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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Dillweeds, Charitable Feelings, and Studio Culture
123
Dillweeds, Charitable Feelings, and Studio Culture
2011-04-09, 10:57 AM #41
I've had to babysit my nieces quite a few times, one of them was being extremely annoying, knocking things over, screaming, generally being a pain because I'm seen as the "fun" uncle who they can get away with stuff with.

Anyways, they wouldn't stop, sent the others to bed, kept this one downstairs, hung them from the ceiling, upside down until they said sorry and wouldn't do it again. It took all of about 2-3 minutes, after which they gave me a hug and went to bed nice and quietly, never had a problem since and they still all love me and coming running to meet me when I visit :D my brother now uses it as a scare tactic, although to be honest he just shouts a lot and they pay attention to him.

I personally wouldn't bite back...I don't enjoy the taste of child :P, but whatever works for you, hope you find whoever messed with your work.
People of our generation should not be subjected to mornings.

Rbots
2011-04-09, 12:27 PM #42
Originally posted by Freelancer:
It's more than possible to accomplish all those things without being annoying about it.


You can be rebellious without being annoying. I didn't say one has to be annoying.
ORJ / My Level: ORJ Temple Tournament I
2011-04-10, 8:31 PM #43
Quote:
Not to mention, verbal warnings CAN work in many children, especially if followed with traditional punishments like time outs, etc.

I mean, really, if that kid poked your eye out (on purpose), would you go back and poke their eye out? Where are you going to draw the line? Even if you wanted to go the physical route, is there something terribly wrong with simply spanking the kid? It sure seemed to work with millions of other kids!


Any other kid, any other context, and maybe traditional punishments would work...

...but (very much abbreviating a long story) she's the adopted only child of 50-something fundamentalist Christians; her adoptive mother also raised her biological mother (also adopted). The bio-mum was offspring of some genuinely crappy people... and the bio-mum spent the first several years of kiddo's life neglecting and abusing her in some ways that make "A Child Called It" seem damn friendly in comparison.
Following the adoption [read: rescue] [read: out of frying pan, into different frying pan], kiddo was an extreme wild-child. She wasn't even four yet, but she hadn't been socialized enough with people who gave her positive attention and reinforced acceptable behaviours. She spoke in grunts and gestures, and raising hand or voice to her turned her instantly into a cringing, corner-crouching pile of pity.

Time out would be literally impossible to reinforce, beyond tying her down or locking her up.
Spanking was out of the question; not only was she effectively psychologically immune to it (it was a constant in her life, not associated with being "bad"... just associated with being in the presence of somebody who felt like hitting her) but it essentially set her back to square one in terms of trust.
Verbal admonition was about as useful as farting upwind.

By the time I was babysitting her, her communication skills were vastly improved... enough for her to be in a severe tattling phase (as well as a biting phase, to which I hadn't been alerted in advance).
It had already been found that the most effective means of discipline were demonstrating the same unacceptable action in a way that engaged her to empathize. This wasn't always physical... sometimes she'd stop talking and avoid people for extended periods of time, as a way to manipulate them into giving her way...
...in which case the solution was to refrain from communicating with her. When she finally asked why she was being verbally avoided, it was explained that silent treatment wasn't going to work on us (parents, me, other relatives who had a hand in raising her) and that from then on she could be expected to get called out on it if she tried that tactic.
She got over it and didn't try silent treatments anymore.

The thing with this kid... she's sharp as a tack. The instant she figured out a way to get her way or to somehow be gratified, whether it was through positive actions or through manipulation, physical attacks on other people, or sneaking and lying... she'd try them and keep using them as long as she could get away with it.
She had literally never received positive reinforcement of any positive behaviours before her adoption, so what might be called her 'conscience' had to be developed from scratch, when she was already past being a toddler.
One tactic she tried was picking fights with kids big enough to whoop her. She hits, kicks, whatever... and she gets thrashed, as can be expected, when she doesn't give the bigger kid an opportunity to ignore her. She sees the big kid get punished, and she gets babied for being hurt.

Now compound that fight-picking manipulation attempt (which she apparently thought would get ME into trouble...) with her newfound biting ability. She wanted me to get punished, since I was the authority figure requiring that she behave herself well in my presence.
When I bit back, she learned that biting hurts. Upon seeing blood, she was able to make the mental connection that biting doesn't just hurt, it also inflicts visible damage.
When I didn't get punished, she learned that in the long run, attacking people with more power than you is just an easy way to get yourself into worse trouble than you bargained. She became aware of the fact that there ARE people in the world capable of visiting harm on her as retaliation, not just abuse, and that she can incur that retaliation through her actions. Up to that point, the kids she'd hit and kicked were still within a few years of her age; she hadn't yet made the connection that older usually means stronger and more credible to authority figures.
When she did get punished for the biting and tattling, she learned that if she starts trouble, and she draws attention to it, she'll be punished instead of her intended victim.

