Massassi Forums Logo

This is the static archive of the Massassi Forums. The forums are closed indefinitely. Thanks for all the memories!

You can also download Super Old Archived Message Boards from when Massassi first started.

"View" counts are as of the day the forums were archived, and will no longer increase.

☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → To intervene or not.
12
To intervene or not.
2010-01-31, 5:59 PM #1
On Friday night I took a trip out to the city to visit an all you can eat sushi joint. After sufficiently filling myself to the point of nausea and pain, I leave the establishment to venture home.

Along the way, I see a man who appears to be an indigent verbally assaulting a much smaller woman. From a quick glance it does not seem that they know each other, and the man is hurling racial insults at the woman. Despite the fact you can hear the man from a few blocks away, none of the onlookers seem phased (well, not that surprising, as this is NYC). The man is precariously close to the woman, but nothing physical at all has commenced. This is also happening at a bus stop.

Fight, item, or flee?
2010-01-31, 6:08 PM #2
I would keep an eye on things and call it in, likely intervening only if absolutely necessary.
woot!
2010-01-31, 6:08 PM #3
post about it from my phone
COUCHMAN IS BACK BABY
2010-01-31, 6:12 PM #4
Yeah I would say that doesn't quite merit an "intervention" yet.
2010-01-31, 6:14 PM #5
people watch.
Hope it gets exciting... if not walk away without a good cell phone video.
2010-01-31, 6:35 PM #6
If I was too far out of range to taunt then I would probably Intervene, especially if its a healer.
"Guns don't kill people, I kill people."
2010-01-31, 6:39 PM #7
Originally posted by JLee:
I would keep an eye on things and call it in, likely intervening only if absolutely necessary.

I know you only know New Hampshire law, but perhaps I can extrapolate to other states. What can I, as a citizen, legally do in such a scenario? Legally both meaning I cannot be prosecuted nor can I have a lawsuit slapped on me. I imagine the options are close to nothing.
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2010-01-31, 6:59 PM #8
Originally posted by dalf:
I know you only know New Hampshire law, but perhaps I can extrapolate to other states. What can I, as a citizen, legally do in such a scenario? Legally both meaning I cannot be prosecuted nor can I have a lawsuit slapped on me. I imagine the options are close to nothing.


Ehh you can always have a lawsuit for just about anything. Whether it holds for anything is another matter altogether.

NH permits the use of non-deadly force by private persons to prevent the unlawful use of non-deadly force against oneself or a third person.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/RSA/html/LXII/627/627-4.htm

As described in the OP, there's not much you could do (other than calling). Certainly you could go try to break it up verbally, but I wouldn't suggest it.
woot!
2010-01-31, 7:10 PM #9
Why, don't you let us know what you did then we can comment both on what you did and what we would do. Personally, unless it was extremely inconvenient or my judgement was that nothing physical would happen I would probably find it hard not to interject. Worse case scenario I have to beat someone down when the assault me.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2010-01-31, 7:26 PM #10
Yeah but you know fightings. Lord Kuat is a nerdly doctor type. Or possibly the king of a space planet.
COUCHMAN IS BACK BABY
2010-01-31, 7:33 PM #11
Originally posted by Lord Kuat:
Fight, item, or flee?


Probably just walk away. Then again I saw a cabby threatening someone with a tire iron on friday and I stuck around for a little to see what it was going to happen. :ninja: That was on 7th Ave & Leroy i think.
[01:52] <~Nikumubeki> Because it's MBEGGAR BEGS LIKE A BEGONI.
2010-01-31, 7:45 PM #12
Intervene does not mean fight.
When I was at a train station once I saw a young woman wrapped in a blanket, wearing pyjamas and carrying some luggage, obviously she had just left home in a hurry, which also explained the large-ish man yelling at her and shoving her as she was crying her eyes out.
Being a bit weak and flabby myself (I mean, pacifist...) I took out my phone and walked up to them and said "excuse me mate, you should know I've called the police already, if you leave now you'll avoid them" and he did (thank the gods).
Not that I'm saying that Kuat's scenario was a "call the cops" scenario, I'm just saying there are alternatives.
You can't judge a book by it's file size
2010-01-31, 8:04 PM #13
Kill everyone.
>>untie shoes
2010-01-31, 8:05 PM #14
Originally posted by JLee:
Ehh you can always have a lawsuit for just about anything. Whether it holds for anything is another matter altogether.

