Massassi Forums Logo

This is the static archive of the Massassi Forums. The forums are closed indefinitely. Thanks for all the memories!

You can also download Super Old Archived Message Boards from when Massassi first started.

"View" counts are as of the day the forums were archived, and will no longer increase.

ForumsDiscussion Forum → hey, poley, any truth to this madness?
hey, poley, any truth to this madness?
2009-11-18, 1:11 PM #1
Just found this on another forum I frequent about the LHC: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/06/lhc_dimensional_portals/
Quote:
A top boffin at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) says that the titanic machine may possibly create or discover previously unimagined scientific phenomena, or "unknown unknowns" - for instance "an extra dimension".

"Out of this door might come something, or we might send something through it," said Sergio Bertolucci, who is Director for Research and Scientific Computing at CERN, briefing reporters including the Reg at CERN HQ earlier this week.



The LHC, built inside a 27-km circular subterranean tunnel deep beneath the Franco-Swiss border outside Geneva, functions like a sort of orbital motorway for extremely high-speed hadrons - typically either protons or lead ions.

The differences are, firstly, that the streams of particles are moving at velocities within a whisker of light speed - such that each stream has as much energy in it as a normal car going at 1000mph. Secondly, the beams are arranged in such fashion that the two streams swerve through one another occasionally, which naturally results in huge numbers of incredibly violent head-on collisions.

These collisions are sufficiently violent that they are expected to briefly create conditions similar to those obtaining countless aeons ago, not long after the Big Bang, when the entire universe was still inconceivably small - it was smaller than a proton for quite some time, seemingly, still with all the stuff that nowadays makes up all the supra-enormity of space and galaxies and so forth packed in somehow.

Naturally, some extremely strange phenomena are to be expected when one mangles the very fabric of space-time itself in this fashion. Various eccentric nutballs have claimed that this would doom humanity in one fashion or another; perhaps converting the entire Earth, everything on it and possibly the rest of the universe too into "strangelet soup", monopole mulligatawny or some other sort of frightful sub-particulate blancmange or custard.

It has also been suggested that cack-handed boffins at the LHC might inadvertently call into being a miniature black hole and carelessly drop this into the centre of the Earth, rather irritatingly causing the planet to implode. It's certainly to be hoped that the button marked "Call Black Hole Into Being" on the control board has some kind of flip-down cover over it.

Obviously all that's utter rubbish. But some boffins have speculated that black holes might alternatively act as spacewarp wormhole portals into alternate universes, or something. This would seem to chime with Bertolucci's remarks this week on hyperdimensional "doors" out of which might come unspecified "somethings".


If my memory serves me correctly, poley actually works around the LHC or has access to inside information about the LHC, as last time there was crap about the LHC he debunked it.

Oh, also, discuss.
DO NOT WANT.
2009-11-18, 1:19 PM #2
Didn't read the article. Don't need to. It's The Register.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2009-11-18, 1:19 PM #3
There is no Poley, only ZUUL.
nope.
2009-11-18, 1:24 PM #4
This article says "lol, it's not like they're gonna make black holes, or blow up the world, that's silly... but guys, they might make portals to other dimensions that SOMETHINGS will come out of"
2009-11-18, 2:01 PM #5
Most news and tabloid stories about the LHC read like eugenics articles from the 1920s.
2009-11-18, 2:01 PM #6
It's all very scientific and proven!
2009-11-18, 4:30 PM #7
Originally posted by saberopus:
This article says "lol, it's not like they're gonna make black holes, or blow up the world, that's silly... but guys, they might make portals to other dimensions that SOMETHINGS will come out of"


The Combine!
"They're everywhere, the little harlots."
-Martyn
2009-11-18, 6:52 PM #8
Originally posted by Zell:
If my memory serves me correctly, poley actually works around the LHC or has access to inside information about the LHC, as last time there was crap about the LHC he debunked it.

that I do,

firstly, as Emon said, it's The Register....

secondly they are basically trying to sensationalise something said by a theorist as an off-the-cuff remark.

this quote by someone a bit more "with it" on the second page basically sums up what I think of Sergio Bertolucci, having never met the guy but having read about his "thoughts" in various emails...

Quote:
We took the matter up with Dr Mike Lamont, a control-room boffin at the LHC.

"We're hoping to see supersymmetry and extra dimensions," he confirmed.

