Was that supposed to be a good comeback?


Based on your responses: Your still a ****ing idiot.

I can't decide which part of your rationale is more offensive to me; the idea that equal opportunity education can ever offer anything of value, or that your idea of success is tied to income and your idea of improvement is subjecting oneself to whatever it is that schools and banks say they do.

Then how would you define being financially successful? How many troll posts you make in a day say?

How is equal oppurtunity education NOT valuable? The vast majority of kids who don't want to be there, simply won't. They'll wash out, or run out of financial aid/parents money. If equal opportunity education never existed many prominant figures would have never had a chance (ex. George Washington Carver, Steven Jobs, Ralph Lauren, Chris Gardner etc etc).

I find your points far FAR more offensive than what I have stated. On top of just being an elitist ****, you carry quite a facist attitude. As we've seen in history countless times, that has never worked and never will.

A fascist attitude. Now there's a laugh and a half.

I understand that value increases with scarcity. 28% of Americans have college degrees today. Compare that with the 25% who had high school diplomas in 1940. They are equivalent in value.

Sure, go attend college. Just don't whine that it was a waste of time. And that's thanks to the their lack of exclusivity. We have an entire generation growing up now who has wide access to better educational resources than can be had in any university and from an earlier age, and my guess is that these institutions will be increasingly seen as inferior and outdated, not to mention egregiously and insultingly expensive.

Like what? Wikipedia? The internet? MIT Open Courseware? For almost all people, those are not suitable replacements for higher education. If for no other reason than self-study is really hard to complete to a similar level as formal education, even for people who are motivated to do so.

Edit: Not to mention the fact that self study doesn't give you the benefit of review and criticism by peers and professors. Not to mention access to incredibly expensive physical resources. Good luck becoming an aerospace engineer in your basement.

Pfft, clearly everyone is capable of being Will Hunting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Social_Darwinism




Your beef is with corporations then not colleges. Equal education is not the problem, rather corporations setting higher educational standards from their workforce. The answer is not for colleges to start declining kids because they don't have 4.0 gpa's, the answer is for companies to start broadening their workforce spectrum without watering it down to menial labor so that more forms of higher education will still be valuable when applied to the working world.

Pretty sure Jon's experienced some of that with companies. No matter how qualified you may be, most companies (or at least recruiters) will laugh at you without a college degree.

Depending on your field, you can be self educated and highly successful. But many times it's much easier, and sometimes necessary (even if artificially) to attend a university. Science and engineering are brutal in this respect.

And maybe I'm spoiled by a good school, but I've met very few people that were in school because "**** it" or "I dunno."

Following your intrinsic passion is a hell of a lot easier than dealing with whatever arbitrary subject your school decides you should learn. That is probably their worst folly: they actually believe that a so-called "well-rounded" curriculum makes a "better" person out of you. We spend the first 18 years of our lives having every last capability to do anything for intrinsic reasons beat out of us, so it's no wonder that this silly attitude persists.

Why anyone would model their self-learning after a school is beyond me, anyway.

It's easier than ever now to share your work with other like-minded people and get feedback. It's faster, easier, and numerically far superior to do these things online in the right places, and I consistently find people far more intelligent or on par with the best professors I've had.

You think that's my answer? That's so ****ing insulting. That is clearly an example of a college being selective against the wrong traits.

Get off your high horse bud.

Your being rather vague as to what should be the filtering process proposed in your fantasy land, or rather, what deems an individual worthy of college education or not.

For many people, it does. You'd be surprised at how many people get to college and have a complete lack of education in ancillary sciences or liberal arts. Good schools minimize the amount of garbage you need to take, and allow you to tailor it to your specific major (e.g. psychology classes are applicable to artificial intelligence).


Maybe, for some cases. Others, not so much. Working with a team of engineering students on say, a robot, is going to teach you so much more at a university than building one in your basement and showing your design to people over the internet.

Aaaaaaaand scene.

Tell me about it. Probably the smarter financial thing for me to do would have been to stay in the Army for another year or so. But it feels like I just got back from Iraq (13 months ago) and if I had delayed my retirement you guys would have seen another farewell thread from me as I would be leaving to go back again in less than a month. I was seriously sick of that and other job related stress.

It's also unfortunately true that the jobs I'm highly qualified for and that pay well entail the stress I don't want to deal with right now. I will take a year or two of low stress, low pay jobs to pay somethings off and save some money. At that point my little boy relatively new dog will be at a calmer age that I should be able to actually concentrate on being a fulltime student. I'm a little torn because I could use some of my GI Bill money to get some technical training that I could use to earn a decent wage much sooner but I really want to use it all for traditional college. We'll see what my decision on that is in the next year or so.

I took the morning off from work to accomplish somethings. Got my new retiree military ID card, switched my health insurance over (pretty decent, less than $500 per year for the three of us), and got the ball rolling on my VA disability claim (way behind the power curve on that one). It all went remarkably smooth.



I don't believe right is the proper word. On what grounds would you argue that everyone has a right to a higher education? And who, as it would follow, would have the obligation to provide it?



We're actually beyond the proposal stage on that one.

No, the elderly are allowed to perform assisted suicide. It's not the same as euthanasia.

I'm just saying its moved beyond the proposal point, not that we actually have it yet.

Obamacare will kill the elderly, barbecue kittens and put all of America's beloved blonde 7 year old beauty queens in hidden mormon rape-basements.

Mormon rape-basements? I think not, Obamacare was not bipartisan.

Yes, he must go to DeVry or ITTech! Or major in Women Studies or Art History of Canada!