NH permits the use of non-deadly force by private persons to prevent the unlawful use of non-deadly force against oneself or a third person.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/RSA/html/LXII/627/627-4.htm

As described in the OP, there's not much you could do (other than calling). Certainly you could go try to break it up verbally, but I wouldn't suggest it.

Clarify:[quote=New Hampshire Criminal Code] Surrender property to a person asserting a claim of right thereto;[/quote]
So if I'm mugged, I have to fork over the wallet and not defend myself?
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2010-01-31, 8:11 PM #15
I think if I was alone, and it was in my town, I'd just call the cops with a full description of the guy and what he's doing. Around my town, it wouldn't be too much hassle for the cops to show up to something like that, it's not like i'd be pulling them away from an armed robbery or anything.

To be honest, if it were me and my usual friends, and again, in my town, we'd probably do at least that, and stick around to make sure it stayed verbal. If it didn't, we'd probably try to distract him from whatever he was doing. Other than that, I wouldn't really risk doing much, because I don't know the details of what's going on, it could be anything.
Warhead[97]
2010-01-31, 8:15 PM #16
Originally posted by dalf:
Clarify:
So if I'm mugged, I have to fork over the wallet and not defend myself?


Sounds pretty much like it. Unless a reasonable person in your position could believe that your life was in danger regardless of compliance. I always thought New Hampshire's laws were more liberal than that, though, so maybe I'm mistaken (one way or another).
Warhead[97]
2010-01-31, 9:03 PM #17
I'd go with the Paragon option.
2010-01-31, 9:41 PM #18
Originally posted by BobTheMasher:
I think if I was alone, and it was in my town, I'd just call the cops with a full description of the guy and what he's doing.


While that would definitely get justice for the potential physical harm (assuming it is imminent) it would not prevent the violence, which is much preferable.
You can't judge a book by it's file size
2010-01-31, 9:43 PM #19
Originally posted by Antony:
Kill everyone.


Ohhh yeah
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2010-01-31, 9:44 PM #20
That's what a renegade cop would do.
>>untie shoes
2010-01-31, 9:45 PM #21
Extra emphasis if it happens on an outpost on the edge of space.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2010-01-31, 9:49 PM #22
Extra emphasis if it happens to be a ROBOT renegade cop on an outpost on the edge of space in a world where laughter is king.
>>untie shoes
2010-01-31, 9:53 PM #23
To be exact, it would happen in a land... before time!
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2010-01-31, 9:53 PM #24
You're fired.
>>untie shoes
2010-01-31, 9:54 PM #25
I'm fired! I will not get out of the booth, I like it in here!
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2010-01-31, 9:55 PM #26
Get out of the booth, Jack.
>>untie shoes
2010-01-31, 9:57 PM #27
[http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/garosaon/smiley/fgrsad.png]
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2010-01-31, 9:58 PM #28
No one else has a ****ing clue of what is going on. This thread is ruined.
>>untie shoes
2010-01-31, 9:59 PM #29
Totally forgot the "two girls" part, that would have been distantly relevant. No, not two girls one cup go back to Brazil
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2010-01-31, 10:12 PM #30
The solution is to kill all Finns.
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2010-01-31, 10:12 PM #31
Originally posted by mb:
Probably just walk away. Then again I saw a cabby threatening someone with a tire iron on friday and I stuck around for a little to see what it was going to happen. :ninja: That was on 7th Ave & Leroy i think.


This was 32nd and 5th. I had just left from Ichi Umi, which I can recommend if you like fish. Like I mean, really like seafood. Quality isn't stellar, but definite variety. Cheap sake too, for a restaurant anyway.

Originally posted by Wookie06:
Why, don't you let us know what you did then we can comment both on what you did and what we would do. Personally, unless it was extremely inconvenient or my judgement was that nothing physical would happen I would probably find it hard not to interject. Worse case scenario I have to beat someone down when the assault me.


Part of the reason I posted is that I felt a bit guilty, because I just walked (or more appropriately waddled) away. My usual approach to these things is either verbally intervene or watch and wait to see if I have to call the cops.

