Let me reiterate my point again:

Tasers are not considered deadly force. Tasers SHOULD be considered deadly force, because a taser is a lethal weapon. Their use isn't considered deadly force because:

1.) Taser International markets them heavily to police forces as a non-lethal crime deterrent. Actual marketing documents describe it as a "less-than-lethal weapon," but this is included in the fine print for legal reasons.

2.) Police officers, as individuals, are not adequately trained in the use of tasers and are not adequately informed about the potential lethality of their misuse. Instead, police officers are given a very convincing demonstration that a taser won't kill them (i.e. a young man in excellent health) under controlled situations and when fired by a Taser International sales rep.

3.) It's like how Republicans don't believe in global warming. Or that episode of Star Trek The Next Generation where they discover that warp drive is damaging subspace. Tasers make a police officer's job easier and safer so they don't believe that tasers are dangerous and they don't want to hear talk about it.

This case is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. A cop reached for a taser and fired without even thinking about what he was doing. He pulled a gun by mistake, but the taser could have killed the guy too. Do you think Johannes Mehserle would have made this mistake if he knew? Would you, JLee?

I am certified to use a Taser and have also been hit with one. No Taser sales rep was involved - I was tased in a police station by a fellow officer. Not all police officers are young men in excellent health, and I have yet to see a case of one dying after being hit with a Taser.


Or like you, having no training, no experience, and no knowledge of what you're talking about, thinking you can put words in my mouth and tell me what I believe?

Would you rather get sprayed? I wouldn't...and you can also fight through OC if you're determined enough. Rarely can you fight through a Taser.


I would say that is a training issue, not a Taser issue. Just like anything else - when used properly, it is a very good tool.

I realize that nothing I say will change your mind, especially given what you spouted off above. Have you been hit with a Taser? Do you have training in the use of a Taser, as well as appropriate use of force training to determine when deploying one would be appropriate and justified? Do you have any information other than internet 'omg tasers are evil' stuff? Unless you have any first-hand experience (which I highly doubt), you know less than I do.

However, you're confident to tell me how I was trained, even telling me I am inadequately trained, and you tell me that I don't know what the dangers are. You say that I don't want to hear about the dangers of a Taser, but you don't want to listen to why we have them. My current department doesn't have Tasers - and after getting in a fight with a 6'4" rugby player that took three officers and five non-LEO people in the area to subdue, I wish we had them. That's not your concern, is it? JLee happens to run into that guy alone and gets pounded? Pfft, he's a cop, who cares, right? Certainly not you, until I potentially have to shoot the guy because he's killing me and I have no other choice. Then it's "omg why did you shoot an unarmed man???" Is that about right? See, I can put words in your mouth, too.

Are some people using them improperly? Absolutely. Does that mean it's the fault of the device? Well - is it your car's fault when you drink and drive?

Think about it.

That article doesn't say what you think it says.

This may be a good read for some of you who think Tasers should essentially replace firearms-

http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Weapons/Articles/2007/06/Never-Bring-a-TASER-to-a-Gunfight.aspx

I think smart people should replace dumb people.

This is a good plan.

God, you're a whiny little *****. You don't even understand what I'm posting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser_safety_issues#Deaths_and_injuries_related_to_Taser_use

Here is a Wikipedia link that JLee won't read, because it was posted by an anarchist and a cop-hater. The same page also discusses the safety issues and the potential for misuse and a number of very high-profile cases involving the RCMP.

http://www.amnesty.ca/themes/tasers_backgrounder.php
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/report/tasers-potentially-lethal-and-easy-abuse-20081216

Here are some more links that JLee won't read, because Amnesty International is a well-known anarchist organization that conducts research into how to kill police officers.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/11/14/bc-taservideo.html

Here's a link to the CBC, which stands for the Cop-killing Brute Coalition, so JLee won't read it. If he did read it, though, he'd see some RCMP officers getting caught on video tasing a Polish tourist to death and then lying about it.

http://www.taser.com/legal/Pages/Default.aspx

Here is a link to the Taser International legal page, which JLee won't read because I've beaten this joke into the ground. It's the only page where they describe the potential risks of using tasers, including the invention of a medical condition they call 'excited delirium,' which they say may impair breathing or cardiovascular function.