Come now, I was under the impression that Wookie is a full grown adult, and not some fresh-out-of-highschool fish who blows his parent's trust fund on classes that do not contain a single math equation. Higher education is riddled with crap, but it doesn't mean one can't take an intelligent and focused approach in finding means to better oneself in the system. It is possible to make the best of higher education facilities and opportunities without subjugating oneself to insane costs and useless programs (maybe Wookie can some benefits!). Racking up $200,000 in debt because you wanted to study photography is obviously considered doing things horribly, horribly wrong.

I just got a job as a video editor which I enjoy. Hopefully I'll take an internship at Pixar or Sony in the next year or so. Not trying to be a douche, but I have the problem of having too much work to choose from... decisions, decisions.

Going back to the OP, Wookie has quit a job that he didn't enjoy, has secured sufficient income to not just pay his way, but also put some away for the future. He has a job that he appears to enjoy. He has a reasonable(*) plan for his future.

In what way is this considered a failure?


(*) Okay, that sounds really patronising now I read it back. I don't mean "reasonable" as in mediocre, I meant it more as in it's a sensible, achievable goal that is going to be a benefit to him. I think there's probably a better word than "reasonable" that isn't loaded with negative connotations but I just can't think of it at the moment.

Probably a bad example because photo majors can and do get jobs, even if it's difficult or slow to start. Philosophy major would be a better example

Also you'd have to **** up your finances pretty good to owe $200,000, but I see your point.

Yeah. It would have to be an extreme case.

When I wrote that, I was thinking about this article I remembered reading 2 months ago.

Wookiee posts a thread that is not an attempt to start a flame war.
It devolves into one anyway.

Uh-huh! Further proof that wookie is a computer entity build by Jon'C to provoke WWIII!!!

Whatever helps you sleep at night, Freelancer.

^^ heh, only sheeple college types sleep at night. Freelancer doesn't conform to that bull****

Actually, I'm one of the only people I know who seems to be able to sleep soundly and consistently every night. I wonder why that is.



Also, this. Wookiee is more of a man than some e-peen-craving guy who takes a job he hates because he lets the concept of social class pull him around by the nose ring.

Likely because you're one of the only ones deluded enough to genuinely believe that they view the world objectively.

:saddowns:

I'm not really saying this is the way things are, period. Of course I'm speaking from my point of view. It's the way I would prefer to run things. I'm not saying there's only one way.

As I recall, no, you're joining n the military because you live in a miserable craphole with nothing to do but post on the internet and drink, few friends, and you're basically surrounded by people you hate.

Menial jobs are not the issue.


On the education front, I like to assume that at least 75% of my high school's staff were not there because they chose to teach a bunch of ******* kids until they became stroke victims...and yes, that actually happened to one of them...

I do this to remind myself that most people probably don't end up in with the stellar career their 70+ year old HS guidance counselor (Which again is a career unlikely to have been anyone's ambition) told them they were going to get.

My point is that happy/content people are not necessarily what would be called successful and successful people aren't successful just because they went to college.

That's fair.

And I certainly agree with you in spirit, but you come off as some sort of militant anti-education wacko. I think it makes it hard for some people to take you seriously. I have a feeling it is your Mormon background. Disgruntled Mormons tend to be some of the most passionate people I've met, but we are often hard on the ears.


editActually, speaking of Mormons, which is speaking of homeschool, you may find George Wythe University interesting. A relative of mine got their M.A. in education and now homeschools her children. They seem remarkably well adjusted, though they have a pretty strong social network and I think both of them play on public school sports teams. But still, interesting ideas they have at that school, I think.

You give me slightly too much credit. I have two house, each with a mortgage. One is rented out. That rental income, my wife's job (9 months a year, teaches ESL kids), my retirement check, and this new job put me at around break even each month. Something happens with the rental, issue. Wife out for summer, issue. Once I get the second job, then I will feel more secure. My Army paycheck, on the other hand, was more than adequate to cover all bills by itself. But, yeah, I hadn't enjoyed it for a long time so once I could retire I pulled the trigger. I was able to pay off a great amount of debt prior to that.

I plan to sell my current residence in the next year or so and move into my other bigger, nicer, cheaper house in Tennessee. I should be debt free minus the house at that time and my retirement check should be adequate income plus the money I will get paid to go to college fulltime. I had really wanted to go to the school here, very nice campus and very close. I may still try if I'm comfortable with my financial situation.

Oh, and Jon`C always likes to refer to me as a failure and I know others agree that my choices in life constitute failure.

Well, yes, but I'm in that situation because I got tired of menial jobs and moved back in with my parents.

I was fired from my job of 3 years for an unknown reason. I didn't have the required attendance points to justify this move on their part. I suspect that it had something to do w/ a child pornography cover-up that I reported to my manager's superior (it turns out that they were good friends). Kentucky isn't a "right-to-work" state so an employer can fire you at any time except when there's legal issues (e.g: discrimination) & there isn't anything that you can do about it (3 different lawyers told me that I had no case). I was able to obtain unemployment despite my employer fighting me every step of the way (they ended up looking like idiots in the end because to their surprise I came at them prepared like a lawyer). Unfortunately I was forced to cash out my 401k so that my wife & I could "survive" in the meantime. This ordeal left a nasty taste in my mouth & I vowed to open my own business where concepts like "equality" & "fairness" would run rampant. I stayed on unemployment for 6 months while doing research & planning. I recently took a job as a manager in the same field as the business that I want to open & have already received one of the necessary certifications from my city. My plan is to learn as much in this position as I can while working on my business plan & eventually starting my own business. I already have a few potential investors & things are really starting to look good for the first time in my life. My wife & I will co-own & co-manage this business ourselves & we're having a ton of fun (w/ the occasional stress) trying to get it off the ground. We also have a baby on the way (our first) that we're both really excited about & our employer is renting us a beautiful home for $200 less than normal because of our position (& because it's only 2 blocks from work & we're on-call).