I'm in the market for a new(er) boat. I'm talking ~$30,000 so it's a very big purchase for me. On Saturday I test drove an 06 that a guy wants $29k for. He was a nice guy and the boat was in great shape upon visual inspection, but I noticed a couple of mechanical issues during the test drive (impossible to notice before putting it into the water). After confirming with some people that own boats like this that those issues are not normal (despite what the owner said), I decided not to buy the boat.

I need to email him and tell him I'm not going to buy it. The guy spent 1.5 hours + 20 bucks to launch the boat and let me drive it, so I don't want to be a dick, but at the same time, I'm not sure he was completely honest with me about the condition of the boat (I have the feeling he hit something, replaced the prop only, but there was lingering unfixed damage to transmission/v-drive and rudder).

So, when I email him, do I just say, "thanks for showing us the boat, but we decided not to buy it," or do I tell him specifically why I'm not buying it, "thanks for showing us the boat but due to some mechanical issues we are not going to buy it (specifically the ringing in the transmission/v-drive and the tracking issues [constantly pulls sharply to the right])" ???

I just have the feeling if I tell him exactly why, he'll deny it's an issue, and if I don't, then he'll ask me why... and I'll end up telling him anyway.

Blah.

Also, this is the 2nd boat I decided not to buy , the first one was supposedly in perfect condition, meticulously maintained, not a scratch, blah blah blah, but it had mold/mildew between all the seats and reeked of pine sol. I twas also supposedly garaged but his definition of a garage was a leaky tarp.

I don't think you owe him any explanation - it'll just continue discussion on something that you've already made up your mind on.

If you want to be nice, say "Thanks for showing it to me, I'm going to keep looking around for now" - a bit nicer than just saying no

I agree with murc, if you really feel like you need an excuse, tell him you're looking at other boats. He can't force you to buy it, and he made the initial 1.5 hour, 20 dollar investment on an already faulty boat, so I wouldn't even offer to fit the gas.

Thanks for input, I did just as you suggested.

As said, you don't owe him an excuse.
He's trying to sell the thing for 30,000. A little bit of his time and $20 isn't much. It should be expected that selling it won't be easy and without a little cost to himself.

If I were in your position, if you like the boat despite the problems, I'd go get a quote to fix it. Make him an offer for the difference, and a little bit extra for the inconvenience you would have to go through.

Also, my family is big on boating and such.

I think I remember you saying your a wake boarder and are pretty water sporty yourself.

As such, you should know as my family and I know, you'll never be happy with a boat purchase unless you forget about the price you spend on it. You'll always wish you had more power, something different, etc. Get the boat you want, not the boat that fits your budget.

Why would anyone logically make a major purchase that does not fit within their budget, especially for a toy? Besides, $30K cash is a lot of money. Keep looking, or stop looking, and the right boat will present itself.

Sounds like you handled it right, Brian. The guy probably knew he was trying to pull one over on you and wasn't surprised.

I think the point SK is trying to make is that a lot of people buy a boat with a budget in mind and then get frustrated later because it doesn't have the things that make it enjoyable, or they skimped and got a low quality boat that needs repairs, or rattles, or has upholstery issues, etc. So the end up selling it at a loss and then buying the more expensive one anyway.

I've had my mastercraft prostar 190 for ~6 years and I've been relatively happy with it. Much lower price though, only 11k I think, but it's time for something bigger/better/newer. I'm not throwing budget out the window, but I am probably going to end up buying something considerably more than the 30k range I'm looking in Just can't seem to find the right boat used, I may have to buy new. That puts me at 38k + tax for the cheaper brands (moomba, supreme, sanger, centurion), or 55k-65k for the more expensive ones (mastercraft, malibu, nautique, supra). I'm going to try to make a deal on a new 08 sanger left over.

Also, I'm not paying cash. Assuming I buy new @ 38k + tax (8.9%), I have about 20% down, so my payments will be $355/month for 12 years (won't take me that long to pay it off). Once I sell the boat I have now I'll put that into it as well, so I'll come out probably owing ~25k.