But, oh ****, I wasn't trained on how to point a piece of black plastic at a dude and press a button so I don't have a ****ing clue what I'm talking about! I only understand how electricity works and its effect on the human body, but I've never been a part of a staged demonstration under controlled conditions. Sorry folks, disregard my post. I must defer to JLee's superior point-and-click understanding of the world.

I think you're an annoying **** who came in this thread with no intentions other than to look for an argument and cause trouble, and probably hope that you'd give yourself an opportunity to demean and make other people look stupid. Your first response is evidence of this.

We get it. There have been freak incidents where a taser has somehow killed somebody and we should pound into the brains of all our police officers that they are deadly weapons and should only be used when killing a suspect is warranted. Never mind all the situations where they've worked exactly as designed and kept officers from getting hurt while not harming the suspect who could have possibly been shot otherwise. Maybe if people like Oscar Grant weren't COMPLETE LOW LIFE PUNKS they wouldn't have tasers or guns pointed at them to begin with.

Er, I think that's what Jon's getting at...

The CBC, by filing Access to Information Act requests (the RCMP refused to give statistics without a legal mandate,) determined that 1/3rd of people tased by the RCMP require medical treatment due to taser-related injuries.

Edit: It's also worth mentioning that coroners who report a death by taser are usually sued by Taser International, which makes the number of actual deaths due to tasers impossible to determine. Coroners now report taser deaths as 'excited delirium' if they're being asinine, or more often 'unknown cardiovascular impairment.' Usually we only hear about it when there are a large number of witnesses, or when a cop commits suicide over the accident.

If anyone actually wants my opinion on something, feel free to PM me.

Joncy, go have fun in your little world. Maybe someday you will grow up and realize that not all police officers are evil.

Yes, because all police officers are also tasers.

The problem is never when the cops taser someone who is trying to hurt them or someone else. It's when the cops think they can taser anyone because they believe tasers are safe.

How do you properly use a taster, anyway? You shoot them and they either die or not.

Tasers are only reliably non-lethal when targets are hit in places in which a regular firearm would also be non-lethal (i.e. the extremities, in particular while avoiding the center of mass, chest, shoulders, back and neck). This is stated on Taser International's legal page.

Edit: IIRC there was a cop who successfully sued Taser International because he was hit in the back during a demo and his spine fractured. It's not just about heart attacks.

To be fair, that IS down from 100% who are shot with guns.

Still, I fully believe tasers should be banned. Just because they're less lethal than beating someone with a big stick doesn't mean they're appropriate. Police prove every day that they can't handle them properly (tasing kids and old people for example) so they should be taken away. Just like people have their license taken away when they drive drunk, to re-use an example.

Except it's not their fault. They are told that tasers won't kill, so they're used under that assumption. There are situations where a taser is perfectly appropriate.

Dude are you even reading his posts? He's not saying this at all... he's point out that it's NOT their fault.

I'M A COP AND THINK ALL COPS ARE GREAT

It is appropriate to tase Squirrel King.

Incidentally, JLee; if you want someone who thinks all police are evil, you don't joncy, you want freelancer.

No, you're right. (damn that's actually an odd sentence when you think about it) It's not completely their fault. However, the fact remains that these weapons are being handled inappropriately and improperly and the public is paying the price for it. If police cannot be trusted to use them correctly (regardless of who's doing the instructing), they should not be allowed to use them.

However, a better solution may be to make Taser International pay the medical bills for anyone injured by their product. I bet that would tone down their claims of complete safety while forcing them to find a way to actually make them safer.

Ha! You'll have a better chance of getting Jon`C to sing Sean Hannity's praises than getting a judge to make TI own up.

They don't have to own up to anything. If a judge tells them that's how it is, that's how it is.