I would be happy to see it made illegal, but I think this is one that needs to be handled by society. The damage circumcision causes is small next to the potential for abuse illegal circumcisions could have. It's also done for religious reasons, and while I don't think that's an excuse, it'd almost guarantee it'd still happen illegally.

I'd much rather people stopped wanting to cut their kids' penis' off.

The plural form of penis is penises, Kirbs.

Not at all what I'm saying. I only posted the benefits at all because ORJ kept saying he didn't think there were any. And I wanted to point out that there is evidence to suggest there is. My argument is much more along the lines of what you say below:


There. That's all I'm saying.

That's good. If or when you have children, you can make that call, and I won't judge you at all. But, after doing the research (which I did before Elliot was born, btw), I don't see it as immoral; I don't see it as offensive; and I don't see it as sexually repressive. I see it as a common medical practice that causes some temporary discomfort (that the kid won't remember anyway), but can potentially make life a lot easier later on, which is in my mind, no different than any kind of vaccine.

Also, Echoman.. don't you think it'd be cooler if it were penii?

You're kidding, right? Vaccines stop kids from getting DEADLY diseases. At best, circumcision reduces the odds of a kid getting an STD like HIV if they're already in a really bad situation (unprotected sex). But vaccines prevent diseases that are in the wild that anyone can get. That kids WILL get without vaccines.

I think it's all math in general. There was a paper submitted by some diabetes researchers about a method for "finding the area under a curve."

Hey, don't you be talking bad about Tai's Model! It's totally better than the Trapezoidal Rule!

ok.. circumcision reduces the odds that a man will get an STD. the flu vaccine reduces the odds that a person will get the flu... what's the difference again?

(Redefine your definition of vaccine. They don't always 100% prevent diseases or infections. And you're not guaranteed to get a disease or infection just because you didn't get the vaccine.)

Can't we just leave this at Sarn thinks that circumcision is a good idea whilst some others don't?

Oh and Detty, just what problems arise exactly from having too-large bollocks? Besides ones that involve a tailor.

It was one of these, completely harmless but I was getting fairly self-conscious about it, so I got it treated.

If it occurs on one side does it throw your balance off?

I think it's all anything they learned in high school or undergrad, because they won't need it when they're a doctor. :downs:

Edit: and Tai's Model didn't just get submitted, it was accepted, published in a serious peer-reviewed journal (ADA Diabetes Care) and it's been cited over 100 times.

i am and honestly, it does not bother me at all. not one whit. i literally could not be bothered any less that i have no forskin. personally i think it should be left up to the parents.

I answered religious/cultural because I live in the US. I was infant though.

I will say that while uncut dicks are fun to handle, I don't like having them in my mouth. Maybe it's because I need more practice though.

...

TMI?

In this thread there's really no such thing as TMI.

If there were, though, that would be right there on the line, tottering precariously from one side to the other.

Last night when I was posting at like 5 AM, I was trying to get work finished and I shouldn't have even bothered procrastinating on massassi to begin with, so excuse me for not extensively researching the subject at hand at that time.

Besides, I'm not all that active on massassi, so you may not have noticed, but I usually do my research and tend to provide sources and statistics when I can.

Today I googled on risks and benefits, but it provided no conclusive results either way. You'll end up with a whole list of hits that either link to pro- or anti-circumcision sites.

Looking for scientific papers, I learned there is a scientific consensus of sorts:



Source

There's a LOT of talk about scientific consensus on the discussion pages of the Wikipedia article on circumcision, but it's kind of a pain to find all the proper sources, I'll give you that.



But it was crystal clear that those weren't arguments. I was only wondering these things out loud, in hopes that anyone could provide some facts, because I didn't have the time to search for anything.



Up until that point I was just speaking from personal experience. I didn't make any hard statements whatsoever. The truth is that everyone was speaking from personal experience, including yourself. You can say you researched this stuff before your son was born, but I didn't exactly see you throwing around evidence or citing sources earlier. Instead, you decided that comparing circumcision to abortion was a valid argument.



Big words from the guy who posted a straw man that resembled the Titanic both in size and seaworthiness.

So, you decided to google something before someone beat you to it, and with laughable results. Because one of the things I learned is that circinfo.net (which you cited) is a well-known pro-circumcision site.



Yes, there is, but routine neonatal circumcision isn't recommended.



I personally do not believe parents should have that right, unless medical necessity warrants it. Consider:

Circumcision reduces the odds of getting an STD if he puts himself in danger, willingly. The probability that you'll get tetanus as a child is WAY higher than the probability that you'll end up in a bad situation (no condom) AND contract the STD.

Not only that, but not vaccinating your kids puts other kids at risk. See herd immunity.

Emon, not circumcising your sons puts their future sexual partner or partners at risk for infections. (see the info I posted earlier)

ORJ, I don't mind you (or anyone else) having an opinion about the matter, but I do mind you wanting to interfere with the choices I make in raising my children.

... If your kid is having unprotected sex, whether or not they have dickskin is probably the least of their worry.

It sounds to me like you're just justifying your decision instead of arguing in favor of circumcision. Is there such thing as circumcisor's remorse?

During UNPROTECTED SEX. It's a non-issue while wearing a condom, which they should absolutely be doing anyway. Also you cannot say "read it on webMD, argument over!" as if it's some canonical fact. Here's a hint: a lot of medical research is very bad and outright flawed. Just because it's on webMD does not immediately make it accurate or reliable. That's not how science works.



They are not your property and you are not allowed to decide everything for them.

I doubt that anyone here is in favor of terminating the life of a child. You appear to be confusing the word "fetus" with the word "child". There's only a contradiction in the mind of those individuals that mistakenly define "life" as beginning at conception. There's a rather large difference between aborting a fetus that hasn't yet developed consciousness & performing unnecessary surgery on a conscious human baby that is unable to decide whether or not said procedure is in their best interest. I understand the fact that parents must often make decisions for their children but I also understand that many decisions (e.g: circumcision) that are being made needn't be. Parents don't own their children. Slavery was abolished quite some time ago.

Why take away the child's right to decide? I would understand your point of view if the presence of foreskin posed a serious health risk. However, there's currently no evidence to support this.

I think that your point of view would only be valid if circumcisions couldn't be performed on adults. Most of the "benefits" of circumcision don't come in to play until the individual is old enough to make their own decision on the matter.

I'm not circumcised.

Which is a relief to at least two people.

I think when it comes to un-necessarily removing parts of a child's body interference is acceptable.

See, I think this is a really interesting subject of discussion. It's too bad nobody else does.

As I posted in the recommended reading thread, this book is incredibly insightful on this exact subject.

God damnit, Vin.

I lol'd