I'm coming up on my senior year, and I'm trying to get a good feel for where I want to go to college at. I've got a few picks that are top of the stack, most of which are within a few hundred miles and I've at least seen before. Midwest is apparently a good place to live if you want engineering schools. \m/

Unfortunately, some of the schools I'm interested in are not within a few hundred miles of my house, or there's no way I could visit them all because my summer's remainder is either full or, well, done with. I can (and have/will) look up the schools online to get some basic information, but anything I've looked up so far has been generic "Yeah, my college is DA BESTEST IN DA WHOOOOOOLE WORLD! I learned a LOT from our GRADE A, INTERNATIONAL, CULTURALIZED FACULTY!" that really doesn't tell me anything at all. It doesn't give me a feel for what actual student life is like, it doesn't tell me what the campus is like, so on, so forth.

As far as majors, I'm looking at either Nuclear Engineering or Electrical Engineering. The latter I would plan to couple with a double major in Computer Science to basically get a Computer Engineering degree, but a little more in depth. Chemical engineering isn't out of the question, but it's a distant third choice. Naturally, my major selection could do with some fine-tuning (especially the EE/CS part) but they all three feel like areas I could work in and keep interested in my topic area.

I don't expect miracles out of this, but I know some Massassians have attended or have been involved with some of the schools I'm interested in. Any information I can get is useful, and I appreciate all of it.

Schools at the top of the list:

• University of Illinois-Urbana (Nuke-E or EE/CS, but not Chem-E)
• Rose Hulman Institute of Technology (EE/CS or Chem-E, but no Nuke-E)
• Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Nuke-E or EE/CS, probably Chem-E too)

Schools that I'm still considering:

• Purdue University (Nuke-E, mainly)
• University of Michigan (Nuke-E, mainly)

Schools I've thought about but I have no ideas on:

• Rochester Institute of Technology (just took note a while back from all the -ians)
• Colorado School of Mines (Sounds good, they've been good about contacting me)
• Missouri School of Science and Tech or whatever the hell Rolla is called now (where my father got a Chem-E degree, so a school I'd look at for Chem-E mainly)
• Illinois Institute of Technology (I really want info on this one, if possible)

My father has said good things about MIT, RHIT, Purdue, UofI, MST, and CSM, the others he's not really familiar with. But he also works primarily with chemical and mechanical engineers, so electrical/nuclear/computer are out of his knowledge base. I've been to UofI and RHIT a lot so I know the feel of those campuses.

Illinois seems a bit too big, but I still like it. a 40-50k student body just seems too big, and I feel like I'd be a bit too much of just a statistic, especially in my freshman/sophomore classes. Rose is amazing in terms of education (see here), with it being a tiny school with no grad-work, so no TAs (they pride themselves on this), no research going on, just excellent profs teaching classes of 15-20. Unfortunately, I would also like something a bit larger than Rose-- 2000 students. I've walked around that campus, it's very personal, which I like, but at the same time, it's not very different from my high school now, which is a bit on the smaller side (which I don't hate, I just want a change in scenery).

That's why MIT appeals to me, it's a larger campus (5000 people, I believe?) with equally brilliant (for the most part) people around me, and it's located in a major city. Larger student body, larger city, big change. But the fact that MIT is primarily a post-graduate school, I'm afraid I'd get taught less by professors and more by TAs (nothing against you guys, I know some of you are better teachers than the professors anyway). And, moving 1/3 of the way across the country would be a large change; if I get more serious about MIT, I'll try to get a visit sometime.

Thanks guys, I appreciate any and all help and information about these schools.

I would help you but I didn't visit any of those schools except MIT (to go to BBoy practice of all things.. and Pope John Paul II died while I was there) and Michigan and I don't really remember too much >_< I go to Penn, tho, good school except not that good for engineering

Goddammit even Zloc is getting more highly educated than me!

You probably already know this, but it's something a lot of high school guidance counselors won't tell you: Engineering and CS involve a lot of math.