Originally posted by Tracer:
Yeah but you know fightings. Lord Kuat is a nerdly doctor type. Or possibly the king of a space planet.


Hey man, I beat up a guy once! Like, long ago.

No wait, that was in a video game.

In the end, what I think I should have done was stick around and act as the situation called for, without the whole fighting option. Considering my state at the time, I'd probably just call the cops if anything happened.
2010-01-31, 10:41 PM #32
Originally posted by dalf:
Clarify:
So if I'm mugged, I have to fork over the wallet and not defend myself?


My first thought was that "claim of right" as it's used there probably requires an actual and reasonable belief (on the part of the person you're surrendering the property to) in a legitimate claim to ownership.

Even if I'm wrong about that, that part of the statute only applies to use of deadly force. Under 627:8, ordinary non-deadly physical force is permitted to defend your property.
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2010-01-31, 11:12 PM #33
Originally posted by dalf:
Clarify:
So if I'm mugged, I have to fork over the wallet and not defend myself?


http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/RSA/html/LXII/627/627-8.htm
Quote:
627:8 Use of Force in Property Offenses. – A person is justified in using force upon another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes it necessary to prevent what is or reasonably appears to be an unlawful taking of his property, or criminal mischief, or to retake his property immediately following its taking; but he may use deadly force under such circumstances only in defense of a person as prescribed in RSA 627:4.


Edit: I have been MacFoiled! Maybe I should read the whole thread next time.
woot!
2010-01-31, 11:15 PM #34
Bam! Lawyered!
My girlfriend paid a lot of money for that tv; I want to watch ALL OF IT. - JM
2010-02-01, 5:26 AM #35
Originally posted by Deadman:
While that would definitely get justice for the potential physical harm (assuming it is imminent) it would not prevent the violence, which is much preferable.


I guess I didn't mention that either way I'd be sticking around briefly to see what happened. But like I said, I have no idea what's really happening, so there's not a lot I can do except maybe distract the guy, and then I'd probably get my *** kicked. So unless it was a really clear choice between my *** and the other person's ***, it's probably best not to dive in head-first without anyone else's help.
Warhead[97]
2010-02-01, 5:29 AM #36
Originally posted by Antony:
Kill everyone.


this.
Peace is a lie
There is only passion
Through passion I gain strength
Through strength I gain power
Through power I gain victory
Through victory my chains are broken
The Force shall set me free
2010-02-01, 6:12 AM #37
I'd go with the whole yelling out "hey, I just called the cops. You'd better knock it off and clear out." Of course that could make the guy angry, but I'm confident I could handle that too.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Lassev: I guess there was something captivating in savagery, because I liked it.
2010-02-01, 8:07 AM #38
The sad thing about today's world is, if they were together, and you intervened, and the guy attacked you and you fought him off. They could press charges, and she would likely be a witness against you even if you were helping her, because 'she loves him'.

So, if she's not asking for help, don't bother.
Quote Originally Posted by FastGamerr
"hurr hairy guy said my backhair looks dumb hurr hairy guy smash"
2010-02-01, 8:35 AM #39
Originally posted by Michael MacFarlane:
My first thought was that "claim of right" as it's used there probably requires an actual and reasonable belief (on the part of the person you're surrendering the property to) in a legitimate claim to ownership.

Even if I'm wrong about that, that part of the statute only applies to use of deadly force. Under 627:8, ordinary non-deadly physical force is permitted to defend your property.


Right, but you don't have to hand over your property, and if deadly force is being threatened if you don't do it, you can respond in kind.
2010-02-01, 10:52 AM #40
we just went over this today in my law class.

I learned a few things ..

"Assault" is only a threatening act. Hitting someone is not assault. (Never knew this..) That is battery.
Usually battery and assault go together, but it you sneaked up behind someone and punched them in the back of the head, that would be battery. The person was unaware and you showed no hostile intention. You just randomly punched them.

--- What you are talking about..
You would not be able to intervene in this situation. If you were to try to intervene and did something, you would be liable.

There are few cases in which failure to act can be considered negligence. If you are related to the person you usually be liable to try to help. Or if you are professionally qualified. Otherwise, you would be liable if something went bad.
12

↑ Up to the top!