NOT TEAM FORTRESS

Specifically Mechanical, Electrical, or Electronics. I'm considering other job alternatives since Graphic Design isn't a very promising outlook where I live, and I won't be willing to move out of the state to get a job either. Too much land here that's to be mine in the future.

Just looking for anyone who's an engineer to give me some insight into how horrible getting their education was...

I'm staring at this extensive list of MATH I must do if I were to go after this degree, and I'm not sure I could do it. I can do math, but I don't like to unless I can see and apply it to something in real life. Doing abstract problems from a textbook puts me down faster than anything.

Anyway, thanks for anyone who has input.

ME and EE are both pretty heavy on math, but a lot of it is applied math (yay physics).

I have a math degree and a CS degree (which also included dabbling in some EE courses), so math was definitely the meat of my education. I loved it cause I was always good at math and enjoyed it. Even then, there were times where it was pretty damn rough (probably cause I took a lot of the math classes that only the math majors who wanted to punish themselves took).

As far as ME and EE go though, you're not going to be taking too many pure math classes I wouldn't think. Multivariable calc, differential equations, and maybe linear algebra would be it probably. Everything else would be in the form of your physics courses and engineering courses.

Well, the course lineup I'm looking at now has Precalculus, Cal I, Cal II, Cal III, and two regarding Differential Equations.

edit: Found the title for the others.

Oh, so you don't have any prior college math experience (including AP classes)? You'd definitely be starting behind then, since your average engineering major is probably going to be starting out having already done single-variable calc and maybe multivariable calc.

Oh yeah, and you'd probably have to take some statistics class too, forgot about that.

Howdy, what can I do ya for?
...
Oh I see, A man can tell when he's not wanted.

**** those nancy disciplines. Civil/Structural is where it's at.

http://www.northwestcraneservice.com/Portals/0/100_0748.jpg

I've designed this:

http://www.futurecity.co.uk/case_studies/Snow-Hill1.jpg

Which is an office block in Birmingham

And this:

http://www.mjncolston.co.uk/img/projects/47.jpg

Which is an aircraft hangar at Stansted Airport. The doors have a box girder spanning 120m clear over them. It took two 300 tonne cranes doing a tandem lift to get that up on the lattice columns that carry them.

The maths on the course is the least challenging of all the engineering disciplines, but that doesn't mean it's easy.

Plus I've got a hard hat and hi-vis jacket in my car.

cool

I know. The jacket is a high point.

How old are you and how much math have you taken? Since your starting at Pre Calc i'm going to assume you left off somewhere around college level algebra.

I'm currently studying engineering (civil). Like you, I'm not too fond of math. I made it through Calc 1, 2, and 3 and currently feeling my way through Differential Equations. Linear Algebra will come in the summer. I'm guessing these are the two that you didn't know the name of.

The problem with engineering classes is they usually require some physics and chemistry, and physics/chemistry usually require at least Calc 1 and maybe 2 so you have to jump through a bunch of hoops before you get to your first lower level engineering classes like materials/statics and whatnot. You will apply a lot of the math in your engineering classes but it's somewhat enjoyable because it's not so abstract.

If you take summer classes it will go by fast. I've been in community college FOREVER because I couldn't figure out wtf I wanted to study and didn't start on that engineering/math path until I had taken 4 years of random classes and it will be 5 or 6 years by the time I transfer.

Also CS/Math.

Unless you're taking courses designed for math majors, or upper-division courses, you're going to learn mathematical recipes. They aren't going to throw a lot of pure math at you. And even if they did, professors are going to assume you never actually learned anything in high school anyway. If you can add 1 to a polynomial fraction you'll likely be ahead of the curve.

Martyn - That's awesome. Would you BS with me on AIM or MSN or whatever you have about what you do? I haven't talked to as many engineers as I would like....

Same here, I may hit you up or just PM if you about it.

