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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Hey car people..
Hey car people..
2011-01-05, 6:32 AM #1
Check this beast out. The engineering and money that went into this project is just awesome. I mean look at the lower half of the block, it is one giant main bearing, and on top of that no head gasket. On the dyno you can see that between 5000-7000 RPM it makes 1000hp, out of a high revving, turbo charged 4 cylinder.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1575817
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2011-01-05, 7:03 AM #2
jeeezus.
woot!
2011-01-05, 7:12 AM #3
I missed this before but a few comments down: The custom Ti billet connecting rods = $3250 each, custom Ti billet crank, $31,000.
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2011-01-05, 7:14 AM #4
I'm not a car person so most of that is lost on me.

But I would be curious how much a complete Titanium engine block would cost. Sorta seems like a shame using Aluminum with almost everything else being Titanium. :)
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2011-01-05, 7:22 AM #5
Aluminum is lighter and weight is a big factor
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2011-01-05, 7:44 AM #6
Thats insane. Shame though.. all that work and I bet he still has a coffee can on the back end.
2011-01-05, 7:47 AM #7
Originally posted by x25064:
Thats insane. Shame though.. all that work and I bet he still has a coffee can on the back end.


it's probably a 4" straight pipe.
woot!
2011-01-05, 8:05 AM #8
I'd hope so.

Here's something else I found while reading down the comments on that forum:

2011-01-05, 10:26 AM #9
Originally posted by x25064:
Thats insane. Shame though.. all that work and I bet he still has a coffee can on the back end.


Well most drag FWD cars the exhaust shoots right out of the front bumper or fender. You can actually see the downpipe and exhaust(which is at least 4") coming down in front of the LF tire in the last picture on that first post.
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2011-01-05, 11:45 AM #10
Goddamn, for the money he spent he should have bought a Hyabusa and a turborpop.
2011-01-05, 12:01 PM #11
At least it's done right. I've seen big numbers like that with smaller budgets, the engine usually dies before long. This guy looks like he replaced everything with quality parts from solid materials. I'm sure if you're a sponsored racer, then money isn't really an issue.
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2011-01-05, 6:24 PM #12
car people? Where?! (Do they have wheels instead of legs?)

(also, I'm a member of those forums. :D)
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Lassev: I guess there was something captivating in savagery, because I liked it.
2011-01-05, 8:22 PM #13
i do get a nice squirm in my trousers when i look at stuff like this
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if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
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else{
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2011-01-05, 11:04 PM #14
Saw this a week or so ago. Insane what these guys did. I especially like the titanium impeller for the turbo.

Originally posted by zanardi:
Aluminum is lighter and weight is a big factor


I'm sure the reasoning was either a problem of actually getting a chunk of titanium that big, or the cost in doing so. Aluminum is a bit lighter than titanium, but since titanium is quite a bit stronger I wonder if they could've forgone the iron sleeves and gotten pretty close to the same weight? At least then the metals would all expand/contract at the same rate, but I don't know how the block would stand up to the abuse. I've never heard of anybody making a titanium block though, and that's probably too big of an expense for them to try for an experiment.
Little angel go away
Come again some other day
Devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say
2011-01-06, 12:45 AM #15
Originally posted by Crimson:
Saw this a week or so ago. Insane what these guys did. I especially like the titanium impeller for the turbo.



I'm sure the reasoning was either a problem of actually getting a chunk of titanium that big, or the cost in doing so. Aluminum is a bit lighter than titanium, but since titanium is quite a bit stronger I wonder if they could've forgone the iron sleeves and gotten pretty close to the same weight? At least then the metals would all expand/contract at the same rate, but I don't know how the block would stand up to the abuse. I've never heard of anybody making a titanium block though, and that's probably too big of an expense for them to try for an experiment.


IIRC titanium is 40% heavier than aluminum -- I highly doubt four iron sleeves would come close to making up the difference in weight.
woot!
2011-01-06, 6:22 PM #16
Originally posted by Crimson:
I'm sure the reasoning was either a problem of actually getting a chunk of titanium that big, or the cost in doing so. Aluminum is a bit lighter than titanium, but since titanium is quite a bit stronger I wonder if they could've forgone the iron sleeves and gotten pretty close to the same weight? At least then the metals would all expand/contract at the same rate, but I don't know how the block would stand up to the abuse. I've never heard of anybody making a titanium block though, and that's probably too big of an expense for them to try for an experiment.


Not even considering how ridiculously expensive it would be, titanium's characteristics aren't suited for engine blocks, since as zanardi said, weight is the biggest factor. Even Ferraris have aluminum engine blocks. That said, there are materials with similar strength characteristics to aluminum that are actually lighter. BMW straight-6 engine blocks are made out of magnesium alloy, for example.
2011-01-07, 2:11 AM #17
Why not do this on a cylinder layout that makes sense? An inline six would have produced more horsepower, been more stable, and actually would have probably weighed less at the same displacement. Even if it hadn't weighed less it would have still had a much greater power to weight ratio.
2011-01-07, 5:28 AM #18
Originally posted by Rob:
Why not do this on a cylinder layout that makes sense? An inline six would have produced more horsepower, been more stable, and actually would have probably weighed less at the same displacement. Even if it hadn't weighed less it would have still had a much greater power to weight ratio.