We're taking this step now because new left over boats in a "good" market are over $45k, so if we wait a year it will cost us even more, plus we're less than a year away from paying off our other two debts (one credit card, one car payment), and let's face it, I'm not getting any younger!

More to Wookie06: I really wanted to live debt-free, but we're settling for credit card debt-free instead. The way we look at it is that as long as we have sizeable down payments on things like cars & boats, as long as they are worth more than we own on them by a considerable margin, we can always sell them if we have to. (Debts backed by assets, I guess.)

Oh, I understand holding out to buy what you really want as opposed to settling for something lower and then never being satisfied with it but to disregard the budget would be immature. His advice would be more practical if he was advocating waiting until the boat you really wanted fit into your budget.

I'm not going to argue the debt issue with you because I understand what you are going through. When it comes to financing a toy like that, though, the depreciation is so great and the interest is so front loaded it is ridiculous. At least you are looking at used boats. I'm going through similar urges with regards to vehicles now since it is definitely a buyers market now. I really would like to buy a new-ish vehicle however I will never finance anything again, with the possible exception of another home. Still, I have two of those now so unless I sell them both and make a sizable down payment elsewhere I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Asset backed securities are the "safest" way to incur debt, though they're still risky, especially in this market. I know this is your financial decisions, and I certainly don't have all the facts, but remember - if things get crappy and you lose your income, there may not be people who want to buy your boat/car/motorcycle. Look at all the houses for sale - those were AB securities, and it didn't end well for most of the homeowners. I know there are a lot of variables involved, but the point remains valid, and even more so with "luxury" items like boats and RVs.

I agree with Wookie (OMG WTF!) - my wife and I have decided to never incur debt on anything that depreciates, which is just about everything except real property.

Meh, a boat isn't an investment in the financial sense of the word, it's an investment in FUN!!!! FREE RIDES TO ALL MASSASSIANS!!!!!111

ALL reasonable people do.

Tell him you'll give him $20,000.

Then buy $9,000 worth of coke.

Then go to Anchorage where it's worth about 20 times as much.

Then sell it and retire.

What if we only agree with your financial advice?

You know what is funny is that Jon'C, who vehemently disagrees with my economics views, agrees with practically every point I make with regards to personal and consumer finance. He's really the only person here that always argues with me at the same time he agrees with me. Makes me wonder sometimes...

Well you have to admit that consumer finance works completely differently than the big picture. If no one had any debt the economy would collapse. I'm not saying it should be that way. I think it shouldn't. But it is.

Back to the etiquette question: I wouldn't offer an explanation as to why you don't want it. it's none of his business. As for the cost of the test drive, and the time spent, that's just an expense of trying to sell something. If you feel real bad about it, you might suggest reimbursing him the $20 that it cost him to put the boat in the water, but you shouldn't feel obligated to do so, nor should you feel bad about wasting his time. If anything, he wasted your time by not being entirely up front about the issues with it.

As an alternative suggestion, if all else about the boat struck your fancy, and the mechanical issues could be reasonably fixed, you might use that as a bargaining tool. Explain what you think is wrong with it, and show him your research if possible, (if he agrees, you could even have a mechanic look at it and give you an estimate), then offer him a price that factors in the cost you'll need to spend for repairs, plus a little extra discount for your hassles.

Maybe but there are definitely certain types of debt that are bad and it is true that our country is ridiculously in debt now. Trillions of dollars of debt and spending trillions more than you have is never a good thing. If you've ever watch that John Adams miniseries one of the interesting things I noticed was when they were discussing borrowing money from other nations to establish relations with them as well as buying States debt to establish dominance over them. I found that pretty enlightening.

No offense but that's all been discussed already and the communication has already taken place. Unless you're just giving your opinions for the record. I agree, it might be fair to offer some money for the expense but I think Brian was persuaded abit by the fact that he feels the guy was not being truthful.

