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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → update on: Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act
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update on: Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act
2009-08-20, 10:33 AM #1
update on: Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act

so this has now taken effect at least in California. and yes clove cigarettes are included in this ban. i found this out when i went into a liquor store and tried to buy a pack of Djarum's and was told they were no longer being sold anywhere.

this is so stupid, it is turning into another prohibition.

:argh:
Welcome to the douchebag club. We'd give you some cookies, but some douche ate all of them. -Rob
2009-08-20, 10:38 AM #2
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2009-08-20, 10:39 AM #3
Hi. Welcome to June. Will you be staying long?
2009-08-20, 10:47 AM #4
I hate arbitrary, disconnected bans based on scare tactics and random statistics.
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2009-08-20, 11:11 AM #5
They banned smoking at my university (campus-wide), which while I don't necessarily agree with, I understand the arguments of secondhand smoke. However, I found it even worse that they banned chewing tobacco for NO reason.
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2009-08-20, 11:14 AM #6
It's only the start
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2009-08-20, 11:17 AM #7
Yeah, they banned smoking at my school the other day too. It's only a ploy to get more funding and improve image.

Before they had a smoking shed in the back, now it's just an eating area that no one visits.
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2009-08-20, 12:19 PM #8
Originally posted by TimeWolfOfThePast:
They banned smoking at my university (campus-wide), which while I don't necessarily agree with, I understand the arguments of secondhand smoke. However, I found it even worse that they banned chewing tobacco for NO reason.


I don't understand what you mean about understanding the arguments of secondhand smoke. Even if anyone was to concede any negative effects they have pretty much already relegated smokers to out of doors where there is no issue what so ever. To ban it outright is a disgusting intrusion upon personal liberty.

At least chewing tobacco is legitimately disgusting. Spit and used tobacco all over the place. Blech.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2009-08-20, 12:28 PM #9
My university serves about 25,000 students. Going from class to class can get pretty congested and some people don't want to walk behind someone who is smoking. It doesn't bother me at all, but that's how I understand their argument. Chewing tobacco only affects the user, not anyone around them. Also chewing tobacco isn't that popular to warrant a ban - I haven't walked to class and slipped in spit puddles from them nor have I ever seen someone doing it on campus. The move to ban it on campus was a huge PR move than anything health related - as is seen in the billboards they put around town and banners on their website that say "We're tobacco free!"
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2009-08-20, 1:04 PM #10
Originally posted by JediKirby:
I hate arbitrary, disconnected bans based on scare tactics and random statistics.


Because 90% of the ingredients in tobacco products aren't proven carcinogens or anything.

:rolleyes:
"They're everywhere, the little harlots."
-Martyn
2009-08-20, 1:09 PM #11
Who cares? We don't have nationalized healthcare - if they wanna suck cancer it's their problem, and the government shouldn't be telling them NAO.
2009-08-20, 1:10 PM #12
Quote:
We don't have nationalized healthcare


yet.
"They're everywhere, the little harlots."
-Martyn
2009-08-20, 1:14 PM #13
Originally posted by Onimusha:
Because 90% of the ingredients in tobacco products aren't proven carcinogens or anything.

:rolleyes:


Cigarettes are legal, the ones that taste good are not. Stop arguing about health issues in a rights issue thread.
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2009-08-20, 1:22 PM #14
Well said.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2009-08-20, 1:23 PM #15
Ban tobacco, legalize marijuana.
:awesome:
Stuff
2009-08-20, 1:27 PM #16
Originally posted by JM:
Who cares? We don't have nationalized healthcare - if they wanna suck cancer it's their problem, and the government shouldn't be telling them NAO.


Is it your opinion that having nationalized healthcare gives the government the right to regulate smoking and, therefore, other behaviors it deems hazardous to good health?
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2009-08-20, 1:31 PM #17
The reason these laws are passing is because the only ones who give a crap one way or the other are the smokers, which are decidedly a minority of the population.
2009-08-20, 1:42 PM #18
Isn't that called a prejudice? There's a difference between banning marginalized behaviors and limiting the harm one person's behavior can have on another.

