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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Finland makes Broadband a right for its citizens
12
Finland makes Broadband a right for its citizens
2009-10-14, 6:54 PM #1
http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/10/14/2229231

I think the real question here is:

Would you rather have the right to broadband, or the right to burger in america?
[http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/garosaon/emot-birger.gif]

Alternatively, maybe we can kick out New Jersey and replace it with Finland.
[01:52] <~Nikumubeki> Because it's MBEGGAR BEGS LIKE A BEGONI.
2009-10-14, 6:57 PM #2
Bandwidth, please. Screw Finland.
And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
2009-10-14, 7:04 PM #3
Lol. Commies.
2009-10-14, 7:11 PM #4
Burger is what Burger gets.
"Oh my god. That just made me want to start cutting" - Aglar
"Why do people from ALL OVER NORTH AMERICA keep asking about CATS?" - Steven, 4/1/2009
2009-10-14, 7:54 PM #5
Indubitably.
woot!
2009-10-14, 7:56 PM #6
Finland is also famous for its alcoholics. I guess, the Internet is about to get a little crazier.
My favorite JKDF2 h4x:
EAH XMAS v2
MANIPULATOR GUN
EAH SMOOTH SNIPER
2009-10-14, 8:30 PM #7
Finland: way to keep your priorities straight.
Warhead[97]
2009-10-14, 9:13 PM #8
When your country is that tiny and flaccid things like this are possible.
2009-10-14, 9:23 PM #9
Originally posted by BobTheMasher:
Finland: way to keep your priorities straight.

Er, to be fair, they have one of the highest standards of living in the world... I think they're entitled to this.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2009-10-14, 9:27 PM #10
"Entitled" is a very loaded word with me.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I think it's great for everyone to have access to broadband internet. That's awesome. But making it a "right"? Being "entitled" to it? Entitlement is a sore spot with me, is all.
Warhead[97]
2009-10-14, 9:35 PM #11
But isn't that just an issue of semantics?
SnailIracing:n(500tpostshpereline)pants
-----------------------------@%
2009-10-14, 9:37 PM #12
I meant they are entitled to worry about things like broadband as a right.

I understand your angle but, would you think it strange for a government to grant the rights of clean, running water and electricity to its citizens? What about a phone line? Internet access is becoming increasingly important.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2009-10-14, 9:42 PM #13
I can understand Internet, saying something like "All citizens have a right to be connected to internet unrestricted" but broadband?
How do you get rural farmers broadband?
2009-10-14, 9:51 PM #14
building infrastructure. duh.
My girlfriend paid a lot of money for that tv; I want to watch ALL OF IT. - JM
2009-10-14, 10:02 PM #15
Originally posted by BobTheMasher:
"Entitled" is a very loaded word with me.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I think it's great for everyone to have access to broadband internet. That's awesome. But making it a "right"? Being "entitled" to it? Entitlement is a sore spot with me, is all.


those darn socialists sure are heading down the road to destruction

its a good thing americans don't have to worry about entitlement

o.0
2009-10-14, 10:16 PM #16
in case anyone hasn't actually looked into this, they're not saying that everyone gets broadband internet, guaranteed. They're just saying that every home must have a broadband internet connection available. Kinda like saying every home must be hooked up to a good water supply, or every home must have access to electricity. The Finlandians still have to pay for it.

This is not a bad thing. And in fact, it would be really nice if such were the case in the US. My parents, for example, are stuck with this slow satellite/cable connection (I don't know the details) because they live in a small farm town.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Lassev: I guess there was something captivating in savagery, because I liked it.
2009-10-15, 12:39 AM #17
I like broadband, Americans, Finlandians and Burgers.

Do I win a prize?
2009-10-15, 2:09 AM #18
Originally posted by Sarn_Cadrill:
in case anyone hasn't actually looked into this, they're not saying that everyone gets broadband internet, guaranteed. They're just saying that every home must have a broadband internet connection available. Kinda like saying every home must be hooked up to a good water supply, or every home must have access to electricity. The Finlandians still have to pay for it.

This is not a bad thing. And in fact, it would be really nice if such were the case in the US. My parents, for example, are stuck with this slow satellite/cable connection (I don't know the details) because they live in a small farm town.


Sure it'd be nice (Phoenix Airport's free wifi is over 10x as fast as my "broadband"), but isn't Finland about the size of my backyard? :confused:
woot!
2009-10-15, 2:30 AM #19
Originally posted by JLee:
Sure it'd be nice (Phoenix Airport's free wifi is over 10x as fast as my "broadband"), but isn't Finland about the size of my backyard? :confused:


Finland is roughly the size of the state of Montana. Also some who don't already know may find it interesting that Finland, being 64th on this list, is larger than for instance the United Kingdom (not counting its overseas territories).
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2009-10-15, 6:22 AM #20
Eh, the future is free public wifi.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2009-10-15, 6:33 AM #21
Originally posted by mb:
Alternatively, maybe we can kick out New Jersey and replace it with Finland.


:(

2009-10-15, 6:46 AM #22
Here I was thinking that I could

[http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/garosaon/zmonks/zmonks25.jpg]

But alas my plans were cut short!

[http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/garosaon/zmonks/zmonks_colddamn.jpg]

Damn damn dam!
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2009-10-15, 7:37 AM #23
Haha you died.
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2009-10-15, 7:46 AM #24
Originally posted by Martyn:
I like broadband, Americans, Finlandians and Burgers.