Because I never raised hand nor voice to her, I didn't make her frightened of me. Because I stood up to her manipulation and attack, I gained her trust and respect. She still regards me as her best friend, nine years later, and she confides in me about things she wouldn't dare tell her mum (who is herself a bit of a conspiracy theorist and religious nut, but that's a story for another day).

At this point... she's really a great kid. Every time I visit her, I want to get her away from her nutter of an adoptive mum, but she is well fed and clothed, safe, and surrounded by a pretty healthy environment (small subsistence farm, complete with chickens, goats, pony, assorted cute fuzzy things). She's deprived of information and outside human contact beyond me and the books I managed to sneak to her, but radically altering her living situation at this time in her life would do more harm than good, I expect.

Awhile back we went rollerskating, and we had a long and easy conversation; somehow we got onto the topic of the biting incident. She said (approximate quote), "I was so surprised you'd bit me back; it hadn't even occurred to me that you could or would. I think that was when I stopped being a solipsist. People weren't characters who sometimes hit. They were actually people."

*shrug* I know my actions will still look villainous and incomprehensible to a fair number of people here. That's fine; I figure everybody is monstrous in somebody's eyes. I just felt like making the overall situation a bit more clear, if possible, and to make note that the person on the receiving end of the retaliatory bite wasn't too screwed up by the experience.
Take it as you will.


Quote:
Yeah, my dad had different ways to make me feel bad. Never had to raise a hand at me. Also, going through your teens without a rebellious phase whatsoever sounds strange.

It doesn't just have to do with accepting authority, it's far more than that. It's discovering your own identity by doing things a different way than your parents did, to question their ideals and methods just so you can decide for yourself what is right and what is wrong about them.


Strange not to have a rebellious phase? Why?
By the time I was 17, I'd read over 2k books (I kept track, because OCD is fun like that). I had plenty of windows into extraordinary situations and ideal situations, eutopia and dystopia. I'd read global tragedies and holocaust stories. I had enough scope to say, "yaknow what... my life isn't sh*t enough for me to want to wreck it by back-talking every chance I get."
At the same time... I was the only child of long-ago-aforementioned crazy mum. I was isolated from what my schoolmates regarded to be a 'normal' nuclear family situation. I never really witnessed much of how other parents behaved around their kids, so I wasn't entirely aware that my mum WAS a nutter.
Lack of information, lack of awareness of 'another way'... those were enough to keep me compliant and quiet.
I was a savagely intelligent little git, but even though I devoured books at incredible speed, I still could only read what was within my access... and everything in my access came through Mum. Same with television. I didn't have Internet access until I was 17... so what I knew of parent-child interactions, to that point, were my mother's strict protocols for behaviour and my father's total lack of need to discipline me.

I wasn't rebellious, ever, because
1. It hadn't really occurred to me that I COULD rebel,
2. It hadn't really occurred to me that there was ANY aspect of rebellion that was not-stupid, and
3. Every kid I'd ever seen being rebellious was shortly thereafter on a really crappy course in life... pregnant, expelled, fostered into the system, juvie...

Pretty much from the onset of my academic life, I was on a firm trajectory to be a fantastically polite kid, talented musician, and meticulous student. Along with everybody around me, I assumed I was headed for university, even before I could really have a concept of what that entailed. I didn't rebel from it, because I saw it as an ideal conclusion to all the time and energy I had invested in reading, learning, performing perfectly in classes. Rebellion was a waste with no meaning, and I had no concept of a rational cause to rebel.

Later, I became cognizant of the fact that Mum was a bit funny-headed, but I also gained access to Internet and a public library, and I acquired a retinue of loyal friends who had me visit their houses. I gained perspective of how the average middle-class American family behaves in the home... and while I was appalled at how isolated I had been, in comparison... my intent on pursuing my academic trajectory was magnified. As sharply different as my living situation was, I realized my intellect and people skills were also markedly advanced compared to my peers, and that I had a massive advantage in those areas, if not in finances and home life. It became a silent battle: don't let Mum's verbal jabs and rules hurt too badly... and my reward is I eventually become financially and academically independent of her. Don't rebel now... win freedom and peace later.
If I was ever rebellious, it was purely in psyche, in the act of planning a life for myself beyond what she intended for me (she'd just as soon keep me in our podunk town working full-time at a menial job I would never learn to enjoy or even not-hate, because the odds of her getting grandchildren and the chance to own their lives would be magnified tenfold at that proximity).