Also, here is the general courses I am looking at:

Mechanical Engineering Course Requirements:

Math:

MTH 1304 - Precalculus
MTH 1321 - Calculus I
MTH 1322 - Calculus II
MTH 2311 - Linear Algebra
MTH 2321 - Calculus III
MTH 3325 - Ordinary Differential Equations
MTH 3326 - Partial Differential Equations

Physics:

PHY 1422 - General Physics I
PHY 2435 - General Physics II

Chemistry:

CHE 1301 - Basic Principles of Modern Chemistry I

Computer Science:

CSI 1336 - Computer Algorithms with Engineering Applications
CSI 3439 - Digital Computer Fundamentals

English:

ENG 3300 - Technical and Professional Writing

Statistical Science:

STA 3381 - Probability and Statistics


The highest math education I have is a MTH 1304 Equivalent, it was an AP Precal class in HS, but that's been almost 4 years ago now.

Better yet, in the real world you will spend literally minutes every day wondering "why did I spend so much time learning calculus because my computer does it all for me?"

Seriously, once you leave uni/school/whatever and get a job the maths is done by software and you just need to be able to understand how it works. Unfortunately that requires you to understand the building codes that you work with back to front and it is into that discipline you will pour all your time.

If you put a gun to my head and said "Martyn, how do even begin to do partial differential equations?" I'd be whistling through a shiny new bullet hole in my head. If on the other hand you asked "what's the table in the steel code for buckling stress of welded sections?" I'd tell you with gusto "Table 17!"

I'm going to school to be an engineer right now (getting a BS in Fire Protection and Safety Technology). I thought the same thing you think about practical math, so I chose an engineering focused technology degree thinking it'd be much more practically focused than theoretically focused. I was kind of right, but not in a way that really matters. I still ended up taking the expected math courses (Calc I and II and Differential equations, plus statistics if you consider that so) a year of chemistry and a semester of physics, statics, and strength of materials, plus all the other general education requirements...the only difference that I can tell is that my physics class didn't HAVE to be calculus based (i kind of wish I had chosen that one anyway, though) and my major-specific classes are very practical and specific.

For example, as far as more theory based classes go, I've taken the above mentioned math, physics, and chemistry classes, and thermodynamics and hydraulics are also included, and later on fire dynamics and some other very specific classes.

Long story short: if you're concerned with getting a practical degree, I recommend field-specific technical engineering degrees if there are some available to you. Just don't expect to get it much easier on the math, because it's still an engineering degree.

Edit: What Martyn said. I have a very low opinion of higher education for that very reason. You'd think from looking at my transcript that I'd be spurting calculus solutions out of my ears by now, especially if I had taken the calculus based physics, and ESPECIALLY considering how all those classes were structured around proving you could do calculus, not UNDERSTANDING calculus...but the truth is that I immediately forgot most of that beyond basic understanding of theory and I now work almost entirely with codes and standards.

So what exactly do you do Martyn? The only reason I was considering mechanical engineering is because I'm good at working on machines, and can understand them fairly easily. From what I've read, MEs work on a huge variety of mechanical applications, which would give me confidence in finding work.

Chaps, feel free to hit me up on PM here, or IM.

I'm easiest to find on GTalk (m a r t y n p i e [ a t ] g m a i l [ d o t ] c o m)

Or swap out the gmail for hotmail for MSN messenger.

I'm a structural engineer.

I used to work for a specialist steelwork Design and Build firm, now I work at a small consultancy nearer home. I'm currently involved with a small garage (as in one that sells and fixes cars) - I''ve designed the steel frame, the foundations, the cladding, pretty much everything. I'm going to site in the morning to check the concrete pour for the main slab.

I'm also involved with an extension to the Owners and Trainers stand at the York Racecourse which is a prestige job - steel design (again), stairs in concrete, general construction details, managing some sub-trades etc. Cool stuff.

Right now I'm doing some hand calcs (between posts here <.<) for a loft conversion. Jobs big and small, all interesting. Later tonight I'll be doing some steelwork connections for a sugar plant.

What are the major differences between the jobs that Civil Es will end up doing vs Structural? One better than the other? At this point in my studies they are about the same so I haven't really had to pick yet.

I'm finishing up my Junior year an a EE program. You really have to be dedicated to make it through unless you're just really smart. It's very easy to get discouraged, especially if you're used to just getting good grades because you put effort into a class. In electrical at least, you will be doing difficult math and physics beyond the standard Calc 1-DE and Physics 1 & 2 courses.

You can do it though, it's just a matter of dedication.