Why are people so careless and comfortable to allow their government to ban anything?
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2009-08-20, 1:44 PM #19
BAN CIGARETTES! The tobacco industry has been killing Americans for years and years! Their business model: Get people addicted! If McDonalds came out with a new burger that (a) got you addicted, (b) greatly increased your risk of cancer, and (c) released toxins into the air affecting those around you, do you think they'd be able to sell it?! NO!

The only reason you're upset about this ban is because you're a smoker. You should be THANKING the government. Stop wasting money, stop killing yourself.

(I'm a smoker too.)
2009-08-20, 1:46 PM #20
I don't smoke cigarettes or cloves.
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2009-08-20, 1:49 PM #21
Originally posted by JediKirby:
Cigarettes are legal, the ones that taste good are not. Stop arguing about health issues in a rights issue thread.


I'm not arguing any issue.. I'm just calling out your bull**** claim that factual information is "random".




And for once, I agree with vinny.
"They're everywhere, the little harlots."
-Martyn
2009-08-20, 2:05 PM #22
i certainly am not a smoker (i was trying to buy cloves for my wife, who smokes about 3 a week) and i find this to be absurd. the government has now told me that I, as an adult, cannot decide for myself what "flavor" of tobacco i can and cannot inhale... this is bull****! and no the tobacco company does not kill anyone! the people who have CHOSEN to smoke are killing themselves. again saying that the tobacco industry, in this day and age is responsible for killing people is like saying that the company BIC that makes those wonderful ball point pens is responsible for me being a crappy writer.
Welcome to the douchebag club. We'd give you some cookies, but some douche ate all of them. -Rob
2009-08-20, 2:05 PM #23
Originally posted by Cool Matty:
The reason these laws are passing is because the only ones who give a crap one way or the other are the smokers, which are decidedly a minority of the population.


I agree and disagree. This is one of those issues where the people that presume they are not affected might not care much. Taxes are raised on cigarettes but that only affects the smokers. Smoking areas are restricted or closed but that only affects the smokers. But it doesn't only affect the smokers. Do you think if everyone quit today the lost tax revenue would be acceptable to the various levels of government raking in the tax revenue now? No, they would have to raise taxes on another group to replace it.

I have always been a non-smoker but I always feel "refreshed" to walk into an establishment where I am still given the freedom to choose from the smoking or non-smoking sections. Hell, I'll pick smoking if the wait is shorter (which, coincidentally, ensures that fewer people are actually smoking in said establishment).
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2009-08-20, 2:13 PM #24
Originally posted by Darth_Alran:
i certainly am not a smoker (i was trying to buy cloves for my wife, who smokes about 3 a week) and i find this to be absurd. the government has now told me that I, as an adult, cannot decide for myself what "flavor" of tobacco i can and cannot inhale... this is bull****! and no the tobacco company does not kill anyone! the people who have CHOSEN to smoke are killing themselves. again saying that the tobacco industry, in this day and age is responsible for killing people is like saying that the company BIC that makes those wonderful ball point pens is responsible for me being a crappy writer.


Your analogy is flawed. Bic pens are not naturally harmful. Their main intention is meant as a writing tool.

Cigarettes on the other hand are naturally carcinogenic, and their main intention is to be smoked. Thus directly effecting the human body negatively. Cut the head off the serpent and you will have the best results, self choice has never been humanity's strong point.
"They're everywhere, the little harlots."
-Martyn
2009-08-20, 2:19 PM #25
Originally posted by Darth_Alran:
i certainly am not a smoker (i was trying to buy cloves for my wife, who smokes about 3 a week) and i find this to be absurd. the government has now told me that I, as an adult, cannot decide for myself what "flavor" of tobacco i can and cannot inhale... this is bull****! and no the tobacco company does not kill anyone! the people who have CHOSEN to smoke are killing themselves. again saying that the tobacco industry, in this day and age is responsible for killing people is like saying that the company BIC that makes those wonderful ball point pens is responsible for me being a crappy writer.


You can still by flavored tobacco. Just not flavored cigarettes.
2009-08-20, 2:22 PM #26
I don't know what I was thinking before. You're right, the government should ban cigarettes, they're nothing like ball point pens. While we're on the subject of banning, I had an idea:

Boxing is a dangerous sport and should be outlawed. The boxing federations are greedy companies that use the bodies of boxers as toys in a disgusting cock fight that results in broken bones, and sometimes death.