Engineering is really really heavy on applied mathematics, especially calculus. Your first year and a half will be a whirlwind tour of real analysis, complex analysis and linear algebra. You'll be drilled on it.

The CS algorithmics requirements are going to deal with some fairly dense mathematical proofs, abstract algebra and a lot of combinatorics and discrete mathematics. You'll probably want to take linear algebra so you can take coding theory, which you'll need for cryptography and signal processing. You won't see much calculus unless you want to take courses about numerical methods. CS numerical methods courses are much more difficult than numerical methods courses offered by other departments.

Keep in mind that if you're not good at math, you might not be very successful in either program. Engineering would be a good fit if you're comfortable with the way they teach math in high school; that is, an objective-oriented approach to math education. Proof-based mathematics and algorithmics courses have a very high fail/drop rate (above 75% at my school, according to some CS and Math professors I've talked to.)

MIT is one of the best schools in the world, if not the best school in the world, for EECS.

You'll be a statistic in your freshman/sophomore classes regardless of what school you attend or how large the undergraduate population is.

This is a really bad thing, actually.

For starters, you aren't going to find great professors at a teaching school, because great professors want to do research. At a teaching school you'll find some excellent, passionate educators, but the bulk of them are going to be PhDs who weren't even good enough to get a postdoctoral fellowship.

Secondly, this really cuts down on your opportunities. If you're good enough you can get paid research experience as early as your first year, which is a major coup if you ever want to go into academia (or even if you just want a good letter of recommendation from a professor.)

Most undergrad stuff is so hurf durf that it doesn't matter who teaches you, and you'll usually never even know the difference unless you ask them.

Jon's right on the money. Especially about so-called "teaching colleges," which are going to charge you $50,000 a year for an education that won't be any better than what you'd get for far less at a decent state school. Think very hard before deciding to go to a high-cost, low-prestige school.

Yeah, you should spend your undergraduate at the least expensive school you can find and start considering all these big places after that. Had anyone told me this I would've saved a big pile of money.

And as Jon`C said: The difference between good and bad professors I've had is whether or not they're doing research. Good professors are part of their field.

Gordon Freeman went to MIT. Thats all you really need to know (I don't know much about any of those schools!).

Just say no to those tech schools you have listed there at the bottom. Not only is the quality of education substandard compared to a university, you also ultimately get nothing out of it since most do not give degrees only certs.

I dint go to no fancy nancy skool & luk at me!

I looked at Rose's website a little bit, turns out I was an idiot when I said there was no research going on. There are research opportunities, so the professors are involved with their field. Apparently they do also offer a Masters program, although I don't know of anyone who has gone through it. I've talked to a bunch of Rose graduates, however, and they all left the school pleased with their education and feeling well prepared for any engineering. So there is research going on at the school (although I'm unsure if I want to pursue anything past a BS) which fulfills one of the criteria Jon and Vornskr spoke against. And the anecdotal evidence as well.

I trust what Jon and Vornskr say, but is there anything else against a school of Rose's type? I know college rankings are generally stupid, but does the #1 in the nation for undergraduate engineering programs hold no real water? How about the people I've talked to from Rose who are very competent and successful engineers?

Obviously, MIT and UofI are both good choices for my top 3 as well.

Edit: And Jon, you're correct, I already knew engineering is a math-intensive field. My high school is known for pushing out engineering students (most of whom end up sticking with the program) in a surprisingly large amount considering we're a public high school. I've got a good background in physical sciences and my math is definitely up to spec.

Just a thought ... I know you touched on this briefly in your OP, you should also consider (strongly) the other (non-academic) facets of the school you go to as well because what your four year experience is like will have an impact on how you develop and as much as it sounds silly having a good fulfilling experience and being able to do what you want to do outside of academics (be it socially, trying new things, living in a particular city, etc) matter a lot, in my opinion. I love my school not just because of the academics but because of the people there, "experience" -- as fuzzy and vague as that sounds. If you haven't already, I would recommend you talk to as many people that are into as many different things from the schools you're most interested as possible and ask them what it's like there day-to-day and semester-to-semester.

