http://film.guardian.co.uk/edinburgh2004/story/0,14809,1290548,00.html

For years now, even before the World Trade Centre attacks, I've been saying that that the story of a suicide bomber would make for a fantastic drama/romance story. Perhaps with a suicide bomber torn between his cause and the love of his life, perhaps concluding with with the both of them ending their lives together.

This isn't a film but a series, depicting four of the Al Queda hijacers, and it looks to be exactly that.
Finally, some fresh, original and interesting viewing.

How well could such a story possibly do when everyone's so brainwashed that the hijackers are evil spawns of satan who hijacked the planes because they're evil and they like to see people die because they hate freedom?

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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

Because not everyone is so brainwashed.

*sigh* The terrorists are getting movies made about them. What's next? Sitcoms with the lead star being Al Qaeda's #3 man?

These people need not be romanticized but hunted down and brought to justice any way, shape, or form with utmost impunity.

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Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit, sed diam nonummy nibh euismod tincidunt ut laoreet dolore magna aliquam erat volutpat.

Did you not even read any of the above posts, or the article? Please kill your ignorance.

I think it would be interesting to watch. I think the ending would just be chilling. I dont foresee this being broadcast or distributed in the US anytime soon.



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free mp3 ~Jump - Young America

new album Between the Dim and the Dark available now

looks fascinating

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/end boob rant

But they ARE people and they have a fascinating story. Granted, this is mostly fictional, but it provides a glimpse into a secret world that we would otherwise never see into.
And it is romantic. A man that loves a cause with such passion and such loyalty that he gives his life for that cause. Not just that he is willing to die, like a soldier or a fighter, but he is willing to take his own life. That is something quite different, quite unique, and quite romantic.

I fail to see how killing thousands of innocent people in one of the most horrible ways is in any way romantic. I agree with Gandalf. Why make poeple like the terrorists? "Yeah, these people are killing us, but they really are good unique people on the inside..."
Stuff like this just makes me angry. As we speak terrorist are holding a great deal of little children hostage in Russia. They are threatening to kill them all if their demands aren't met or if the russian troops try to enter the building. This is not interesting. This is not ramantic. This is sickening. Making light of terrorism is a horrible way to desensitise people.

And how are people who don't like it brainwashed? If someone blows up a bunch of people because they hate us, and we say that they do, how is that brainwashed. Do you think that they have been attacking us because they are nice people that love us deeply?

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"Father to your hands I commend my spirirt. Father to your hands-Why have you forsaken me?"

I want a movie that shows the romance of a bomber pilot blowing up a small village.

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Roach - Gyring and gimbling in the wabe...
0 of 14.

I'd say it's romantic in the sense of the all-or-nothing view that the terrorists take towards their cause. They have this idea, where by going out in glorious splendor they will be eternally rewarded in the glorious halls of heaven.

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"Our hero chucks a few rocks..."

Pearl harbor?

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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

I just read about this in TV and Satellite Week. This sort of stuff doesn't warrant use of my tele, but it's certainly an interesting spin on things.

And has anyone wondered what the flipside of the coin is, anyway? Two different sides of an argument, each viewing the other as enemies, each having different ways of winning. Good and evil are merely viewpoints of one side towards another.

People fight for their beliefs. People sacrifice for a greater cause. Does this necessarily mean these people are evil?

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You'll see it's all a show, keep 'em laughing as you go. Just remember that the last laugh is on you.

There's nothing romantic about Ben Affleck.

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Roach - Gyring and gimbling in the wabe...
0 of 14.

I agree whole-heartedly with Gandalf.

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There is no signature

It's not about liking them or proving that they're good people. It's about looking at a situation from a different perspective? Aren't you the least bit interested in finding out what sort of thing could drive someone to that kind of action?

Quote:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">And how are people who don't like it brainwashed?

</font>[/quote]

Once again, it's not about not liking it, it's about being so close-minded to other people that you don't even consider what might be going on in their minds.

I wholeheartedly agree that everyone involved in the WTC attacks needs to be brought to justice, but don't you think there's just the tiiiiiiiiiniest possibility that there's an underlying problem that needs addressing? Happy people leading easy lives don't go around killing thousands of people.

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/end boob rant

This is exactly why the word "terrorist" shouldn't be used. Does it talk about Al Queda? Does it talk about Chechen rebels? Does it talk about the KKK, or the Kurdistan Worker's Party, or the Tamil Tigers? You have no idea, yet they are all completely different organisations.

Killing people is easy. Going into a cafe, putting a bomb down, going out, pressing a button. That isn't hard. You could do that. I could do that. Anyone could do that. It doesn't mean anything.

