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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Gandhi
Gandhi
2009-10-02, 2:05 AM #1
A happy birthday to him. The world would have been a very different place without him.


Then again, I'm Indian..

2009-10-02, 7:20 AM #2
[http://www.google.fi/logos/gandhi09.gif]

Google for the win.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2009-10-02, 9:12 AM #3
I can respect his influence, but man was he wrong. I don't think anyone can ever be more dangerously wrong than that guy.
Warhead[97]
2009-10-02, 10:22 AM #4
Little known fact: he was actually a complete racist ******
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2009-10-02, 10:23 AM #5
Originally posted by BobTheMasher:
I don't think anyone can ever be more dangerously wrong than that guy.

That's pushing it a bit. Remember that guy from Germany that didn't get into art school? ...yeah
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2009-10-02, 10:37 AM #6
Originally posted by Emon:
That's pushing it a bit. Remember that guy from Germany that didn't get into art school? ...yeah


Who would that be?
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2009-10-02, 10:48 AM #7
I do remember that guy (What was his name again? Hooter? Man, it's on the tip of my tongue), but Gandhi's ideas are the kinds of ideas that allow THAT guy to go as far as he did. In fact, if more people listened to Gandhi, he'd probably have been able to go much much further. If good does not resist evil, then evil will prevail.
Warhead[97]
2009-10-02, 10:51 AM #8
Originally posted by Krokodile:
Who would that be?


His name was Godwin I think
2009-10-02, 10:53 AM #9
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2009-10-02, 11:26 AM #10
Well played sir
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2009-10-02, 11:35 AM #11
UHF is the best movie ever
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2009-10-02, 5:23 PM #12
I would watch Gandhi II.
2009-10-02, 5:29 PM #13
I wonder how many humorless people complained about that.
2009-10-02, 6:33 PM #14
Originally posted by BobTheMasher:
I do remember that guy (What was his name again? Hooter? Man, it's on the tip of my tongue), but Gandhi's ideas are the kinds of ideas that allow THAT guy to go as far as he did. In fact, if more people listened to Gandhi, he'd probably have been able to go much much further. If good does not resist evil, then evil will prevail.


India's situation was nothing like Poland's or France's during World War II.

But yes, you're right. (I'm going to say something uncharacteristic for me.) Sometimes compromise of moral integrity, values like non-violence, and any other ethical constructs is absolutely, unequivocably unavoidable. Which forces a person to make decisions they may not be able to live with. I know this firsthand, now.

But this doesn't diminish those rare times at which compromise is avoided at the expense of great personal sacrifice. Let's just bask in this rare moment, please.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2009-10-02, 8:13 PM #15
I know India's situation was different, but I was referring more to this:

"Hitler killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher's knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs. As it is, they succumbed anyway in their millions."

He thought that this would have been a great statement to alert the world to Hitler's crimes. Alert the world to do what? Also offer themselves to the butcher's knife? No, someone has to fight. It would have been better if the Jews had resisted MORE, not LESS.

Anyway, you're right about the moment, so proceed. ;)
Warhead[97]
2009-10-02, 8:53 PM #16
Right, that's a pretty dimwitted thing to say. He also advocated many other things most would find repulsive. Nobody's perfect; Gandhi was as flawed as the rest of us. There is no 'should have' about it, especially when lives are at stake. Allowing them to make their own decisions is the wisest thing to do in any case.

But, he performed the great feat of independence from an empire without firing a single shot, and this act is what the day is all about. You can dig up dirt on anyone. The greater a person is canonized, like Gandhi, the more outrageous his dirt seems, but it doesn't make it so. He did a lot of bad things in his life, just like everyone else.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2009-10-02, 11:22 PM #17
Non-violent resistance only worked for Gandhi because the British people had very sympathetic values. If you non-violently resist people who don't care, you will be markedly less successful.

I'm sure there probably were people who tried to non-violently resist the nazis, but no one has ever heard of them because the nazis just killed them, and probably had a good chuckle over it while they were at it.
2009-10-03, 9:28 AM #18
Originally posted by Emon:
That's pushing it a bit. Remember that guy from Germany that didn't get into art school? ...yeah
There's a much longer list of good things that happened because of Hitler than good things that have happened because of Gandhi.

Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
Non-violent resistance only worked for Gandhi because the British people had very sympathetic values.
On the contrary: non-violent resistance only worked for Gandhi because it was accompanied with the threat of immense widespread violence. If the British 'let' Gandhi die they'd have lost the country anyway. It's nice to think that he was a pacifist but... no. No he wasn't.
2009-10-03, 9:46 AM #19
Jon'C comes to educate the entire world about anything and everything.
2009-10-03, 10:59 AM #20
Originally posted by Jon`C:
There's a much longer list of good things that happened because of Hitler than good things that have happened because of Gandhi.


Could you elucidate that a little more? I'm fairly ignorant about Gandhi beyond the basic story that he helped India reach independence via civil disobedience (which came from America's own Henry David Thoreau).
Anyway, I don't really see how you can say that the man was worse, or "did less good" as you strangely put it, than Hitler?
2009-10-03, 11:07 AM #21
Originally posted by Recusant:
Anyway, I don't really see how you can say that the man was worse, or "did less good" as you strangely put it, than Hitler?


