I'm in one of those moods where i dont understand the way the universe works and it makes me angry.

Whilst having a ciggie and tea, I started thinking about atoms and electrons and photons.
The main thing pissing me off right now are the 4 fundamental forces.

I just about got my head around weak and strong nuclear forces, even though most of the theory on this by leading scientists seem to be guess work even when they back it up with equations (math is very fluid, i believe u can make any old bollocks up and prove it with complex non standard math)

Gravity is pissing me off though.
Lets keep it simple for now.
So gravity influences mass right?
Light "has no mass"
Why is light affected by gravity*?

So perhaps we all jump in here and say "even massless particles can be affected by gravity"

That's just a cop out to me. And then theres the particle/wave duality, or energy=mass.

Just like when a high energy gamma rays create an e+ and e-, mass and energy are interchangeable, then why not assume that EVERYTHING has mass, but photons just have so little we havent detected it.

* OR are photons only affected by the twisting and compression of space time created by gravity, rather than "gravitons" themselves


DISCUSS

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}

I'm pissing in the wind here but it's worth noting that while photons have no mass, they do have momentum. I want to suggest that has something to do with it but I dunno.

The obvious question here (at least to myself who has very little knowledge of science) is: do photons have zero mass or is it just "near zero" mass... if the latter i think it answers your question.

edit: To turn it on its head, shouldn't you be able to work out how much mass a photon has by looking at how much it is affected by gravity?

Ni has it. Photons must have some non-zero mass.

Or, it's possible that all the fundamental forces are the same force acting in different ways, and that's why gravity affects light.

I AM WRONG

see, i like this. They've already suggested that electromagnetism and weak nuclear force are the same force above 8GeV or something

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}

Edit: SORRY I THOUGHT THIS WAS A SERIOUS THREAD but it looks like everyone else is just goofing off. I suppose "photons must have mass" should have clued me in.

In light of this,

lol photons aren't affected by mass unless we're talking about ur mom; she's so heavy she even attracts photons

Momentum is mass*velocity. There is no force involved in an unchanging momentum. If momentum is changing thats a different story. (F=d/dt(mv)) But I really don't think it's that simple in this context.

Hasn't it already been established that classical mechanics can be just about thrown out the window when studying particle behavior anyway?

Sorry, the last time I took physics was 5 years ago. I will just stay quiet and read the thread then and not confuse anyone else

I was just going to write this and leave it at that.

Can't feel acceleration? What about those guys that slowed light down to where they could see it travelling through a medium?

I don't know enough about physics to really comment.... sadly. Someday that may change.

I still don't understand how radio waves can travel through space, if space is a (near) vacuum.

I should really get back to school.

but that statement explains nothing. You have to show it in most basic terms, ie, what it all looks like in 3d, would be a good place to start.

Kyles post showed only an example of HOW things work.
We want the WHY.
Curved spacetime? curved by what? the example of the star, or is ALL space time curved, and as soon as it isnt, photons no longer travel in a straight line?

See. The way standard physics is explained doesnt work for everyone.
We all think differently. This is not a subtle way of saying "some of us are thick"
Mozart was just as much a genius as Einstein, but saw the world through music rather than math. etc etc

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}

Spacetime is curved by gravity, right?

Any mass is gonna make things all bendy. It's just noticeable when it's star-sized and above.

Edit: again, never mind. RADIO WAVES TRAVEL BY MAGIC AND FAIRY DUST

No kyle radio waves are sound waves remember

...are you claiming that they're not?

Also F=mv

Yeah see this doesn't make any sense Emon you are making some bogus claims that cannot be backed up by "science" and now you are back peddling -_o

Haha I knew they weren't the same, but didn't realize they weren't really related at all. Anyway, thanks for :eng101:ing me

It's a reference to that one guy that thought radio waves were the same as sound waves.

Spacetime curvature is a tensor field. You need 6* dimensions of data to show what it "looks" like.

(* Maybe more, I'm not an astrophysicist.)

Gravity was invented by the Dutch.

Otherwise known as "Martyn would make a total hash of explaining it beacuse he only knows what he was taught at A-Level and from reading Hawkins' books"

Not that your explanation would matter. I think kyle90 has the right idea here.

lol all physics is wrong because its based on calculus but spacetime is probably quantized so you cant differentiate over it!!

B-but.. my smooth functions!

:effort:

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/resources/basics/wonderquest/photonmass.htm

:{

USA today? ****ing serious?