But putting that bomb on yourself. Carrying that bomb on yourself. Holding the button, the button that controls your life. Pressing that button, ending your life, detonating yourself.
Could you do that?
That is something different. They believe in their cause so strongly that they will kill themselves for it.
All you can do is kill them, but they do not fear death. They welcome death, death itself is their weapon. How can you fight that?


What is important is not what they do, or how many they kill, but why they do it. That is what you must think about. And don't give me some half-arsed excuse like "oh they're crazy, brainwashed".

exactly Mort-Hog, that's the fascinating part.

Anyway, I turn on the TV at 22:30, and what was on from 21:00-23:05? Hamburg Cell. Most annoying. Hopefully they'll repeat it.

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/end boob rant

Well, it was Channel 4, and there's no Channel 4 + 1 or anything. But I'm sure BBC or ITV will show it some time. It was well worth watching.
I was mistaken, it was a film, I didn't think it was. As a film, it was quite good, but not really amazing. It was the content that made it interesting, and the acting was good too.
It seems to be more factual than I had thought, too. It reads many quotes from the Al Queda handbook. I'd be fascinated to buy a copy of that.

Good point

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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

I reckon 4 will repeat it sometime, or maybe I'll get it on E4. You could have told me when it was on!!

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/end boob rant

saw it, was enjoyable.

also very scary.

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Drugs & Stupidity, Tons of it.

No it wouldn't. These people wern't desprate or that loyal at all. They were just after the 70 virgens.

[This message has been edited by Obi_Kwiet (edited September 02, 2004).]

That's called "The News."

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Map-Review | My Portfolio | The Matrix: Unplugged

Banks and banks of humming machinery! I've never seen so many knobs. We're going to have to do something, Charlie! Try pushing that button there. No? How about that one? No, not that one either. I know! I'll try pushing this one. Hold my hat will you? Good fellow.

And Obi_Kwiet's shocking ignorance of Isl..well, his shocking ignorance of everything he posts about is once again on display.



Good question. It's great that we have people such as yourselves who know that the hijackers were just misunderstood and actually had a good point about American imperialistic foreign policy. Without you, we'd be what I like to call "mindless sheeple," and forever consigned to ignorance.



You can find it on the Internet. It is the most unambiguous rejection of everything decent I've ever read. Can't remember the exact quote, but there's a part that basically claims Islam (their version, of course) has no place for dialogue or discussion and speaks only the language of violence. Chilling.

I didn't see it, but I think you really have to look at how someone can change from being a 'normal' relatively harmless man into a terrorist who'll forfeit his own life in the name of a violent cause.

Looking at this from the terrorist point of view doesn't glorify them, but it may just open some eyes to the warning signs of such a transformation. Because for one, I don't believe all terrorists who kill numerous people were 'evil' to start with.

Perhaps seeing your parents, brothers, sisters killed, perhaps that is the warning sign of such a transformation.
The surest way to succeed in the "war on terror" is to stop creating new 'terrorists'.
The children of Iraq, they will grow up knowing only conflict. Those that grow up without parents because of the American bombs, who will they see as the 'enemy'?
They are the new generation of fighters, the new generation of Al Queda perhaps, or a new generation of resistance soldiers. And these will be different. The people today, they grew up during the Cold War, learning standard military procedure from fighting the Soviets in Afganistan, amongst other conflicts. This new generation, they won't think like that, they won't fight like that.
They will be deadlier than anything we've seen so far.

[This message has been edited by Mort-Hog (edited September 03, 2004).]

Oooohkk...im sorry but this post is just ridiculous.

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"If there's one thing I've learned it's this - you just can't shake hands with a fist" - David Allen Coe

Then you must not understand a word of it, because it made perfect sense.

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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

Let's see. Terrorists hijack passenger airliners. Terrorists slam passenger airliners into civilian and military buildings at 400 mph killing thousands of Americans and themselves. Hmm. I guess you're right. They ain't evil. Just misunderstood.



Let's see. They believe that Israel is an invader in Muslim territory that must be purged at all costs. They hate Israel with all the passion of their being and seeing how the US is a strong supporter of Israel, they feel that it justifies the murder of thousands of innocent people. They hate Christians because of what we believe. Because we support Israel. Because we live in a country that supports Israel.



They HATE us. They want to kill us simply because we live in a country that supports another country that they themselves believe to be invaders. So what do they do? They commit the cowardly act of killing thousands of innocent people for their 'cause.' The fact that they wish to kill me simply for existing and living in America does not, in any way, make me sympathetic to their cause.