Do I win a prize?


yeh
2009-10-15, 8:02 AM #25
Originally posted by Mort-Hog:
Eh, the future is free public wifi.

God, I hope not.
nope.
2009-10-15, 9:09 AM #26
Originally posted by Baconfish:
God, I hope not.


Why? I live in Manchester, a pretty vast and wealthy city, and the Wifi coverage is utterly awful. It's 2009 for ****'s sake, wifi coverage should be better than this and should be publicly funded.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2009-10-15, 9:12 AM #27
Better off with a better technology like wimax, though.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2009-10-15, 9:15 AM #28
Originally posted by Mort-Hog:
Why? I live in Manchester, a pretty vast and wealthy city, and the Wifi coverage is utterly awful. It's 2009 for ****'s sake, wifi coverage should be better than this and should be publicly funded.

The less Manchestvites with connections, the better. :P
nope.
2009-10-15, 10:53 AM #29
Originally posted by Mort-Hog:
Eh, the future is free public wifi.


more like "the future is NOT free public wifi." Srsly, have you been to an airport lately? (Coincidentally, I have, and all of them I went to had wifi, and all but one you had to buy hotspot access. I really don't see companies randomly deciding to give it away for free.)
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Lassev: I guess there was something captivating in savagery, because I liked it.
2009-10-15, 11:10 AM #30
Originally posted by Sarn_Cadrill:
more like "the future is NOT free public wifi." Srsly, have you been to an airport lately? (Coincidentally, I have, and all of them I went to had wifi, and all but one you had to buy hotspot access. I really don't see companies randomly deciding to give it away for free.)


Yeah, I said public, that's why it has to be financed by local councils or the government.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2009-10-16, 10:26 AM #31
right and the government is going to take a revenue producing, taxable commerce and destroy it while at the same time adding a new expense to their own budgets.

Don't get me wrong, I think it would be great, but in reality, I don't see it ever happening on a large scale.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Lassev: I guess there was something captivating in savagery, because I liked it.
2009-10-16, 12:32 PM #32
What do you think the cellular network is?

Also, I don't know anything about Finnish politics but I'm guessing that "right" does not mean the same thing that most Americans think of, which is closer the concept of an inalienable human right. I imagine it just means, "if you are a citizen, we provide you with internet."
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2009-10-16, 7:37 PM #33
A cellular network is something YOU PAY FOR. (and if there is going to be mobile internet, that's far more likely to be the standard than wifi)

And it's more like, "If you live in Finland, we make sure a high speed connection goes to your home."
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Lassev: I guess there was something captivating in savagery, because I liked it.
2009-10-16, 8:35 PM #34
Originally posted by Sarn_Cadrill:
A cellular network is something YOU PAY FOR.
Yes, 'you.' As in you and everybody else, including people who don't own cell phones. The simple fact is... there's no business case for expanding infrastructure. None. That's why huge, publicly-traded corporations won't do it. Governments heavily subsidize infrastructure expansion and improvements. So that cell phone you've got... your tax money paid for it, and then you pay for it again out of pocket every month. Same for your land line and cable. Nice, right?

Perfectly inelastic demand + government granted monopolies => invisible hand has Parkinson's.

(Of course, the telecoms have gotten wise to government policy: i.e. the DOCSIS 3.0 red herring the cable companies have been rolling out glacially so they can avoid the stick and still get the carrot without actually spending any money.)
2009-10-17, 3:58 AM #35
Originally posted by Sarn_Cadrill:
A cellular network is something YOU PAY FOR. (and if there is going to be mobile internet, that's far more likely to be the standard than wifi)

And it's more like, "If you live in Finland, we make sure a high speed connection goes to your home."

No.
Originally posted by Emon:
What do you think the cellular network is?

Also, I don't know anything about Finnish politics but I'm guessing that "right" does not mean the same thing that most Americans think of, which is closer the concept of an inalienable human right. I imagine it just means, "if you are a citizen, we provide you with internet."

Yes.
nope.
2009-10-17, 4:30 AM #36
Originally posted by Baconfish:
No.
No.
Originally posted by Baconfish:
Yes.
No.

(wow, this kind of arguing is SOOOO much easier and to the point. I APPROVE.)
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Lassev: I guess there was something captivating in savagery, because I liked it.
2009-10-17, 4:33 AM #37
:huh: Emon and Joncy already explained, there's no point in just repeating it.
nope.
2009-10-17, 4:40 AM #38
Except Emon is wrong, and Jon`C is irrelevant (and about half wrong).
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Lassev: I guess there was something captivating in savagery, because I liked it.
2009-10-17, 6:42 AM #39
Um, cellular networks and phone/cable lines are infrastructure which are already so much subsidized by the government. That's common fact. Why worry so much about the government "revenue producing, taxable commerce and destroy it" when companies do the exact sort of thing to this day? If anything, by providing a government run internet option, perhaps cable and phone companies would retool their prices so it wouldn't be so craptacular. If everyone PAYS for this infrastructure, then everyone should RECEIVE more in return.

Quote:
(wow, this kind of arguing is SOOOO much easier and to the point. I APPROVE.)


What the hell.
SnailIracing:n(500tpostshpereline)pants
-----------------------------@%
2009-10-17, 10:15 AM #40
Originally posted by Sarn_Cadrill:
Jon`C is irrelevant (and about half wrong).


Of course I'm wrong, Sarn. If I were right there'd be a cholera epidemic in Zimbabwe because the water company didn't spend any money on infrastructure.

You're so smart.
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