Wow, Teal Deer!
*yawn* I'm a'gonna' go build some models for studio now, okey dokey?
Deity bless Xacto knives, Dr. pepper, and the ability to think in three dimensions.
2011-04-10, 8:46 PM #44
You read almost 3 and a half books every day you'd been alive up until you were 17? Or was it 4 and a half books every day since you were, say, 4 years old?
2011-04-10, 8:48 PM #45
Division is fun like that.
2011-04-10, 8:51 PM #46
Assuming 8 hours of sleep a night, and no other activities, that is a book every 5 hours since the day you were born.
2011-04-10, 9:02 PM #47
Assuming 8 hours of sleep a night, and no other activities, that is 5960752.69 minutes of reading.
2011-04-10, 9:13 PM #48
Assuming 8 hours of sleep a night, starting from age 4 and finishing at age 17, 1050 instructional hours per year from age 6, and assuming no other activities, that is one book every 3.7 hours.
2011-04-10, 9:15 PM #49
Assuming the above, at an average adult reading speed of 250 words per minute, the books contained about 50,000 words on average. That's a small novella each, less than 200 pages.
2011-04-10, 9:35 PM #50
Assuming you didn't have access to a public library, and all of the books are cheap paperbacks, it would cost you over $12,000 a year to keep a young Estelore entertained.

Assuming you did have access to a public library, a young Estelore would have been down to reading dictionaries and microfilm by the end of grade 8.
2011-04-10, 10:11 PM #51
Jonc, how much time did you end up spending by ridiculing her statement? :XD:

Perhaps pamphlets count as books.
It took a while for you to find me; I was hiding in the lime tree.
2011-04-10, 10:16 PM #52
Perhaps 'twas meant to say 2k :P
2011-04-11, 4:01 AM #53
The 2 is directly over the 0. :P
nope.
2011-04-11, 6:52 AM #54
My diagnosis: Asberger syndrome.
2011-04-11, 9:02 AM #55
lmfao
ORJ / My Level: ORJ Temple Tournament I
2011-04-11, 11:07 AM #56
Quote:
The 2 is directly over the 0.


On my keyboard, it is. >_<
I did some early reconfiguring so that the numeric pad is
987
654
321
-0-
[edit for clarity: numeric pad on my keyboard is in the middle of the main keyboard, not an offset. Not a full size board.]
I did mention OCD, neh?
Seriously. Typo. *edits*
2011-04-11, 3:01 PM #57
It's not on EVERY keyboard? :huh:
nope.
2011-04-11, 3:51 PM #58
So when you type simple 1-digit numbers like 2 in-line with text, you reach over to your numpad?



Admit it, you were flat out lying. It would be harmless exaggeration but you actually said you "kept track". Now who knows what parts of your story are real or fiction?
2011-04-11, 4:24 PM #59
Quote:
It's not on EVERY keyboard?

Quote:
So when you type simple 1-digit numbers like 2 in-line with text, you reach over to your numpad?


Edit.

I've had moderately a frustrating day; the post that was here was as close as I get to being digitally hostile.
I don't particularly approve of myself behaving that way, even toward strangers accusing me of lying.
Because of this, I'm doing a moderately-friendlier rewrite. I don't expect I would have hurt anybody's feelings, of course. I just hold a certain standard for my own human interactions, and my post did not meet those self-imposed standards.


Revision:

My laptop is tiny. There is no numerical keypad, just a single highly-crammed piece of keyboard. There are no wide open spaces between keys; ESC and F1 are touching each other.
My numerical keypad-equivalent (because typing on the number row forces an outward pivot of the wrists, a bit painful for arthritic piano-hands) is in the middle of the keyboard, activated by another easy-to-reach key.
In that active configuration, it's appallingly easy to bump 0 instead of (or along with) 2. In the course of typing normally, I frequently typo between those two keys, but since misspellings are more instantly noticeable to me than misnumbering, I generally catch them before I hit 'send'. I happened not to catch this one.
2011-04-11, 4:28 PM #60
Obviously Estelore is a work of fiction, just like sugarless and maevie. After all, real women don't exist on the internet. :P

EDIT: And I don't think you're a monster, I just don't approve of those methods.
The Plothole: a home for amateur, inclusive, collaborative stories
http://forums.theplothole.net
2011-04-11, 4:38 PM #61
Well, that depends on your definition of 'real women'. XD

As for my existence or lack thereof, if you want I can direct you to any number of other sites I frequent. You can compare my textual speech patterns to those of Free, if you are under the belief that I'm his sock puppet or some such. Frankly, I think I'm way too chipper and politic to be mistaken for him, and he's way too glib to be mistaken for me. :P

Also, when was the last time you saw him start a topic?
2011-04-11, 5:04 PM #62
Also, you have direction in life and do not idolize your mother.
2011-04-11, 5:42 PM #63
I would prefer the un-edited version.

