Which is worse...

Someone that thinks that they are always right but is usually wrong?

Or

Someone that thinks that they are always right and usually is?

So basically, JM or Joncy?

Someone that thinks that they are always right but is usually wrong.

Someone who thinks they are always right but is actually wrong. Not only annoying but also completely detrimental to everything they do. Someone who thinks they are always right may be kind of annoying, but at least you can usually rely on them to actually BE right, so it's not ALL bad. Plus, if they're almost always right, I think they've earned the right to think they're right all the time to SOME extent.

It depends on whether it's arrogance that's the problem or not. Unjustified arrogance is much easier to deal with that substantiated arrogance.

This.

I love you.

I have a friend that thinks he's always right, and rarely is... Makes me want to punch him, thankfully I'm aware of his fail.

See, I have more of an issue with people that think they're usually wrong but are usually right. People that have a reasonable view of their ability can be set a task and be expected to complete it. If that ability is high, then I'd expect their view of that ability to be high. Someone that underestimates their own ability may seem humble and noble, but if they perceive themselves unable to complete a problem then they probably won't (even if, when pushed, they probably can). Those people are useless to me.

I'd much rather put up with competent arrogance than incompetent humility.

There are certain things that I am very good at (such as methods of diagonalising Hamiltonians), and I know that I am very good at them. Any extraneous effort to pretend otherwise is irrational and unproductive. It also sets a personal standard for how good I expect myself to be at other things that I'm less good at (such as tensor calculus). If I had unreasonably low expectations of myself, I'd look at tensor calculus and think 'oh that's far too difficult for me!' and not even attempt it and get nowhere in life.

Even after 4 years of studying undergraduate physics, there were still many of my friends that winced at the sight of mathematics. Even though we've had four ****ing years of mathematics, there were still people that had to check their simple rearrangement of equations. That infuriates me.

The first.

Women

I'd say someone who thinks they are always right and usually is.

With someone who's usually wrong, I believe there's likely a higher chance that people will eventually figure out the person is usually wrong, and learn to at least be critical of the person's claims. Assuming there's a level of arrogance involved, people would likely also associate arrogance with bad and treat it as such.

With someone who's usually right, when they ARE wrong, I believe there's a lower chance that people will figure out that they're wrong on the case. The arrogance, meanwhile, will likely be tolerated, and in the case when they're wrong, will be rewarded.

To be clear, I'm not claiming that humility/lack of arrogance is more important than being right, but I do claim that arrogance shouldn't be rewarded even if the arrogant person is right. People (especially those who value intelligence over wisdom) seem to be better at punishing arrogance when it's from someone who's usually wrong than from someone who's usually right. So I think it's worse because arrogance is more likely to be rewarded.

What exactly do you mean by 'intelligence over wisdom'?

Mort - I'd drive you mad then: since becoming an actual engineer my maths skills have taken a steady dive for the worse...

I can navigate the steelwork design code better than the smartest of my bosses, and design that steelwork down to the nuts but bugger me I need to check my arithmetic carefully

It comes down to the use of software really.

Engineering: where the noble, semi-skilled laborers execute the vision of those who think and dream. Hello, Oompa Loompas of science!

.

Yknow I vaguely remember you saying that programme was crap a while ago and you refused to watch it.

Yeah, it is pretty ****, but that's still a great quote hidden amongst a script full of turd.

To simplify:

Examples of intelligence: knowing pi to 4,127 places, immecible grammar, ability to draw photo-realisticlly, a 0.934 batting average, etc.

Examples of wisdom: correctly applying ethics/morals to a situation, knowing how to apply written and visual artistic style to the appropriate audience, when to not hit so as to avoid less fouls, etc.

I'm mostly pointing out that a number of people, at least on these forums, are much more willing to punish a nice but ignorant person than a mean but intelligent person.

You know the difference between a mechanical engineer and a civil engineer? One makes weapons and the other makes targets.

Ah, but structural engineers help make both

Civils is mud and roads by and large anyway. Right waste of time

You seem to be confusing intelligence with knowledge

I think that Intelligence would be being able to figure out (computationally) pi to 4,127 places, while knowledge would be simply looking it up and memorizing it.

Aww, you're thinking of me.



Knowledge and intelligence are too interconnected to make any sort of meaningful comparison or distinction.

Actually knowing pi to 4127 places would be knowledge, but the learning of it would be a stupid waste of time. Knowing HOW to figure out pi is knowledge, not intelligence. Figuring out pi to 4127 places is neither knowledge nor intelligence, it's work.

The point is that there's a distinction between the ability to memorize facts and the ability to problem solve.

And both are 'intelligence'.


Just getting a damned calculator is wisdom.

I agree with this. (Which is probably why I don't get along with Jon`C. Cause like Baco said at the beginning of this thread, that description fits him pretty well.)

While the comparison to JM and Jon`C was amusing, I don't think it's terribly accurate. JM is not that much in the wrong as I see it, nor is Jon`C that much of an arrogant person. Not nice, sure, but not full-blown arrogant.

Also, I happen to think there's a difference between humility and cowardice that could be easily confused, just as there's a difference between confidence and arrogance that could be easily confused. I know I can flip-flop between cowardice and arrogance while trying to be humble and/or confident myself.

hurr. I t hink he's arrogant. Or at least mildly full of himself.

The internet is a powerful tool for harnessing the insecurities and arrogance of intelligent and knowledgeable jerks and converting it into free and useful information.

For example, feigning a dumb opinion can often yield a carefully researched and well written arguemnt designed devastate you, when in reality it's just a few hours of research you didn't have to do. If you can get two knowledgeable people arguing about something, that's even better.

at least the right person is useful

knowledge: knowing that a jellyfish will sting you if you touch it.

wisdom: using a stick instead of your hand to fling said jellyfish at your friend.

It's not really worth trying to define intelligence. Philosophers have been trying for thousands of years and it isn't easy.

Knowledge: Being able to identify a toxic dart.

Wisdom: Being able to tell it comes from Kamino because the little cuts on the side give it away.

Or, to quote a mate of mine, "knowledge is knowing that tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad."

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Not sure which is worse, but arrogance is just an annoying horrible thing no matter what the reason for it.

Someone that thinks that they are always right but is usually wrong. However I forgive them if they can accept that they were wrong later; to be blunt I am this person more often than I'd like.

I always remember what a certain neurosurgeon said: our profession is frequently wrong but never in doubt. During grand rounds, you'd be harangued more if you muttered the right answer than if you proudly proclaimed the wrong one. Within reason, of course; there had to have been some substance in your wrong answer.

In my eyes the one who thinks he's always right and usually is is entitled to this self-confidence, but I'll have even more respect for the guy if he's willing to listen to other's opinions and ideas without immediately brushing them off. Acting like a dick about it, right or not, is a sure way to be disliked.

The guy who thinks he's always right, or knows everything, and is usually wrong about it is just laughable. I've known guys and girls like this in the past and I always have a good time pinning them. I'm in no way some highly scholarly guy and I am willing to admit what I know nothing about, and those who try to claim some sort of self-worth by acting like a know-it-all just deserves pitty. Down below they are either terribly foolish or have very low self-esteem.

I had a workmate who always thought he was right but always wrong. He was very frustrating, because you could point out his complete idiocy (politely, and then later, not so politely) and he still wouldn't get it. He'd even go round asking other people, who wold also tell him he was wrong and he still wouldn't get it.
Sheer overwhelming arrogance coupled with absolute stupidity. Very potent mix.

House

Also, I agree with Mentat.