This is mainly concerning digital download games/movies on consoles.

I think the concept is horrible. Take the PSPgo for instance, you spend $250 on a console, and then buy games for it that you really don't even own because you can't resell or trade them as you please. People are giving up their property for convenience. If games go 100% digital in the next generation, I guess I'll abandon consoles all together.

Anyone else?

I love Steam. FWIW.

I'm not overly familiar with the console world, and was not aware that there was such thing as a PSPgo.

Steam is great IMO, but the only reason I think it works so well is because PC games are worthless in a few months once they are pirated/cracked ect. So there's not much of a point in having discs/boxes around unless its a classic.

I like the current mix. Big releases on disc that I can play through then sell on, and smaller Indie releases that I can download that I'm more likely to have just sat around on my HDD because they typically take up less space.

The problem is, they want to go ALL digital... At least Sony is pushing it hard. Then again, Sony hasn't done the best job in the console world this time around.

Steam is the *exact* same thing you're talking about with the psp go. Once you have the game, you can't sell it, you can't trade it, you are stuck with it and it's stuck to you (unless they decide to unstick it for some reason).

This isn't a function of digital media, this is a function of DRM. It's perfectly possible to release a game that's not locked to a specific person, or a game that has licenses that are transferable, but they don't want you to do that. They don't want you to buy it, play it, and then sell it to your friend, they want your friend to buy it from them.

Which is what I said above, it works for PC because games become worthless anyway, but console games hold minor value due to the lack of mainstream pirating. As for the DRM, its a load. If they want to force us (or at least me) to buy only from them ever, then they're going to have to lower prices by something of 60% for me to even consider it.

My argument is always this. People who are buying console digital games now, are going to be SOL when two generations from now, the hardware support wont be there, the servers hosting these files wont be there, and your money isnt just depreciated in a game you no longer play, its literally gone completely. At least if you have old NES carts laying around you no longer play you can still sell them for a few bucks.

Yeah, I like having a disc for my consoles because they have resale value. Gamestop will buy them back. They won't buy my pc games, so I usually go with the download. Although, I gotta quick impulse buying on steam.

Anyone ever play Starseige, Rebellion or Homeworld?

Do you remember the AWESOME supplementary materials that came with them? Big boxes with big color manuals. Ah, those were the days.

However, one cannot deny the convenience of digital downloads. No CD to lose, no keys to manage, can load up any PC and put your games there (I'm referring to steam).

My big gripe is nowadays empahsis on graphics and asthetics as opposed to gameplay. I'm playing Deus Ex for the first time, and I don't mind the way it looks at all. Companies have finite budget, time, and skill. I'd rather have whatever investments that goes into making the water realistic enough to drink went into another five minutes of gameplay.

Aye, I'm all for digital copies of CHEAP games I suppose. I don't mind losing a tenner on a game I play for a few hours then forget about (I can spend that much on a few beers and get the same value for money), but I DO care about my big investments - I've just bought Batman Arkham Asylum based on the notion that I'll rattle through it, then flog it in a couple of weeks and get something else. On the other hand, I happily drop 7 quid on a game on gog.com without a moment's pause.

PC Games were much better when they had the big boxes with stuff in them. I remember around the time Jedi Outcast came out is when they switched to the small boxes. When I bought it I was not happy.

Also, Starseige was awesome.

The ability to trade or resell games holds absolutely no value to me. Thus, I think Steam is brilliant. I have rarely, if ever traded or sold a game.

PSP Go fails for quite a few major other reasons, and should not be used as a judgment for digital media in general.

1. It's more expensive than a regular PSP.
2. You have to REPURCHASE your games.
3. The REPURCHASED GAMES will ALWAYS COST MSRP, as Sony has stated plainly. Keep in mind this is NOT like Steam, who often has sales and discounts. And X-Box Live as well, just not as often.
4. The interface for buying and using games is abysmal, and always requires you to have the absolute latest version of the system. Ars made a good point with this, when you buy a PSP Go, you have no games. In order to buy a game, you have to get on their store. To use their store, you need the latest firmware update. It takes a while to download and install that update. After that, you have to download a 1GB game file to your PSP, which CANNOT be resumed if disconnected, and runs over 802.11b, not G. Yes, it does not have G, still.
5. The controls are worse, cramped.
6. The screen is smaller.
7. You can use the exact same store on the PSP!

Hell no. Those damn boxes were hard to manage on shelves, and in stores they were prone to damage and dents. They were unnecessarily cumbersome when the product was on a CD accompanied with a small manual, and it was good when they disappeared.

Your nostalgia is getting the better of you.



It isn't worth the gas to drive to a Gamespot to trade in games.

I seem to remember that JK2 was one of the first, if not the first game to use the new box size. I have to say that JK2 probably has the best box art I've ever seen.

Thankfully you can download stuff on the PS3 or PC and transfer it to your PSP via USB. Tried to download Disgaea a few days ago, was going to take 90 minutes thanks to good old 802.11b. Downloaded it on my laptop instead, took about 10 minutes to download and transfer over.

I agree though, the PSPGo is a huge rip.