FWIW I have a number of friends at MIT, some of whom are having a great time and others that are pretty much in robot mode 24/7. There is a lot of crossover b/t MIT, Harvard, and Wellesley (i.e. people visit the other campuses a lot). The frat scene at MIT, depending who you ask, is actually not that bad if you find the right ones, although there are a lot of tools (as there would be anywhere). Boston is an amazing city.

The impression I got from Michigan: it definitely had the "state school" feel. The campus was huge and sprawling and sort of reminded me of UCLA in that capacity despite having an atmosphere nothing like UCLA. I barely stayed there one day and it was during the summer so I can't really tell you what student life is like but just w/ regards to the campus as a whole, if you like open space and lots of voluminous activity it seems like where you'd want to go (vs. some place like Penn where everything is really packed together and there's a lot of really dense buzz).

Are you into business at all (I am in a business+engineering program)? Not because I'm trying to convert you but because I want to be helpful and I am admittedly clueless about criteria for engineering-focused schools :x

Well, not really a big surprise if you're still not past the 11th grade.

Man, I almost went to Rose Hulman, but the scholarship they offered was not even close to enough to make their immense tuition worth it. I've been screwing around for 5 years at this school and I still haven't spent as much as one year there would have cost us. Looked like a good school, though.

More extensive post when I'm not typing on my phone, but just wanted to say Liberius is full of crap. Schools like rit are Not like itt tech. You get a serious degree with a serious school that regularly puts people at high paying, well known jobs (apple, microsoft, google).

That being said, rit's engineering program is good, but probably not as good as since of the other school's you're talking about. Rit is the place to go for tech things. It had the first software engineering program in the country.

More extensive post when I'm not typing on my phone, but just wanted to say Liberius is full of crap. Schools like rit are Not like itt tech. You get a serious degree with a serious school that regularly puts people at high paying, well known jobs (apple, microsoft, google).

That being said, rit's engineering program is good, but probably not as good as since of the other school's you're talking about. Rit is the place to go for tech things. It had the first software engineering program in the country.

edit, would help if I read the whole thread through instead of jumping to the bottom.

Only thing I can suggest is aim for a university with a strong research base, working with people who are doing active research is always a good thing, it means they are passionate about their work and probably recognised in it.

Other than that, do think about stuff outside of study, you will be pushed hard at times doing work and will need places and people to chill out with, be it through sport, socializing or just plain ole getting pissed. Going to a place to just work 24/7 will slowly kill you.

You have no idea what you're talking about. RIT isn't a "tech school" like ITT Tech. By that logic, MIT is just a "tech school." RIT has some fantastic, if not well known engineering programs. All the typical ones like mechanical, electrical, computer, etc., and a few others like software engineering, which isn't too common, and microelectric engineering, which is the only undergraduate one in the US. RIT's biggest advantage over other schools is it's mandatory co-op program. Engineering graduates from RIT go into the field with an entire year of full time job experience. And doing a co-op for a good company is real work, not stereotypical intern stuff. When applying for an entry level position, it's a HUGE benefit to be able to say, "I've already done this kind of thing for a full year." It's one of the reasons why RIT is a top pick for companies like Microsoft, Intel, AMD, nVidia, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and a slew of others. And I'm not just reciding recruitment propaganda -- I have friends at several of those places, and the general consensus is that RIT candidates are chosen (at least for software positions) over students from MIT and Stanford on a regular basis.

