the cigarette incident? Why should I feel any less disgust at him than at the French soldiers in one of the later episodes who execute some soldiers by the roadside? The Winters character at least shows some remorse over the killing of the adolescent soldier at the crest of the ridge, even though the real circumstances of the situation was quite different and more justifiable (the soldier threw a grenade at him, Winters threw a dud grenade back at him, forgetting to remove the tape around the handle, and shot him while the soldier was looking for cover). Then, after the action, he gives the trooper who seems eager to kill off some prisoners only one round of ammunition to guide them back to the lines.

I just feel this mild hypocrisy over how the series portrays rather serious crimes. The series has a fascination for showing such events, yet it doesn't take a stance as it neither justifies it nor condemns/punishes these. In the cigarette incident, for instance, in the second episode, where one of the prisoners speaks english, they are all standard Wehrmacht soldiers. Yet, in the next episode, where the killings are actually shown, suddenly they're prominently wearing SS uniforms. An honest continutity mistake or an attempt at gaining sympathy?

While it is rather bold, and should be applauded for the courage to portray that allied soldiers were not beyond committing such acts, why should I feel any warmth for these characters as the series never really goes into any depth to attempt to explain such behaviour (other than the character who had been informed of the death of his brother, or the escaped labour-camp commander being found later). I just see it as a big missed opportunity.

By and large, I found it a very well-made series and look forward to seeing what the new miniseries will be like. These two things are really the only things I can think of nitpicking about. Otherwise it's a brave, finely produced, intriguing, credible, and meritful series, like many other HBO productions. Superior to Saving Private Ryan in any case. In particular the Blythe, Bastogne medic, and final episode were particularly memorable as great episodes.

If you're really fascinated by the series, you should go read this page , if you haven't already, which runs an interesting commentary by a historian. Starting on the third page he goes into an episode by episode commentary, confirming what is true, where liberties have been taken, filling in a whole bunch of holes, criticizing some decisions, but mostly applauding the series. It has some interesting parts, among others about how the real Speirs never said the "already dead" thing.

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Worth a million in prizes, baby.
If it breaks, you get to keep both pieces.
2004-08-28, 12:01 AM #43
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daeron the Nerfherder:
If you're really fascinated by the series, you should go read this page , if you haven't already, which runs an interesting commentary by a historian. Starting on the third page he goes into an episode by episode commentary, confirming what is true, where liberties have been taken, filling in a whole bunch of holes, criticizing some decisions, but mostly applauding the series. It has some interesting parts, among others about how the real Speirs never said the "already dead" thing.</font>



Interesting enough it seems, after reading the pages from the link you posted, that you got a lot of your ideas from the page.

"Before that scene, several men are shown recalling events of D-Day, with visualized flashbacks of Lt Speirs and the infamous cigarette incident. Although that allegedly happened on D-Day (in the film) and we saw that the PW victims were regular German Army troops, suddenly in this visualization, the victims become mostly Waffen SS troops. There were no Waffen SS troops in contact with the 101st on D-Day, and the men talking about Speirs didn't learn what a combat SS uniform looked like until later that day (June 12th) at the earliest. Just wondering why the substitution of German troop types for that visualization? Was this to make the audience more sympathetic to Speirs ("What the hell, they were just SS bastards anyhow")?" <= excerpt from the BoB link

Regardless the man at the website makes some very good points, and as stated earlier I feel everyone has a right to their opinons.

Thanks for posting the link, it's good to read more infointo the story and see many of the men with the actors who portrayed them, was well as in real life pictures. It's kinda of sad seeing the group shots, knowing that many of those men died in combat.

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Lets finish it then, let us be rid of it...I can't carry it for you Mr. Frodo, but I can carry you...Come on!

"Life Is What Happens While You're Busy Making Other Plans..."

"This new diet's liquid and dulling to the senses and it's crude, but it will do..." Dashboard Confessional

Live and Let Live
"Too bad stupidity doesn't actually kill"

"No fear. No distractions. The ability to let that which does not matter truly slide."^"I say never be complete...I say let's evolve." ** Fight Club**
2004-08-28, 12:40 AM #44
The page did bring bring quite a few thoughts to my attention, and while I'm not denying that reading the Ambrose book (borrowed from the library) after having seen it the first time, and finding the site and reading through it while YLE showed the series a second time haven't affected my opinion (For instance, no, I wasn't aware of the uniform switch during the first time, until the second time they screened it after reading the pages), I was surprised that the page didn't have nearly as adverse an effect as I would've expected. It just made me not take all the depictions of the events of the series quite as much for granted, and increased my respect for everyone involved for how much they did do, and that the series didn't take advantage of the material and run off with some non-objective agenda of some sort other than trying to make the series as presentable and viewable as possible.