And I love digital distribution of games, as I have no desire to resell games, nor do I buy used games from places like Gamestop on principle.

what's worse is the fact that it's not only smaller boxes but they don't even try to fill the small box

i've got a fair few games that have nothing but a disc in a paper sleeve in the box... no printed materials at all if you want a manual you have to go for the pdf manual on the disc

it's why i love when i buy an older game and it has the original big box with the original contents of that box

i remember back when i bought tribes it was in the starsiege/tribes double pack... the box with all the materials was about 6.5lbs IIRC... and that box has nothing on the Rainbow Six Collector's Edition box i recently bought from a rummage sale which includes Rainbow Six, Eagle Watch, Rogue Spear, Urban Ops, Covert Ops Essentials, Bonus Disc, all the individual manuals and reference cards (remember reference cards?) for the games and expansions, and a big strategy guide covering all the included games and expansions

i'm not against digital distribution on the PC even for the larger games... considering the lack of printed materials with retail versions but for consoles handheld or not where we are now (with the PSP Go being the exception) with large titles getting disc releases and smaller games going download is the perfect balance

my biggest worry with the PSP Go is when sony decides to abandon the idea of continuing to sell 2 different PSP models and stop releasing games on UMD all together

this is true, but i think he was talking about games that had more than just a small manual in them...

If I'm not mistaken, they are already planning/building a PSP-4000 model. Which I *think* was supposed to add wireless G support, and fix the screen issue... maybe some other minor changes as well. I don't think UMD is going anywhere since so many people already own a normal PSP.

That's funny, my JO came in a big steel can and had new copies of JK/MotS and a glowing lightsaber keychain thing in it.

Awww.... I feel cheated. I didn't know that even existed.

it was a limited edition version... i believe it cost something like $10 more too

If the cost of digital downloads were dramatically reduced, the inability to resell would be insignificant next to the fact that you're going to buy whatever new release that comes out because it's only 20/30 dollars. I remember when that was the standard PS1/2 price range for games, and that's why I have 50 some of those games, and I don't own a modern console.

See I only really like steam since its a decent enough way to remember about older games and get them on the cheap as an impulse buy.

I'd still prefer the physical copies of stuff though. One thing that really bugs me about the increasing abundance of digital media is people actually want to do it with books.

This. I don't mind the trend of increasing graphics, that's gonna happen anyway. But dammit, don't sell a game that can't scale backwards or is nothing more than a tech demo.

Pfft, I loves my eBook reader.

Movie downloads are awesome. I stopped buying DVDs when I realized I had a whole shelf of them that I was watching like once a year.

Netflix is best. One play renting is way too expensive to be worthwhile. Not when I can pay $9/m for Netflix (I actually pay $17 for 3 discs at a time).

I wish their instant streaming would be something worth using though, most of the stuff on there is terrible. And TV shows often miss certain episodes.

Plus, I'm building up quite a collection of ripped DVDs

I'm not nearly as put off by the movies only because I rarely buy them. I do like to buy TV seasons though, since I rarely have time to watch the stuff as it airs. Id much rather buy a whole season and knock it out over the weekend.

Geez I love the instant streaming. They now have ~17,000 titles. My instant queue is always full, I never run out of stuff to watch. And anything that's not on there I just rent using my 3 dvds-at-a-time (which we tend to not turn over as quickly anymore since everyone uses watch instantly). I actually turned off my cable tv bac in December and I couldn't be happier. Roku rocks.

I'm hold the same opinion as Martyn. If it's a "big game" I want a disc. If it's a "small game" such as Shadow Complex, Worms, or The Lost and the Damned addon, I don't mind a download.

Streaming movies are the best. I enjoy getting blu-ray DVDs in the mail (2 at a time), but sometimes I'm in the mood for something different than what I have, so I just go online and add something new and watch it on my Xbox. South Park seasons 1-9 streaming ftw.

Actually Steam allows you to make your own discs after you download the game, complete with installer.

Everything is still tied to Steam/your account of course, but if you want a backup/physical install media there you go.

If you want pretty box/cd art and a manual...

Though I would be happy if more Valve games came with a pretty PDF manual.

You forgot that it only has an 802.11b chip for WiFi. Seriously? My phone has G and my netbook has N. My netbook. And this is a platform where digital distribution is the only platform? What a ****ing joke, Sony.

I know my tin came with a "Windows" version of DF. It was a disappointment though as it only seemed to be a windows autoplay launcher that launched the exact same DF. It was no easier for me to get that DF running than the original dos version. I can't remember if there were copies of JK or MotS.

Anyway, Lucas Arts generally used small boxes for it normal releases and didn't really include much in the way of notable extras however my experience only goes back as far as X-wing and might not include some of the lackluster releases such as Rebelion.

I thought X-Wing and Tie Fighter games came in those big trapezoid boxes.

Steam is great because of the constant deal offers on games, reducing prices on old content and bundling things together. None of these things will happen with the PSP Go.

All digital distribution models should follow steam's methods.

Steam should allow you to sell or gift ANY game you buy from them. Even with that, though, there are tons of problems with people losing their steam account or otherwise getting screwed and apparently their customer service isn't helpful at all (just make a new steam account and buy it again).

So, I just pulled out my JO tin and there is, in fact, JK as well. Unless they included MotS on the same CDs there's no sign of that. Anyway, I've never unwrapped it since I have the original release as well. Pretty cool to have such a classic game still mint in the jewel case. I wouldn't have opened DF either had I known the nature of its windows compatibility. Still, the CD is flawless in the jewel case without even a speck of dust visible.

This X1000

Also, its insanely stupid that if you own TF2, and buy a orange box, you don't either get it A) cheaper. or B) get an extra copy of TF2 to gift.

I owned HL2, Ep1, TF2, and bought a orange box for portal, ep2, and to gift a buddy the rest... fail. All I got was the HL2 gift.

Ew. What the heck do you watch? I've gone through literally everything instant watch has, and I could only find like, 20 things total I'd even want to watch, half of it stuff that I've already seen. Most of the titles are ages old b-rated crap movies. You'll never seen anything even remotely recent on it.

Clearly you edited your post after to make me look a fool.