[This message has been edited by Grundy (edited September 03, 2004).]

Sounds interesting, but I fail to see how the whole thing can be remotely associated with the word 'romantic'...

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Corrupting the kiddies since '97

Someone better keep their eyes on the Germans, we killed an entire generation of their sons...twice. Or the Japanese, we did something that still results in birth defects to this day.

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Roach - Gyring and gimbling in the wabe...
0 of 14.

Is it just me, or are Mort-Hog's posts genuinely disturbing?

Dude, I'm all for looking at things from another perspective, but it seems these days that no one likes to blame the terrorists themselves for their own actions. It's always someone else's fault, but not their own. Personally, I blame the radical Islamic (sub)culture itself in the Middle East. If they would educate their own children for peace, it would make quite a difference within their society. Well, easier said than done anyway.

And, I'm not sure how many of you agree with me, but I percieve Suicide Bombers as some of the most vile scum of our day. I find it neither honorable nor romantic, just plain sick. When their society consistantly glorifies these suicide bombers as figures to live up to (who they say are in heaven with 72 virgins), many people are swayed. Constantly, they are made to seem like the "victims", when they, as a culture, have done nothing to stop these disgusting acts, only perpetuate it further. Very large peaceful demonstrations would go a much longer way to help their cause, whatever that may be.

Mort-Hog, they do not just "love a cause with such passion that they are willing to "give" their lives for it". They "give" their lives by deliberately taking as many innocent people with them as possible. I fail to see the honor in that.

IMHO, this thread seems like cultural relativism at it's lowest. But that might be just me thinking that...

they're disturbing because he's goddamn wrong, and for no other reason

Radical Islamic terrorists hate the U.S. and its allies for a number of reasons, be it for our intervention in their affairs during the Cold War to our support of Israel, though I'm in no way saying their actions are justified.

But I'm sure people like Mort-Hog will be so amazed by the courage of the suicide bomber that boards his or her bus that they'll be glad to have the opportunity to meet these people face-to-face and get a real inside look into the minds of these people. It would be absolutely fascinating. Really, it would.

Well, I shall now go on with my brainwashed life, believing that people who intentionally target civilians with the intent to kill aren't courages, misunderstood warriors devoted to their cause.

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<ubuu> does hitler have a last name?
<jipe> .. yes, Ubuu, we're racist commy nazi jews, and we hate male pattern baldness
<Professor`K> Sorry, but half-way through your logic, my head exploded

[This message has been edited by Wolfy (edited September 03, 2004).]

Wow. That would scare me if it had any logic behind it. Just out of curiousity, I'd like to know a few things. How are kids with no combat experience armed with soviet weapons that continue to outdate themselves, how are they deadlier than people who actually fought against and repelled the Red Army? Scarier than people who aren't rookies and people that know what they are doing? It doesn'y make sense. And as someone here said, we did the same to the Japs and the Germans. Why aren't blowing us up, according to your logic? Anyhoo, how exactly are we creating terrorists? They bomb our embassies, assasinate our people, take out our innocent people. We hadn't done anything to these people. In fact, we had helped them. We gave them weapons to help fight of the soviets. We sure didn't create them . And so now we punish them and root them out, and you say that we're making more and more of them? But that makes even less sense once you think about it. Seeing your parents, brothers and sisters killed for murdering people that they didn't even know makes terrorists. Seeing your parents, brothers, and sisters murdered when a man blows up their bus makes people brainwashed and responsible for the terrorists themselves. Yes, your right. It's all our fault.

We actually did kind of fork with the Middle Eastern governments during the Cold War.

And that word tends to be considered offensive.

...

Did he say they were "misunderstood"? No. He said that people dismiss "terrorists" (or at least the terrorists that they are currently fighting) as "evil" as if that's some kind of explanation. As if the suicide bombers wake up and and think "Today I'm going to strap some explosives to myself/hijack a plane/whatever and kill myself" for no other reason than they are "evil". To deny there are tangible reasons behind the terrorists' actions, rather than some abstract notion of "generally being evil" is an incredibly ignorant and damaging mistake to make.

Are their actions excusable? No, but they are explanable. "Because they're evil" isn't an explantion.

In this thread? No - my completely serious and well-honed post that was meant to be taken literally was addressed more to the things you hear from such people in general, not anything said specifically here.

ultimate potato.... the first few lines of your post, my answer to why these people may be more dangerous is:

their peers will use their ability to brainwash them into the ideals of jihad and suicide attacks.... thats why they're more dangerous... their weapons mean nothing.... what do they need guns for when their targets are large groups of unsuspecting civilians?

thats the whole point of terrorism.