That being said, I suppose it depends on what you want to do with your life. If you want to be an engineering working for some company, a school like RIT or Rose Hulman is very good. If you want to go into academia or research, a traditional school like MIT or CMU is a much better choice. But what ultimately matters most is what YOU put into the program. Schools aren't factories, you don't go in one side and come out the other. It's easy to get caught up in ratings and reputations, but you really need to take it upon yourself to be better than everyone else, no matter where you go. And I don't just mean grades. Having your own projects on the side is one of the best things to have on a resume. Whether it's undergraduate research or something you're doing in your basement doesn't really matter, although research programs tend to give you access to many resources (you can't really do nuclear engineering in your basement).

And like Pommy said, take other factors into account. Take money into account. You can get financial aid, sure, but be realistic. If it's going to put your whole family in your debt to send you to MIT or whatever, you might be better off at another school. If you're really passionate about what you do, it won't matter within a few years of graduation anyway.

That's something I forgot about: a good school co-op program would be nice. I've heard good things about those and have been heavily suggested to enter into a co-op program if at all possible. I fully intend to take advantage of a co-op while I'm in school if at all possible.

Money isn't really a limiting factor; if I find a school I like, I'm in a good position to either get the money to go there either through family, merit scholarships, or being willing to take a bit of debt when I get out of college. I won't be getting any government financial aid, unfortunately.

Thank you for the responses so far, especially Emon and Jon`C, and Pommy for saying what things to look for when touring a campus. I look forward to reading happydud's full response on college selection. And Kirby, I'll keep the cheap school -> expensive grad school in mind, but so far I don't really have any cheaper schools on my list. ****ing engineering.

Luckily the people that don't realise that are almost always the idiots that give up by the end of their first year.

I really can't stress how important it is. The nice thing about a good co-op program over, say, just going out and finding internships is that the school provides resources to find the co-ops. RIT has a career fair that brings in a ton of employers from all over the country. You walk around in a suit* with your resume and pitch yourself to people, some places have on campus interviews the next few days after the fair. There's a job listing website, an advisor to help you find stuff, etc etc. If you want a job in engineering, the quality of the co-op program should be a deciding factor for you.


* Most people wear suits and look really uncomfortable. I wear, at best, dress jeans and a nice button down. Generally, no one cares. At least at our career fair, almost every recruiter that shows up for an engineering position couldn't give two ****s how you dress. In fact, last time a bunch of my friends went in jeans and t-shirts, and one company actually started tracking them down because they heard that "all the software engineers were in jeans and t-shirts."

MIT's career fair is a thing of legends. My school has a decent IIP program, but... yeah, it's a Canadian university, so the pickings are pretty slim in CS.

Go to MIT. That is, if you can get it in the first place. Otherwise, settle for less (the other schools in your list).

Go to where the hottest engineering sluts are

I'm thinking you aren't overly familiar with engineering lectures.

****, I've been here forever.

zloc: is there anyone you can talk to in real life about this? You should try to track down some professionals in the fields you're considering and ask them about their education/career. That really helped me out.

Purdue's engineering program is amazing, and the West Lafayette campus is a blast to attend.

I'm still terrified of Rose Hullman. For one, you have to live in Terre Haute (meth labs everywhere) and two, the school has a high suicide rate. Graduates don't come out normal. lol

It goes with out saying that MIT would be awesome, but getting in is another story. I've heard it's pretty competitive.

I've talked with my dad, a chemical engineer at an oil refinery, quite a bit about the engineering field. His top recommendations have been RHIT, UofI, Rolla (where he went), and MIT if I'm willing to move across the country. Unfortunately, because the only local "big engineering attraction" is the refinery, I'm mostly surrounded by a bunch of chemical engineers, some mechanical engineers, and the occasional electrical engineer. I do need to talk to an EE at the refinery, as I'm sure they could help me with EE information, but EE, and EE/CS are very different. There are no computer engineers around here, and certainly no nuclear engineers to talk to.

Yecti, I'm fine with Terre Haute, it's an hour from home, so if I ever get caught up with meth heads (which I've known a few in my own town, anyway) I have a safe haven to run to.