We should feel comfortable banning this barbaric game. Along with it, football, rugby, wrestling, and all forms of martial arts will be banned because people aren't responsible enough to handle these kinds of things.

Do we really want to condone violence for our kids? All of their fancy clothes, big money deals, and movies are just a ploy to get your kids to become boxers and make them money.
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2009-08-20, 2:23 PM #27
That's a terrible analogy too.
2009-08-20, 2:24 PM #28
CM, God love ya, but I think you should sell Massassi to the Daily Kos. Most of the discussions would fit right in over there.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2009-08-20, 2:36 PM #29
along with the revelation that both kirby and i make terrible analogies, there is this revelation: you apparently have zero ability to look past minutia and grasp a larger point.

however, so as not to turn this into an "ad hominem" argument. (i know how much everyone here loves to point out fallacy flaws in arguments)

the point is not whether or not cigarettes, or ball point pens or boxing are bad for you, the point is it is up to the individual to live their life responsibly and as long as your not harming someone else in doing so (murder and such) it is NOT the governments place to be our god damned nanny!
Welcome to the douchebag club. We'd give you some cookies, but some douche ate all of them. -Rob
2009-08-20, 2:40 PM #30
Originally posted by Darth_Alran:
the point is not whether or not cigarettes, or ball point pens or boxing are bad for you, the point is it is up to the individual to live their life responsibly and as long as your not harming someone else in doing so (murder and such) it is NOT the governments place to be our god damned nanny!


Yes, but the modern liberal considers these things to cause harm to others for various reasons such as the cost to society for caring for the infirmed due to their smoking and other things of a similar nature.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2009-08-20, 2:41 PM #31
Someone actually said ball-point pens are bad?
2009-08-20, 2:42 PM #32
Quote:
Is it your opinion that having nationalized healthcare gives the government the right to regulate smoking and, therefore, other behaviors it deems hazardous to good health?
Gives them the right? No. NOTHING gives them that right. Will be used to take that right? ...maybe.
2009-08-20, 2:44 PM #33
Originally posted by JM:
Gives them the right? No. NOTHING gives them that right. Will be used to take that right? ...absolutely.


Fixed.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2009-08-20, 2:45 PM #34
Originally posted by Tiberium_Empire:
Someone actually said ball-point pens are bad?


I DID!!! they are out to get us! they leak and ruin our shirt pockets! and as you know clean shirt pockets are essential to happiness later in life!
Welcome to the douchebag club. We'd give you some cookies, but some douche ate all of them. -Rob
2009-08-20, 3:44 PM #35
Originally posted by Wookie06:
Yes, but the modern liberal considers these things to cause harm to others for various reasons such as the cost to society for caring for the infirmed due to their smoking and other things of a similar nature.


Which is odd as the libs in the US claim to the be champions of individual rights.
Pissed Off?
2009-08-20, 4:06 PM #36
Originally posted by Avenger:
Which is odd as the libs in the US claim to the be champions of individual rights.


That's why many conservative thinkers are now calling "liberals" by the more accurate term "statists". The classical definition of liberal is just so antithetical to what it has come to mean now in American politics.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2009-08-20, 8:33 PM #37
Originally posted by Avenger:
Which is odd as the libs in the US claim to the be champions of individual rights.


Everyone claims to be the champion of individual rights, but they are idiots who don't have any inkling of a systematic ideology and are therefor inconsistent weasels.
2009-08-20, 8:42 PM #38
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
...inconsistent weasels.


sounds like a punk band
Welcome to the douchebag club. We'd give you some cookies, but some douche ate all of them. -Rob
2009-08-20, 9:15 PM #39
Originally posted by Darth_Alran:
I DID!!! they are out to get us! they leak and ruin our shirt pockets! and as you know clean shirt pockets are essential to happiness later in life!


Big ballpoint.
2009-08-21, 6:50 PM #40
bullets dont kill people, slugs propelled by gunpowder ignited by a primer do.

>.> <.<

amidoinitrite?
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