I can't say exactly what Jon`C is alluding to, but theres a big difference between worse and "caused less good things to happen"
You can be a horrible human being and do horrible things and still end up helping the world in some way, you could unite the whole world against you, resulting in world peace once you have been taken out.

It's likely that that's what Jon`C is on about (not my example obviously, but something like that)
You can't judge a book by it's file size
2009-10-03, 11:12 AM #22
Originally posted by Jon`C:
On the contrary: non-violent resistance only worked for Gandhi because it was accompanied with the threat of immense widespread violence. If the British 'let' Gandhi die they'd have lost the country anyway. It's nice to think that he was a pacifist but... no. No he wasn't.



Resistance could have been easily crushed, if loss of civilian life was not a problem. I won't deny that that wasn't a big issue, but I'm really doubt that Japan would have cared either way.
2009-10-03, 11:31 AM #23
I'm thinking Jon is more thinking about the development of new technologies during the war, some of which were adapted from weaponry to livingry.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2009-10-03, 11:34 AM #24
Originally posted by Deadman:
It's likely that that's what Jon`C is on about (not my example obviously, but something like that)
Yes.

Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
Resistance could have been easily crushed, if loss of civilian life was not a problem. I won't deny that that wasn't a big issue, but I'm really doubt that Japan would have cared either way.
Resistance could have been easily crushed? Are you sure Gandhi was that unpopular?
2009-10-03, 4:16 PM #25
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00n7sf1/Gandhi_The_Making_of_the_Mahatma/
Code:
if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}
2009-10-03, 4:27 PM #26
Originally posted by Ruthven:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00n7sf1/Gandhi_The_Making_of_the_Mahatma/



Quote:
Currently BBC iPlayer TV programmes are available to play in the UK only


:(

2009-10-04, 12:11 AM #27
So the Internet hates Gandhi now?
Why do the heathens rage behind the firehouse?
2009-10-04, 1:45 AM #28
The internet hates and loves all
You can't judge a book by it's file size
2009-10-04, 7:47 AM #29
Please enlighten me, I'd really like to know. What did Gandhi do that was so bad? I've only heard about nice things.
It took a while for you to find me; I was hiding in the lime tree.
2009-10-04, 11:36 AM #30
Originally posted by UltimatePotato:
Please enlighten me, I'd really like to know. What did Gandhi do that was so bad? I've only heard about nice things.

1.) The consequences of a person's actions are not restricted by their own intentions.

2.) x > 0 and x > y does not imply y < 0
2009-10-04, 2:46 PM #31
So just because India gained independence without a lot of bloodshed doesn't mean that Gandhi was a saint. Gotcha. What's your actual beef with him? Quite a few people so far have expressed very negative opinions of him.
It took a while for you to find me; I was hiding in the lime tree.
2009-10-04, 2:50 PM #32
Originally posted by UltimatePotato:
So just because India gained independence without a lot of bloodshed doesn't mean that Gandhi was a saint. Gotcha. What's your actual beef with him? Quite a few people so far have expressed very negative opinions of him.


2.) x > 0 and x > y does not imply y < 0
2009-10-04, 2:52 PM #33
... because Jon'C and others have expressed negative opinions of Gandhi does not imply that Gandhi was a bad dude? Is that closer?
It took a while for you to find me; I was hiding in the lime tree.
2009-10-04, 3:07 PM #34
Originally posted by UltimatePotato:
... because Jon'C and others have expressed negative opinions of Gandhi does not imply that Gandhi was a bad dude? Is that closer?
Hitler's legacy is a lasting peace between the former colonial powers, the vindication of Woodrow Wilson, and the elevation of Germany to a position of respect and leadership in Europe. Gandhi's legacy is a return to form for an extremely harsh caste-based society. If I claim Hitler prompted more positive reform than Gandhi, does it mean I am claiming that Gandhi was a bad person? x > 0, x > y => y < 0?
2009-10-04, 3:18 PM #35
wilson was a paranoid racist *******.
My girlfriend paid a lot of money for that tv; I want to watch ALL OF IT. - JM
2009-10-04, 3:59 PM #36
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Hitler's legacy is a lasting peace between the former colonial powers, the vindication of Woodrow Wilson, and the elevation of Germany to a position of respect and leadership in Europe. Gandhi's legacy is a return to form for an extremely harsh caste-based society. If I claim Hitler prompted more positive reform than Gandhi, does it mean I am claiming that Gandhi was a bad person? x > 0, x > y => y < 0?


Oh, I was asking in a broader scope than your hitler comment. Bobthemasher and emon said he was dangerously wrong and racist, and I figured you were in the same boat.
It took a while for you to find me; I was hiding in the lime tree.
2009-10-04, 4:12 PM #37
Ghandi
:master::master::master:
2009-10-04, 4:34 PM #38
YES WE GANDHI
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.

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