Part of the reason JO and JA never took off is because LA was and remains anti-modding.

Also because the JK engine is just plain better from a modding perspective.

Sith engine is better for modding than Q3?

Yup, tha'ts what I was talking about!

And I always preferred in-game engine cinematics to pre-rendered FMVs (whether with live actors or far-better CGI). The disconnect always bothered me.

I don't think that's true. The multiplayer portion was moddable because all the logic was in a separate DLL. The singleplayer portion was compiled into the engine EXE, and Raven couldn't release it without releasing the Q3 source code as well as a bunch of proprietary code of their own.

I suppose LEC could have told them to prohibit modding for SP and that's the manner they chose to implement it, but I seriously doubt it. I think it more likely that Raven didn't bother to make their game correctly.

From some perspectives. JK is a more data driven, and the event based scripting is wonderful (even if COG is poorly designed). In Q3 the "scripting" is just an update hook that is called each frame and every script has to manage its own state. It's incredibly primitive and unintuitive.

Since this thread inspired me to play JA, I'll post this question here:

stop saying grid

I did

On grids: http://www.oldmanmurray.com/news/230.html

Yeah, that's the auto-aim thingy.

HOW TO TURN IT OFF CAN'T FIND OPTION

I don't have it installed right now so I can't look. :/

Did you try just turning off the crosshairs (in Options menu)? Or turn off Identify Target?

JO i liked, the saber combat wasnt great but the story line was ok. Kissing Jan was effing retarded though

JA's story was a bit more lame, but the fighting and saber fights were awesome.

I recently installed KotoR2 to drown out horrible reality.
The feeling of that game, the advancement of the characters, atmosphere etc, was great, but god they fecked up the end of the game by leaving gaps and not finishing it.

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}

It's called "Dynamic Crosshair" and it's in the menu options somewhere. Look harder.

This is how I spent hours on Jedi Outcast.

(in console)

bind i npc spawn reborn
bind o npc spawn jedi
bind p npc spawn reborn2
bind l npc spawn jedi2
npc spawn rebel

I always spawn one rebel NPC on my adventures. As a companion.

Yeah, once I found out, I would spawn epic battles on Bespin too.

Sounds like what I did with Source, and even HL1 back in the day.

I killed her in JK. And felt good about it.

Dark side stuff is never canon

You must be thinking of Jedi Outcast, which did have that option in the menus. I've looked every menu (Jedi Academy's Steam version) and it just isn't there.

The Ladder 2.

I never found that map again. It wasn't that 'pit' map, it was a custom map set in a bespin arena. It had awesome music.

Saber combat in JA is pretty awesome. I dislike the map challenges though, they just throw dark jedi at you around every corner. Oh and the voice acting is SO BADDDDDDDD

I don't think Desann was lame. He was merely a poor shallow copy of Darth Vader in need of more development. The Imperial Officer you fight, Galak Fyarr, could have used some character improvement. Since he begun a new army in the spirit of General Mohc's Dark Trooper, the story writers could have at least made the connection more obvious, rather than making a vague reference that could only be understood by Dark Forces Fans (i.e. "Black Armor? Not again!"). Fyarr's character is also much shallower than Desann's, and not particularly bright ( i.e. My parody of Fyarr's dialogue with Katarn: "Did you know that we are overrunning the Temple?" "Yes, Jan told me" "Impossible! She's in the Detention center being tortured to death!" "I released her." "Damn you Katarn!" "Oh, and I just destroyed the power generator while you were deep into your monologue." "ARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!")
I rather liked the demo level myself, and some of the features within the demo. I would preferred elements from Return to Castle Wolfenstein too (stealth, beautiful level design, similar enemies).
From what I'm gathering from the latest posts, people here prefer the old Jedi Knight engine over JO's Q3 engine. Does that mean Massassi Temple would be in favor of a Sith Engine remake of JO? (Probably with heavy modifications into the AI, engine, and gameplay?)

The closet thing to a JK remake is Zell's levels. Unfortunately neither JO or JA SP allow code modifications. You can't change the AI or any significant behavior of any items in the game, making it pretty much JO in a new setting.

I don't want to sound like an ass, but I honestly thought JO's SP campaign was riddled with bad, questionable level design.

Edit: i can reed gud

BOTTOMLESS PIT OF CRATES

To be perfectly honest, I don't think I've played it since it was released. I just remember not disliking it. JA I've never finished. Got to some level on Tatooine with giant worms or something.

Walk without rhythm, and it won't attract the worm.

Toss a thumper out on one side of the level, and you can run around the other with impunity.

Actually, that level probably is a dune reference. You can use thermals to send the worm-thing off attacking something else while you make a run for it.

You Jedi warriors get distracted too easily, but that’s okay.

You don’t sound like an ass, ECHOMAN. I agree with you. The level design of JO could have been more inspired. (I demand DEUS EX or JEDI KNIGHT quality!)

On another note: I am excited that there are DUNE FANS amongst you!

I am sure that the desert planet where the hypersensitive sandworms are might have been referenced in the Star Wars encyclopedias, but I’m not sure. It’s not Tantooine, certainly: the planet is much too dangerous and in some ways more frenetically dangerous than Arrakis (though I could be wrong, since I’m hoping that Fremen-like Tusken Raiders manage to live there and are able to ride the small worms). Curiously enough, when I was creating my own imaginary sequel to Dark Forces II in my child years, I conceived of a desert level against giant worms too. My childhood inspirations were stolen by Raven, those scavengers!

It would be really cool to do Dune inspired levels for JK, or create a mod for JK based off of David Lynch’s film of Dune (for its dark and stylistic atmosphere).

I hope you mean by JK remake Emon is an attempt to remake parts of Jedi Outcast as a mod for the original Jedi Knight, though you probably did. I’ve tried finding Zell’s levels on Massassi, but they aren’t there. Maybe you can leave a link here, that way I can study the levels myself.

I know it sounds backward to do a Jedi Outcast-based Jedi Knight mod, but many people here seem to prefer the classic Jedi Knight/Mysteries of the Sith over the Quake III powered Jedi Outcast (except for the combat). A Sith Engine based Jedi Outcast remake would make an interesting challenge.

The level design in JO was abysmal, mostly because it was completely nonsensical. The Doomgiver comm array? There was no way any person other than a Jedi or a guy on a hover scooter could use it. It was so convoluted. I mean, yeah, it's a game, but it's also a somewhat realistic game. I expect things to act in a way that makes sense. There was other rubbish too, like enemies in impossible to get to places. JK had none of that. There was almost always a sensible layout to the levels and a way for people to move about.

I thought you meant a JK to JO mod, in which case Zell's levels aren't published but on the Showcase forum.

I don't think it would be wise to port JO to JK. JK can't offer the visual splendor or enhanced saber combat that JO has. Not to mention that no one would play it.