Quote:
My numerical keypad-equivalent (because typing on the number row forces an outward pivot of the wrists, a bit painful for arthritic piano-hands)


Really? How are you placing your hands on the keyboard such that it requires some awkward pivoting of the wrist? Typing a "2" on the number line needs no movement other than extending your left ring-finger. It's actually easier on a laptop keyboard because the keys are closer. Are you actually using your right hand to press "2" on the number line? That's pretty retarded. Are you using your left pinky finger to hit "2"? So you move your wrist 10 degrees and it hurts? How do you live? Are you using your left index finger or thumb to hit "2" on the number line? That's pretty retarded. Where's your function key? I'm guessing bottom left. Where's your laptop numpad? I'm guessing on the right hand side, around UIO. So you're saying scrunching up your left hand to hold the function key, while hitting "K", is actually easier than keeping your wrist stationary and extending the middle finger or ring finger to "2" on the number line?

Also, you seem to be delusional about your level of intelligence. Maybe because you really are surrounded by morons. Before you actually amount to something outside of your small-town arts and crafts school, don't be going "Humans are dillweeds. For the most part, I love them in a roundabout, "gawsh, you're just so stupid it's almost cute!" way", "I was a savagely intelligent little git", "I realized my intellect and people skills were also markedly advanced compared to my peers" - you look like a pompous ****. Even people much more intelligent than you can ever hope to be don't have this attitude.

I figure you need all this to be told to you, because obviously you lack social skills. You are actually trying to justify biting another person's child? If you did that to my child, I would sue your ass back to the stone age.
2011-04-11, 5:51 PM #64
A lawsuit? Really?
nope.
2011-04-11, 6:00 PM #65
Originally posted by ragna:
I figure you need all this to be told to you, because obviously you lack social skills.


Hahaha. HAHAhahaha. ahahahahah. haaaa.
Warhead[97]
2011-04-11, 6:09 PM #66
Originally posted by ragna:
Even people much more intelligent than you can ever hope to be don't have this attitude.
TBQH the only thing she's said so far that's bothered me is complaining about how difficult and time-consuming her program is. The only people who ever complain about their programs always have it way too easy.

Engineering students don't complain about not having free time. Know why? Because they don't have time to.
2011-04-11, 6:42 PM #67
Quote:
Ragna's post


At this point, you leave me few options beyond presuming your sole desire in entering this discussion is to deliberately upset me. This implies further that you have no aim of civil interaction, and you certainly don't intend to add anything useful, intelligent, or worthwhile to the discussion. That being the case, while I find your post generally distasteful and saturated with blatant disrespect for a person who has yet to show you even the smallest unkindness, I oblige myself not to answer it with similar lack of civility.
From this point forward, I'm going to work from the inference that you only post in this thread at all to provoke me to behave in a manner I would consider unseemly. Consider this advance and mannerly notice that I may simply ignore your posts in the future. That is... if you want a rise from me, please do not be surprised that I don't take the bait you set.

On another note, one of my profs has said, "You aren't really an architect until somebody sues you. It's a rite of passage."
Whether or not I agree, I find a great many celebrated architects have been afoul the law or some person's delicate sensibilities at one time or another.

Also, your mother is a hamster.

Quote:
TBQH the only thing she's said so far that's bothered me is complaining about how difficult and time-consuming her program is. The only people who ever complain about their programs always have it way too easy.

Engineering students don't complain about not having free time. Know why? Because they don't have time to.

*shakes head*
Engineering students just suck at multitasking. We don't have time to complain separately from our work, so we complain in the seconds that pass as the glue sets on the models we build.


The busiest week(end) in my recollection, just going into Thanksgiving break last semester, I had two ten-page papers for arx classes (not too bad; I can churn those out pretty fast), a two-page paper for an elective class, a speech and board presentation for a core class, set of hand-renderings, and major print-outs and model progressions due in three separate classes. I was a zombie, and I didn't get online at all except to check email from professors and to grab research for the papers. The night before Thanksgiving was spent interviewing by telephone the only three people who had architectural information of any kind on the building that was the second paper's topic. I'm pretty sure I didn't sleep more than three hours a night for four days in a row, but I still probably slept more than most of my classmates. The bad luck for me was the obscurity of my research topic; the good luck was the abundance of time to crash and sleep after all eleven major assignments were submitted. I had one night to rest, then three more (comparatively minor) projects due the following day at the end of classes.
Compared to that week, yeah, stuff is pretty tame... but compared to other majors at this uni, we still have the widest discrepancy of credit hours to contact hours and outside work/study hours.