Even though the overbearing opening and the cold-blooded killings bothered me the first time through, I'd say that the site, the book by Ambrose, and the series complemented each other quite well and give a more complete picture the second time through and it grew on me even more than the first screenings. It just reaffirmed how good a series it is/was and how much effort they put into it. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]

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Worth a million in prizes, baby.
If it breaks, you get to keep both pieces.
2004-08-28, 7:39 AM #45
They really over emphisized the prisoner killings. That kind of stuff rarely happend.
2004-08-28, 7:51 AM #46
Just going by the series, no one ACTUALLY knew what happened, who shot them and why. It seems pretty obvious to me why there is a difference between when it happened and when they flashback, sort of. It's showing the soldiers exaggerating the event. Does it say in the book whether or not Spiers actually killed them, or what?

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WOOSH|-----@%

[This message has been edited by BobTheMasher (edited August 28, 2004).]
Warhead[97]
2004-08-28, 8:41 AM #47
Yeah, I was going to say the same thing as Masher there.

No one actually saw Speirs kill those men, it might have been one of the guards there (just like one of the flashbacks show).

Plus Speirs never admitted or denied it when people asked him.
"You were probably a result of sabotage."
2004-08-28, 9:36 AM #48
nm

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The easiest way to kill a soldier is to make his commanding officer a politician.

[This message has been edited by Kieran Horn (edited August 28, 2004).]
Democracy: rule by the stupid
2004-08-28, 10:30 AM #49
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BobTheMasher:
Just going by the series, no one ACTUALLY knew what happened, who shot them and why. It seems pretty obvious to me why there is a difference between when it happened and when they flashback, sort of. It's showing the soldiers exaggerating the event. Does it say in the book whether or not Spiers actually killed them, or what?

</font>



I dont recall the book ever actually mentioning that event. I'll take a look when I have some free time though, and post what I find (if someone else doesnt beat me to it).


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And everything under the sun is in tune, but the sun is eclipsed by the moon...
DSettahr's Homepage
2004-08-28, 11:17 AM #50
Yeah, I was curious as to if he ever did the killings as well. I'll just wait and see if any of you know that info.

Hm, I really got to read those books

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Lets finish it then, let us be rid of it...I can't carry it for you Mr. Frodo, but I can carry you...Come on!

"Life Is What Happens While You're Busy Making Other Plans..."

"This new diet's liquid and dulling to the senses and it's crude, but it will do..." Dashboard Confessional

Live and Let Live
"Too bad stupidity doesn't actually kill"

"No fear. No distractions. The ability to let that which does not matter truly slide."^"I say never be complete...I say let's evolve." ** Fight Club**
2004-08-28, 12:06 PM #51
The Spiers event is still somewhat disputed today. No one actually saw him shoot the prisoners and he never admitted to doing it except to Major Winters many, many years later.

As for the portrayal in the series, I feel that they portrayed it the way the solders in Easy would have felt about it at the time. It was ambiguous because no one, except Spiers, knew for sure what happened. Furthermore, the scenes that showed allied troops shooting prisoners were there because it happened. It shows that the Allied soldiers were not perfect by any means. Same goes for the looting scenes and the scene where they shoot the suspected Nazi Commendant. You aren't supposed to like things like that. They are supposed to get your emotions rolling

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.
Pissed Off?
2004-08-28, 12:09 PM #52
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Avenger:
The Spiers event is still somewhat disputed today. No one actually saw him shoot the prisoners and he never admitted to doing it except to Major Winters many, many years later.

As for the portrayal in the series, I feel that they portrayed it the way the solders in Easy would have felt about it at the time. It was ambiguous because no one, except Spiers, knew for sure what happened. Furthermore, the scenes that showed allied troops shooting prisoners were there because it happened. It shows that the Allied soldiers were not perfect by any means. Same goes for the looting scenes and the scene where they shoot the suspected Nazi Commendant. You aren't supposed to like things like that. They are supposed to get your emotions rolling

</font>


I agree, I love the series and I liked how they went about everything.

Oh, so he did admit it to Winters. Damn that's crazy. thanks for posting that info [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]



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Lets finish it then, let us be rid of it...I can't carry it for you Mr. Frodo, but I can carry you...Come on!

"Life Is What Happens While You're Busy Making Other Plans..."

"This new diet's liquid and dulling to the senses and it's crude, but it will do..." Dashboard Confessional

Live and Let Live
"Too bad stupidity doesn't actually kill"

"No fear. No distractions. The ability to let that which does not matter truly slide."^"I say never be complete...I say let's evolve." ** Fight Club**
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