Our firm does both, but by and large the dividing line is the ground:

Everything above is structural, everything below is civil.

It's not a hard and fast rule, but it covers most things. Notable grey areas are things like foundations - below ground but undeniably structural. Civils tends to be things like drainage, cut and fill, roads, slope analysis and soil analysis.

Personally I'm trying to pick up civils skills, but I'm snowed under with structural jobs at the moment. To add to that list of stuff I'm on with at the moment is a couple of estimates for a firm that builds almost exclusively in cold-formed steel studwork. They want to build a small school in Gibraltar out of it. That's a swine to design by hand...

Yes, engineering is one of those majors where you go through your entire life getting good grades and having everyone tell you you're really smart, and then you get to college and about halfway through you realize you're a terrible student and you're definitely not smart enough to make up for it. So if you're one of those people, make yourself a good student BEFORE you get to the part where you have to be.

And as soon as you get in over your head ASK FOR HELP. You'll be surprised how good your lecturers are at understanding that there's a lot to take in and they'll be happy you're putting in the effort.

Great input, glad you guys are here to provide info. I'll try to hit you up on MSN martyn. I'm mostly interested in the education side of your experience, as I don't think structural (or civil) engineering would be for me.

I've been saying "Civil" all this time because I thought civil was all the things that you just said structural is....so....from now on I'm studying structural

You've made the right choice

Although, maybe just check your local dialect for mistranslation

(But yeah, structural is steel/concrete/timber/masonry/whatever stuff sticking out of the ground)

You could go to speed school...


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

No really, mechanical engineering is retardedly broad, and easy to be pigeon holed in if you don't specialize in an area that is readily applicable to lots of things.

For the record Martyn WILL talk you into being a Civvie.

I ended up studying mechanical in the end anyway.

Protip: You should try and probably fail at many things before deciding what you really want to do. Unless you enjoy the prospect of doing something you hate to earn a living. Happiness is far more important than money.

I enjoy designing buildings. I win!

I enjoy building engines. I win harder!

Until you need a roof over your head to build one

(this could go on all night and really need to finish this extension work...)

I did Maths / Mech Eng.

The maths part of the degree was much, much harder than the maths in the MechEng part, which seemed to consist more of remembering how to solve moments and stiochiometry and lots of looking up tables.

To be honest I can't think of an instance (aside from the theory behind integration needed for moments of area) where the maths was even slightly abstract. Nearly everything was tied to a problem.

But I'm mainly educated to deal with flows. Heavy applied maths and engines.

And since I've only seen one position I felt I was qualified for, I've been looking for lab work based on my A-levels.

Moral: Do full engineering, and don't get (the equivalent of) a third.

You don't need a degree to do roofing.

Rufio Sanchez Aljuarez did my roof just fine. He can't speak english. And he was drunk as hell.

Whatever you choose, go to a school with a good co-op program. That matters more than ANYTHING else. At RIT, we're required to have four quarters (one calendar year) of co-op experience before we graduate. That means when we apply for entry level positions, we already have one year of real job experience. Candidates without co-ops or at least internships will be tossed aside against those who have the experience.

It's one of the main reasons why Microsoft recruiters prefer RIT students over those from MIT, Stanford, Cal Tech, etc. Your fancy education and 4.0 GPA don't mean a goddamn thing compared to real world experience.

Can Rufio do the roof on a two acre garage where engines are mass produced?

Mechanical Engineer, currently working on structural and vibration analysis for airborne defense projects.

With enough beer he can probably figure it out.

You should see what the untrained mechanics do in mexico.

I'm currently studying Optical Sciences & Engineering (closest to EE, if you're looking for a comparison). A lot of times in a major like mine (or in EE), you'll see most of your difficult math in your engineering courses, not your math ones.

As far as ME, it's definitely more centered around applied mathematics.



Haha, thanks for the laugh.

Since I can draw and I'd love to design buildings, I started taking classes in architecture.

I should have went with structural engineering; architecture is all arsty with no concern for how stuff actually gets built.

Also, my parents always tried to get me to become a civil engineer. There's a guy in their church back home that does that, and not only is he stinking rich, but he loves his job and claims that he just "plays with Tonka trucks all day".