Pressed on the matter of doors through which something might come, as hinted at by Bertolucci, Lamont rather elliptically said "well, he's a theorist", before recommending the book Warped Passages by physicist Lisa Randall. This explores ways in which extra-dimensional space and entities might interact with our own. It uses among others the example of how a sphere moving in 3D space would appear to someone living on a single 2D plane-space - that is as a mysterious circle suddenly blossoming into existence, growing, perhaps moving about and then shrinking down and vanishing again.

"There's no maths in it," added Lamont encouragingly, having assessed the intellectual level of the Reg news team with disconcerting percipience.

Yes there is a slim chance we may well create mini-black holes, but what you should also consider is that there has also been a slim chance (according to the same theory) that a mini-black hole could have been produced in the upper atmosphere of the earth for the past 6 billion or so years....

And the extra dimension stuff, well, String Theory has in it any number of different dimensions, depending on which type of String Theory you look at, I think the popular one at the moment has it sitting at 11 dimensions. The idea is that some of the extra dimensions are wrapped around each other, or are just closed loops to us, much like the description of a 3D object in 2D space. It's thought some of the collisions in the LHC could unravel some of these extra dimensions and let us look at them, again it's just a theory.

You'll find a lot of physicists in the next few months, mostly theorists I'd have a guess, saying very many wild and different things, most of which have no formal grounding other than a few hours drinking coffee together in restaurant 1 at CERN with some random other theorist... don't believe any of it.

The simple fact is that we have a rough idea of what goes on up to about half of the energy the LHC can produce (at the moment), maybe a bit less, beyond that quite a few different elements of the Standard Model (the particle physics model) start to do some weird ****, most of which I myself don't fully understand, I'm an experimentalist, I get a rough idea of how stuff works and go with it, I leave the crazy math to the crazy people.

Of note folks, it's very likely we'll have beam splashes in ATLAS today (Friday), this will be the first time the beam has been the whole way around the ring since the accident last year.

if you want some links to follow,

http://atlas.web.cern.ch/Atlas/public/EVTDISPLAY/events.html - Should show the beam splashes

http://op-webtools.web.cern.ch/op-webtools/vistar/vistars.php?usr=LHC3 - General LHC info and a bunch of other stuff (not all working)

http://pcatdwww.cern.ch/atlas-point1/operation.php - Links under "Systems" and "LHC Machine" will be of interest.
People of our generation should not be subjected to mornings.

Rbots
2009-11-18, 7:11 PM #9
Damn, poley rocks. Thank your for the information! :D
DO NOT WANT.
2009-11-18, 9:07 PM #10
so harsh on theorists :(
2009-11-19, 10:48 AM #11
I kept reading theorists as terrorists...
2009-11-19, 10:52 AM #12
not harsh on theorists, harsh on journalists taking idle speculation as serious theory.
Detty. Professional Expert.
Flickr Twitter
2009-11-19, 12:34 PM #13
Not to hijack the thread, but this has been pressing on my mind. I just watched Dan Brown's documentary about the LHC recently, and I was wondering how close we are to creating anti-matter. Have there been sufficient security measures put in place to keep the Illuminati out?
Also, I can kill you with my brain.
2009-11-19, 12:54 PM #14
ha ha ha
My girlfriend paid a lot of money for that tv; I want to watch ALL OF IT. - JM
2009-11-19, 2:11 PM #15
Quote:
"There's no maths in it,"


.
2009-11-19, 2:25 PM #16
Originally posted by poley:
And the extra dimension stuff, well, String Theory has in it any number of different dimensions, depending on which type of String Theory you look at, I think the popular one at the moment has it sitting at 11 dimensions. The idea is that some of the extra dimensions are wrapped around each other, or are just closed loops to us, much like the description of a 3D object in 2D space. It's thought some of the collisions in the LHC could unravel some of these extra dimensions and let us look at them, again it's just a theory.


This is **** I think about from time to time. I noticed a correlation between Pascal's triangle and dimensions..

Edit: let me clarify what you're seeing.

The object with 5 vertices, 10 lines, 10 plants, 5 volumes, etc actually has 5 volumes of equal shape and size, connected in a way we can't percieve. The easiest way to understand this is to think about how the object with 4 vertices would appear from the top. It would appear like a triangle with all points connected to another point in the center, and although the area of those 4 triangles are equal it appears like 3 of them are smaller.
Attachment: 23111/im smart.gif (23,315 bytes)

↑ Up to the top!