Hah. I wonder if the guy who posted that got tased/beat/maced beyond reason.

**** the police.

**** you too

I really only hate city cops. Troopers are generally cool, at least in Texas they are.

I have nothing against policemen.

Yeah some of them are pricks.. But I don't think about it like that. I think about it like:

Some people are pricks. Some of those pricks happen to be police officers.

Exact opposite here. Everyone in my neighborhood knows the cops here, they're really friendly and look out for the neighborhood. I'm sure in the worse neighborhoods in Baltimore they're probably more aggressive, though.

Troopers here are huge f***ing pricks. One threatened to arrest my sister for having expired tags.

And most of the pricks in this world aren't cops. They just have to deal with them all the time.

chellovecks

All of this makes sense. A world without officers is a world I'd much rather not live in.

dont tase me bro

*tases pommus*

do police in the uk get to use tasers?

Some of them, but most of them crack skulls or use CS spray.

That's pretty much a scenario where not all cops are dicks, but a lot of the ones you end up dealing with are.

Hey JLee what do police think about people who buy used(?) police cars and drive them around

Also how much faster than the speed limit can we go before you pull us over

Some people will stop you for a few mph over...I am way lenient and usually don't stop 'till 12-ish over.



People who buy them for cheap cars or people who drive them because they want to look like cops?

Those things scare the crap out of me sometimes since they usually close more distance than typical cruisers before they stand out followed by that split-second OhShi- moment.

Cop cars don't bother me when I see them on the road. That's because I obey traffic laws. It's really just that easy.

Anyone who *****es about getting pulled over and getting a ticket is just as stupid as someone who smokes 3 packs a day then tries to sue Phillip Morris when they get lung cancer.

...WHAT?!

*spits out cigarette*

PHILLIP MORRIS IS GONNA GIVE ME CANCER?! THAT *******!

Cops are *******s.

JLee isn't a cop, he's a Massassian, so he's ok (but just barely, you watch your ass!). But every other cop is a dick. Including my cousin.

This.

Traffic laws are arbitrary and fundamentally unfair.

I'm unsure if you are being sarcastic here, or actually being truthful. Knowing the distaste for anything law enforcement related on these boards, I'm assuming you believe it? If not, then disregard whatever I am saying.

Traffic laws are laid out and you know them. I'm pretty sure you go through Driver's Ed, get tested on them, and then have to take the 50 question test to even get your temporary license. I think if people actually FOLLOWED rules driving would be decent. Case in Point: 4-Way stops. The rules are pretty much specifically laid out, even when you have 4 cars arriving at the same time. If people actually used turn signals, you'd be able to tell who goes first, who is crossing the path of the person on the right's traffic, etc. Even if they are all going straight, you clearly just yield until SOMEONE goes, and then the rules become absolutely clear and you proceed. But absolutely no one follows the rules and just decides to go when they feel like it. Maybe ENFORCEMENT might be arbitrary. And I don't know how letting someone blow through a red light isn't "fair", that seems to me to be a pretty good rule for safety. If you just follow the traffic laws, you have a pretty good chance of not getting pulled over.

Also, re: speed limit, I usually go by the 10% rule to consider myself safe. Certain areas I watched my speed a lot closely, but if I'm in an interstate that is 70mph, I usually feel safe going 77MPH.

Also a question for you all. Back in the high school days, was there anything you noticed about people's drivers test scores in regards to what kind of driver they were? Seemed to me that the people who actually did the best on the test, were the most bat**** insane drivers I had ever seen once they got their license. Obviously the causation/correlation is not there, but just asking what you guys noticed.

I will agree that speed limits and 4 way stops are easy to understand. However, there are so many areas of traffic laws that are so stupid the freaking cops don't even understand. I'll give you two examples:

On a two-lane highway with wide shoulders, a car was stopped in the lane with its left blinker on. Clearly the driver intended to turn left and was waiting for oncoming traffic to clear to make the turn. My sister was behind said car and went around it on the right shoulder. Cop saw it, pulled her over and gave her a ticket for "leaving the roadway." He put down the specific RCW (WA state law) on the ticket. When she showed it to me I looked up the law and it specifically stated that the "roadway" was defined as the paved road, and actually specifically pointed out that it's legal to pass on the right like that as long as you don't go off the pavement (which she didn't).

To get it cleared up, she had to subpoena the officer (didn't show up the first time, stupid judge, instead of dismissing the ticket, postponed it again), then subpoena him again, then show up again, and when he finally showed up and she presented her case, he admitted that he couldn't even see whether her tire left the pavement. He (THE COP) thought it was illegal to pass on the right like that (it's not). Huge waste of time, money, effort, etc., since the courthouse is literally an hour away from where my sister lives.

Second example, it's illegal to cross a "raised barrier" which was intended to stop people from driving over curbs, I guess. I read in the paper some guy got a ticket for merging too early on the freeway (he crossed double-white lines that separate the merge lane from the real freeway). He got cited for crossing a "raised barrier." After going through the court system he gets convicted and still doesn't know why he was ticketed in the first place so he wrote this "road warrior" column author asking if he knew what was up.

Apparently some court case 20 years ago decided that two white lines separated by at least 6" of space is now considered a "raised barrier." Now, you tell me how the average person is supposed to know something like this? Not only do we have to read the literal War and Peace length RCWs but also every court case ever decided clarifying such laws.

It's not as cut and dried as you guys think.

Brian, I agree those are terrible examples, but like I said, that first instance is a great example of BAD ENFORCEMENT, maybe not bad laws. The cop obviously didn't know the rule and was mistaken.