Debt shouldn't be looked at as negative as it applies to the broad picture; it is literally the engine that keeps the entire thing going. As the debt grows, the money supply expands along with it, but it's never actually enough to cover all outstanding debts. That's the essence of what the economy is. Musical chairs. That's how they make sure we don't just sit around all day.

Again; I'm no fan of productivism. In fact, I loathe it. But we live in a productivist world.

Okay, but the ridiculous pattern of extreme debt that seems to be virtually increasing exponentially is not healthy and, among other things, results in ever increasing inflation. Pretty soon a loaf of bread is going to cost us thousands of Rubles!

Working as intended. (A little inflation is an expected byproduct of the system too and is easily kept under control by adjusting the money supply.)

Again, okay, but they're increasing the money supply.

And our wages as well as debt. They all increase more or less proportionally.

We could make them all smaller numbers in proportion and it'd still work.

Back in my day a candy bar cost a penny and a dollar would get you 10,000 acres!

Back in my day we had to walk to school in the snow, up hill, both ways.

And we didn't have any of this fancy oxygen crap either. We had to breathe snakes!

But there is going to be a breaking point and there are modern day example of nations reaching it. I use this analogy: Our country is like the household living on credit cards. We are financing our daily expenses with credit. Come the end of the month, we pay the bills. We decide we need to increase our spending and the minimum payments continue to rise. We have reached our credit limit but want to spend more so we apply for increases in our credit limit. Again, we pay our bills. We are getting to the point that we can no longer make our minimum payments and yet we continue to spend more and more. Even in macroeconomics this philosophy does not bare out. I think it would be one thing if all of the spending, over spending, was designed to generate future revenue but that isn't the type of thing were going in debt over. That is probably where, again, Jon'C and I might agree. We are going into debt financing things that are not going to generate revenue.

Sorry, Free, I don't think we should continue this conversation in this thread. I have been told that I should start new threads to respond to quasi-off topic posts in threads. Although I only get admonished if my posts seem to be anti-credit card or bHo. And yes, Michael, that is getting cumbersome compared to just using his name or the initials I prefer to use.

Also, Brian, don't buy a damn boat. I was looking for the post, maybe it was on your pathetic, failed blog ;), but I remember your enthusiasm with regards to the realization that you were spending so much money on things you don't really need. Hang in there, buddy. You're going to make it and you can do it. Pay off your remaining debt and then save up for your boat. The right deal will present itself. I've spent the last 16 months paying off nearly $40K. That means I could have spent 16 months saving the same for something awesome. YOU CAN DO IT!

Yeah but we got rid of 90% of the crap and paid off 90% of our debt since then, and we've got the rest on track to be gone by the end of this year (except the house). It will take me ~2 years to save up $40k, but by then the economy will be better and boats will be back up to 55k-60k. I'm not saying it's a wise financial decision... but I don't think it will sink me, either.

Here's what Edward has to say:

Funny, I'm about to start trying to sell my boat. Know anyone in WA whos into old wooden powerboats? >_>

Forget thanks! Steal his lame boat!

yeah well.. i didn't read the rest of the thread :o. But yeah, that's why I said he shouldn't feel obligated, but it might be a nice gesture, if he feels a need to assuage his conscience.

Trust me, I got it. I go through tons of urges for various expensive, frivolous, luxuries and I am definitely not trying to berate you on the forums. I would just point out how much I already know you don't like to HAVE to give somebody else hundreds of dollars of your money each month. Besides, bHo still has nearly three years in office so odds are there will be plenty of bad economy for smart people to capitalize upon over the next few years. "Worst" case scenario you save the cash and find some other normal person with the boat you want that needs money far more than the boat and you practically buy it for a song. That kind of stuff happens everyday.



I know, that happens to me too sometimes!

But it has over 300 horsepower and built-in ballasts! GPS-based speed control! Full stainless steel tower with swivel board racks!

As an added bonus it also serves as a big, giant, ball and chain!