The programme isn't easy by any means, but it is forgiving compared to other schools just by virtue of having a lower population. Our professors tell horror stories of other schools with huge arx programmes, of mandatory drop rates that the teachers must compensate if the students aren't dumb enough to drop out on their own.
Our drop rate is relatively low, simply because there aren't enough of us to need to be forced out. Even then, my class is twenty-three members less populace than it was in the first semester of freshman year.


Regardless, it's only right that the programme be difficult. Building is an expensive and liability-heavy process, and it shouldn't have complete imbeciles running it. Having one forgiving and understanding professor during a severely stressful situation doesn't make all the other profs equally co-operative, and some of them consciously go out of their way to make our lives difficult, because they want us to be able to handle the stresses of grad school and the build site.

Long story short: complaining is an acceptable alternative to spontaneous combustion, albeit a less entertaining alternative.
2011-04-12, 10:22 AM #68
Originally posted by Estelore:
I'm friendly and gregarious among the handful of people I consider my best buddies, and I'm cheerful and pleasant with my classmates and colleagues.

Originally posted by Estelore:
I'm an incredibly polite, respectful, pleasant, earnest, trustworthy person. I am a straight-A student, piano instructor, architecture major, and member of the uni honours programme. I never had a "stupid rebellious self-destructive teenager" phase, because by the time I was a teen, I already recognized what I could and could not do short of incurring my parents' displeasure.

Originally posted by Estelore:
By the time I was 17, I'd read over 2k books.

Originally posted by Estelore:
I was a savagely intelligent little git, but even though I devoured books at incredible speed...

Originally posted by Estelore:
I was on a firm trajectory to be a fantastically polite kid, talented musician, and meticulous student.

Originally posted by Estelore:
I realized my intellect and people skills were also markedly advanced compared to my peers, and that I had a massive advantage in those areas, if not in finances and home life.


Please start reading about the Dunning-Kruger effect. You'll surely finish in no time, since you devour literature at incredible speeds. The moment you realize what I'm trying to tell you here, you'll see that this post is actually a contribution to your discussion, maybe even your life.
2011-04-12, 10:53 AM #69
Originally posted by Baconfish:
A lawsuit? Really?


Yes? She bit someone else's kid. The fact that this happened at all is far more baffling than the idea that someone might sue over it.
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2011-04-12, 10:58 AM #70
The Dunning-Kruger effect is so popular on massassi :cool:
2011-04-12, 11:15 AM #71
Originally posted by Michael MacFarlane:
Yes? She bit someone else's kid. The fact that this happened at all is far more baffling than the idea that someone might sue over it.

Maybe in your lawyerhappy country.
nope.
2011-04-12, 11:28 AM #72
He is a lawyer, so it is entirely reasonable for him to think everything is worthy of a lawsuit.

Personally, unless there were medical bills involved, I don't see this particular case as warranting one, even if the parents did disagree. But I'm just a dude.
Warhead[97]
2011-04-12, 11:33 AM #73
I know. :P
nope.
2011-04-12, 12:35 PM #74
speaking of Dunning-Kruger effect... does Heinrich Himmler fall within Godwins Law?
Welcome to the douchebag club. We'd give you some cookies, but some douche ate all of them. -Rob
2011-04-12, 12:53 PM #75
Originally posted by BobTheMasher:
He is a lawyer


Pft. I won't be a real lawyer for at least several more months. :P

You're probably right that this wouldn't be a case worth pursuing. (It might be a different story if the bite had become infected.) If I were one of the kid's parents and wanted to take action, I'd more likely file a police report than a lawsuit.
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2011-04-12, 1:11 PM #76
Being a lawyer is a state of mind. ;)
Warhead[97]
2011-04-12, 2:59 PM #77
Truer than you know.
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2011-04-12, 3:17 PM #78
Being a lawyer is a state of not being in the 40% of law graduates who make less money per month than their student loan payments
2011-04-12, 3:32 PM #79
Always such a buzzkill! :argh:
Warhead[97]
2011-04-12, 3:39 PM #80
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Being a lawyer is a state of not being in the 40% of law graduates who make less money per month than their student loan payments


Public defenders are lawyers too.
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
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