If they were going for absolute maximum power, they probably would've gone even bigger. It seems they want to get the most possible out of a 2l 4cyl.
woot!
2011-01-07, 6:20 AM #19
Well I think the reason it's not an I-6cyc is because they are trying to make the fastest "4g63" evo motor, since they are still using the head.
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2011-01-07, 6:23 AM #20
Cylinder layout has nothing to do with displacement. An inline six layout is superior to any four cylinder layout that isn't a "boxer" layout because the throws are reflected. This means the engine has no second order vibration and the crankshaft requires no counterweights and that the con rods are all the same weight. Due to the uulayout the crankshaft already has greater bearing surface area.

The only reason the inline six isnt used commonly today is because for some asinine reason one wheel drive cars are insanely popular.
2011-01-07, 10:26 AM #21
...one wheel drive?
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2011-01-07, 12:00 PM #22
I think he is referring to most 2 wheel drive cars with open differentials.
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2011-01-07, 12:33 PM #23
ah
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2011-01-07, 3:57 PM #24
One leggers, you know no good in an ass kicking contest.

I'm sure youve seen one stuck on the ice with one wheel spinning.
2011-01-07, 5:03 PM #25
Yep
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2011-01-07, 8:47 PM #26
Originally posted by EAH_TRISCUIT:
I'm not a car person so most of that is lost on me.

But I would be curious how much a complete Titanium engine block would cost. Sorta seems like a shame using Aluminum with almost everything else being Titanium. :)


The weight loss Titanium offers is most significant on rotating and moving parts like the crank, rods, valves and cams. The weight of steel components would put a severe limit on the maximum rpm of the engine. Titanium valves are used on fairly ordinary cars to deal with valve float.

The Beryllium pistons are interesting. I'm surprised you can get those given how carcinogenic Beryllium's supposed to be. Same with the Beryllium-Copper valve seats. I was under the impression that even the military had a hard time using those materials with all the health concerns. Maybe it was exaggerated.

I love the lack of a head-gasket. I had heard Rolls-Royce engines are machined fine enough to not need a head gasket.
Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....
2011-01-08, 9:31 AM #27
Well, "beryllium copper" is usually 0.5% to 3% beryllium and the rest copper. It's commonly used in springs.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2011-01-08, 12:18 PM #28
I encountered electrical connectors that used Beryllium Copper for the conductor pins. The tech said that they were hard to get because of restrictions on the use of Beryllium, and how it sucked because that little bit of Beryllium made the pins so much less prone to bend, and so on. Though he may have been misinformed.
The military style electrical connectors with a huge number of connecting pins were a pain to work with because of bending, or the conductors getting pushed back into the shield. It was tons of fun to troubleshoot phantom electrical problems.

It could be like Cadmium plating, where you can still get it, but there are fewer companies that deal in it. And this does seem to be a no-expenses-spared project.
Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....
2011-01-08, 9:50 PM #29
Originally posted by JLee:
IIRC titanium is 40% heavier than aluminum -- I highly doubt four iron sleeves would come close to making up the difference in weight.


According to this website, it's actually 60% heavier. I had no idea there was that big of a difference. I thought maybe 25% or so. I'm sure the block is much lighter in it's current setup.
Little angel go away
Come again some other day
Devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say
2011-01-09, 3:23 AM #30
13/22 is about 60%
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2011-01-09, 9:34 AM #31
ceramics are way cooler
2011-01-09, 4:27 PM #32
Originally posted by Crimson:
According to this website, it's actually 60% heavier. I had no idea there was that big of a difference. I thought maybe 25% or so. I'm sure the block is much lighter in it's current setup.


Ah yep, my bad.
woot!
2011-01-09, 10:45 PM #33
Originally posted by Rob:
ceramics are way cooler


What are you talking about? A ceramic block? If so, I'm intrigued.
Little angel go away
Come again some other day
Devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say
2011-01-10, 6:20 AM #34
I've seen ceramic coated exhaust headers
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2011-01-10, 9:26 AM #35
At some point, the headers that were on my 327 were ceramic coated. Since then, they've become cracked and broken and ugly.
2011-01-10, 2:56 PM #36
speaking of, hows your vette coming along?
My girlfriend paid a lot of money for that tv; I want to watch ALL OF IT. - JM
2011-01-10, 3:12 PM #37
Excellent. I dropped the engine in Friday, got the radiator, alternator, and all of the hoses and wiring hooked up yesterday. After work tonight I'm going to the carb on, hook up the gas lines, then spend most of the night tuning the carb. Hopefully, I'll be able to drive it home tonight, though it may take until tomorrow. After the break-in period, I'll post a video so you can hear how loud it is :awesome:
2011-01-10, 3:37 PM #38
Originally posted by Steven:
Excellent. I dropped the engine in Friday, got the radiator, alternator, and all of the hoses and wiring hooked up yesterday. After work tonight I'm going to the carb on, hook up the gas lines, then spend most of the night tuning the carb. Hopefully, I'll be able to drive it home tonight, though it may take until tomorrow. After the break-in period, I'll post a video so you can hear how loud it is :awesome:


:cool:
woot!
2011-01-10, 5:58 PM #39
Originally posted by Steven:
Excellent. I dropped the engine in Friday, got the radiator, alternator, and all of the hoses and wiring hooked up yesterday. After work tonight I'm going to the carb on, hook up the gas lines, then spend most of the night tuning the carb. Hopefully, I'll be able to drive it home tonight, though it may take until tomorrow. After the break-in period, I'll post a video so you can hear how loud it is :awesome:


Lean is mean, but high cylinder head temps are bad.

I always tune a little rich. Rich mixtures are cooler and are a little better for the life of the engine.
2011-01-12, 4:00 PM #40
Stay outta my thread spammer, ya herd?

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