And lastly, although I am concerned, I believe I have a good enough resume` to be admitted to MIT, through test scores and extra curricular competitions and teams I've been a part of (10th in the nation for JETS/TEAMS? Hell yeah)

I go to USF, which is really big on research, but I don't think it even has a nuclear engineering program. That's besides the point, check out the city wherever these colleges are located. You'll be there for at least four years, maybe longer, and you'll have to live with that atmosphere, traffic, opportunities, and expenses the whole time.

I dunno man it's pretty hit or miss because there are a lot of things that go into an admissions decision ... you could be 100% qualified and deserving to get in and not get in. The smartest thing to do is to hedge your bets and find at least 2-3 other schools you really like and apply there as well. Hope for the best and expect the worst.

This was funny:

http://wondermark.com/634/

My advice: Go big (top 10-20) or go home (state).

I turned down Carnegie Mellon for CS/Business (ranked highly in both) for Boston U (not so highly-ranked) because 1) people at CMU seemed miserable, 2) tuition, 3) the city of Pittsburgh. I did not enjoy BU from a social perspective the way I thought I would versus a "nerd school," tuition was still extremely high at BU but without the networking benefits/high-ranking aura, and Boston activities were limited for those under 21.

If you subscribe to the school of thought that "you are the average of the 5 people with whom you spend the most time," then the company of motivated, competitive peers will elevate you to study and perform.

Consider that many of the students at mid-tier universities only went there because they could not gain acceptance to their top-tier, top choice "reach" schools. At BU, this colored the outlook of many students and the mentality was transfer out after freshman year or whine for four years and settle into a job waiting tables/teaching English as a foreign language/something else that does not require a $40k/year four-year degree. This is a gross generalization, to be sure, but my general "summary" perception.

Career opportunities at the highly-ranked school grossly outnumber and outperform those at lower-ranked schools. Hence, you can hear about Princeton grads making respectable six-digit incomes post-graduation (or better, going public with a startup run during college and cashing out with several million at graduation). When beginning my job search, I was disappointed to find that many Boston-area firms explicitly reserved headcount for alumni of select universities. These are the "old boys clubs" where alumni recruit alumni (which I can understand from a risk management perspective when dealing with a high volume of applicants, but which definitely rubs me the wrong way as an "outsider").

In sum, I think I would have experienced similar academic quality and career opportunities at a state school (Penn State, in my case) as compared to my time at BU, a mid-tier school. If I could do it again, I would have applied to MIT and if I didn't get in, I would have accepted CMU. Hence, the advice I would give to myself circa five-six years ago when considering colleges is: go big (top 10-20) or go home (state), so I give this advice to you.

MIT, U of I, and U of M are all great choices. Good luck on your search.

I agree, but it also doesn't have to get in your way. You are yourself an example of this. You went to a mid-tear school and you work for Microsoft.

If you can get into a top-tier school and you know that you can afford it (whether that's from your parents paying, getting an awesome financial aid package, or being willing to bury yourself in loans), then I'd say definitely go for it, although I don't really recommend the last option.

When I was in your shoes, I wanted somewhere that I could get a good education, somewhere that was cheap, and somewhere that wasn't too terribly far away. My parents (well mostly my dad) really wanted me to go to a cheap state school because they saw $40k+ a year at a private school and were not happy. After doing a lot of research into financial aid and such at the private school I really wanted to go to (Vanderbilt University), I was able to convince my parents that it wasn't going to cost them an arm and a leg for me to go there.

I'm glad I did too. It was nice and challenging, a huge difference from high school (I went to a piss easy, crappy public school in a little redneck town). I had 4 incredibly awesome years there, and it helped me get a really good job straight out of college thanks to alumni connections (my boss went to the same school). I don't think I would've been all that happy at your average state school. A place like Michigan is an exception, they're a great state school. Most of the state schools down here in the southeast are crap.

I remember when you were that annoying 11 year old! Congrats man!