In the second case, yeah, I would agree that was a stupid rule and that no one knew. But, aren't you taught anyways not to merge until you get past the white lines anyway. Like everyone does it, even I do it, but technically, you are taught in Driver's Ed (at least I was) to not merge over the white line. Everyone does it like I said. But in that case again, I'd say it's the enforcement that's the problem, not the rules. If he wouldn't of merged early, he wouldn't of gotten the ticket :/.

My big issue with driving is obviously enforcement, not the rules. If you follow all the rules to the T, you shouldn't get a ticket. If you do follow the rules and get ticketed, that's enforcement problem not the rules. It's the cops ****-up. Now don't get me wrong, the fact that cops are very immune to any sort of response to this is a whole other argument entirely

Again, don't get me wrong, I am in full agreeance with you. Your sister and that guy probably shouldn't of gotten a ticket in the grand scheme of things (your sister DEF should not have gotten one). 99% of the times people don't get ticketed for this, but that 1% sometimes does. That's enforcement, not "bad rules". Especially regarding the "raised barrier" one, you aren't supposed to merge over double whites anyway. I'm pretty sure some states sometimes say they encourage people who merge early if for some reason waiting too long isn't safe (I think it's called Dynamic Late Merging and is some system of letting drivers know when it's safe to merge), but again, then this is an enforcement problem. Yeah sometimes it's impossible to know these rules, but in that first case it was an enforcement problem, and the second case there's technically a good chance he shouldn't of merged across double-whites in the first place.

For the first one... I don't know... don't pass people on the shoulder? That seems like pretty much common sense.

The second one... I was always taught to never cross any double lines of any color. Pretty easy.

Maybe things like this are why I have never been pulled over even though I've been driving for a decade now. My dad follows these same rules, and he's been driving for about 35 years and has never been pulled over. Same with my mother. You'll find that if you pay attention to traffic laws and don't break them, you will not get pulled over. It's not hard to keep up with the laws once you understand what they are, and you're required to do that in order to even have a license. I will never feel sorry for anyone who gets a ticket because they didn't understand a law.

It's technically illegal in this state to pass ANYONE on the right. Even with two lanes going the same direction. If some guy gets in the left lane and drives slow, it is illegal to pass him.

Now, you can say, what cop is going to enforce that? And you're right; they don't enforce it. But here's the rub - every stupid un-enforced law like that undermines the authority of laws that are actually of value.

I've never been in a situation where I would need to pass on the right. In ten years of driving I can't remember a notable time when I was on the freeway and the guy in the left lane just wasn't going fast enough to suit me.

I can't find the study right now, but someone tried removing traffic control devices from intersections and other roads in a small town in Europe. They found that people were safer drivers without traffic control. People respected each other and were careful to preserve their well being, instead of following control devices for the sake of the law.

She didn't pass a moving vehicle on the right, she went past a vehicle that was stopped, waiting to turn left. As I mentioned, it's perfectly legal, so your idea to not do it, even though it's legal, is stupid. I'm sure had she known she was going to be pulled over, she wouldn't have done it, but how can you possible know ahead of time that you're going to get pulled over for doing something legal? Gimme a break.

Passing on the shoulder isn't legal no matter how much you think it is. No sympathy from me when people whine about getting tickets because they dont' know the driver code.

Yeah, I think you are referring to the one done in Germany / Netherlands. They were done only in small small towns though, and some of their methods for making things safer was actually putting playgrounds near roads / intersections as I guess people look out for children more than adults. And the traffic control devices were not so much lights, but street signs. They haven't completely eliminated them yet, but they are planning to. Also, it's not as if they kept all the roads the same. They converted the squares into roundabouts. As a pedestrian though, having walked around European cities, it is quite impossible to find streets and locations. I think we all can identify those drivers in the US, the ones you can tell don't really know where they are going. Often times they make some pretty stupid mistakes. It is definitely working in those small towns, but it also has an unintended consequence of making things difficult for pedestrians in terms of safe places to cross and such. I do not think that this would be plausible in a place like New York or LA or Chicago.

Also, I really don't think driving is the same in Europe as it is in the US. People really don't "drive" in Europe to go visit places because they have extensive metro systems and extensive high speed trains that make it more cost-efficient to use them than to drive. A lot more people I would have to believe road trip in the US, or at least visit "foreign" cities in different states with driving. Those that do have cars in Europe generally stay within the confines of the city and probably have a good knowledge of the city itself and where they are going. I just can't see a system without traffic controls also working with the amount of old people that still drive in US.

But the general incentive is certainly interesting and is definitely something that is worthy of investigation. Making things more dangerous to technically make them safer. I remember one of my teachers said that there would hardly be any accidents if we stuck a huge metal spike in the middle of the steering wheel :P. I know right around my neighborhood back home they've converted a few lights into roundabouts and it is working wonders.

Yeah. The fact that she didn't know she was going to get pulled over for it is irrelevant. You're not allowed to pass on the shoulder. It is illegal no matter how much you think it shouldn't be.

That's actually kinda the reason why seatbelt laws were implimented. Back in the day, before seatbelts were required in cars, the common cause of death in a car accident was impailment on the steering column.

But seriously, it is illegal to pass on the shoulder. It is concidered to be unsafe driving and aggressive. The 'pavement' is the part of the road that is most commonly driven on.

Antony and Avenger -- clearly you didn't read my post. It most certainly IS LEGAL and the judge threw out the ticket (dismissed the charges) when the case was finally heard. It may very well be illegal in your state, but since you keep on insisting that she did something illegal, and since you don't believe me when I say the judge threw it out, I'll post the law for you. It's right there on washington state's OFFICIAL LAW WEB SITE:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.115


Will you please shut up now? Thanks

The shoulder is not considered part of the roadway. No, I will not shut up.



http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.04.500