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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Tragedy of The Prequels
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Tragedy of The Prequels
2011-06-15, 7:05 PM #41
Originally posted by JM:
The prequels all make perfect sense once you realize that Palpatine wasn't just making a grab for power; he was trying to prepare the galaxy to repel the vong.


there are no vong in the canon of the star wars movies. it's fine to have that be a part of your understanding of the universe, but it doesn't explain or excuse that specific problem with the prequels plots.
2011-06-15, 8:20 PM #42
And I may have spoken too soon on Green Lantern, because it's getting horrendous reviews, which is a shame because it looks fantastic from the trailers.
>>untie shoes
2011-06-15, 9:36 PM #43
Originally posted by Antony:
And I may have spoken too soon on Green Lantern, because it's getting horrendous reviews, which is a shame because it looks fantastic from the trailers.


Dude it looks exactly like what I am hearing about it to me...

****
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2011-06-16, 12:48 AM #44
Originally posted by Deadman:
Wolverine was decent, X Men 3 was "OMG GOUGE OUT MY EYES AND DRIVE A NAIL FILE INTO MAH BRAIN"

Well ok, it wasn't THAT bad, but it was pretty damn awful.


I hate the liberties that The Last Stand took with the characters, but it felt like a far more competent film.

Wolverine is actually really good until the last 30 minutes where it just goes to absolute hell.
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2011-06-16, 12:51 AM #45
Originally posted by AKPiggott:
Wolverine is actually really good until the last 30 minutes where it just goes to absolute hell.



I'll cop to that. I also found the Wolverine game to be better than the movie, told the story more etc etc. Gameplay was a bit repetitive but as far as games based on movies goes, it's one of the best.
You can't judge a book by it's file size
2011-06-16, 7:53 AM #46
Yeah that game kicks ass.
>>untie shoes
2011-06-16, 7:53 AM #47
The prequels would've been better without so much goofy comedy relief, a basic understanding of tactics, and less Jedi.

(Jedi are literally killing SW)
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2011-06-16, 8:02 AM #48
Originally posted by Deadman:
I'll cop to that. I also found the Wolverine game to be better than the movie, told the story more etc etc. Gameplay was a bit repetitive but as far as games based on movies goes, it's one of the best.


The Wolverine game was pretty awesome.
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2011-06-16, 9:07 AM #49
I often ponder how the PT could have been structured better. Here's a rough outline of what I've come up with during my daydreams.

Episode 1: Obi-Wan, a lone Jedi Knight accompanied by a legion of Federation forces and senate representatives, arrives at an outer-rim planet to assist negotiations between opposing parties engaged in civil war in the capital. In the galactic center, a wise old Jedi by the name of Qui-Gon Jinn is reluctantly slipping further from the nobel duties of a Jedi as he struggles with the mundane task of mediating Senate discourse.
Obi-Wan uncovers plot that the rebel army fighting for control of the planet have allied themselves with a coalition force planning a war of independence from Federation influence in the outer-rim. Qui-Gon coincidentally uncovers plot within Senate representatives to unite in support of reform, a New Federation Goverment, pushing for greater powers of control over Federation systems.
Back on our outer-rim planet, the Federation forces are attacked and overwhelmed by the rebel forces and mostly slaughtered, the senate members captured. Obi-Wan escapes the war-torn capital and flees to a more remote part of the planet. Searching for a way off the planet he meets a teenage boy, Anakin, working in a ship repair yard. We learn Anakin was orphaned, no knowledge of who his parents were. Obi-Wan develops and immediate rapport with the lad, who is pro-Federation, and they hatch a scheme to steal a coalition transport from a starport and escape. The plan goes a little **** up but it's all fun. Obi-Wan notices a great aptitude in the lad's ability to use the force and generally do badass stuff.
After their escape, Obi-Wan and Anakin send distress to the Jedi, detailing the situation. Qui-Gon sees the connection, although is yet unable to deduce its meaning. As Obi-Wan and Anakin linger in space, biding their time, Obi-Wan begins to teach him some Jedi tricks and discovers Anakin has far greater potential than initially realised and offers to take Anakin as his apprentice. Anakin accepts. Meanwhile, Qui-Gon takes command of a Federation occupying force being sent to the outer-rim, intending to calm the hostilities of what is still thought by the Senate to be a civil war. Qui-Gon does not inform the Senate of the real threat and persuades the Jedi council to support this course of action. These decisions will have devestating consequences.
As the occupying army makes its way to the outer-rim, Obi-Wan and Anakin rendezvous with Qui-Gon at the command and devise a plan to retake the planet from the rebel forces. Queue big space battle, forces land on the planet and they have a bit of a battle. Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Anakin lead an assault on the capitol, intending to capture the rebel commanders. They encounter a completely unexpected foe, a mother****ing Sith Lord. Anakin is armed only with Federation issue blaster and the Sith Lord comes out of nowhere, taking the two Jedi by utter surprise, and before Anakin even has time to react the Sith cuts off Anakin's hand, blaster still in grip. Anakin goes into near shock from pain and fear. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan battle the Sith Lord, Obi-Wan is defeated and Qui-Gon kills the Sith Lord with great difficulty.
The Federaton assault is a success and the Federation assumes control of the planet. The death of the Sith lord, suspected of leading the insurgents, appears to disperse the rebel coalition. The movie ends with the conclusion of a tribunal investigation into the war and subsequent Federation invasion. They are aware of the existence of a rebel coalition. There is public backlash against the Jedi. Although Qui-Gon is cleared of any wrong-doing, the Senate enacts policy to prevent Jedi from taking command of military and requests the Jedi Council remove Qui-Gon from his duties as a Senate liaison. The Jedi comply.

That really took a long time to put together. I'll do my Episode 2 one later if anyone gives a ****. It'll have an older Anakin meeting an older Padme, daughter to prominent Senate representatives from Alderaan.
2011-06-16, 9:12 AM #50
*microwaves popcorn*

More please?
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2011-06-16, 9:24 AM #51
Needs more X and Y not to mention boobs, gore and titties.
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2011-06-16, 9:31 AM #52
Eh, Ep1 was fine it had it's **** together for the most part and spawned some decent games (On the other hand this was so long ago that Rogue Squadron 1 was still recent and people unironically played JK/MoTS...), but after that it's all comedy dialogue droids and JEDI, LIGHTSABERS, FORCE WOOO without an epic duel to Duel of Fates(?) to actually make me give a ****.

...and they still keep giving Gungans screentime...

The only upside of the later prequels is a cluster**** of a space battle in the beginning of Ep3, new Stormtroopers, and Republic Commando.
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2011-06-16, 12:19 PM #53
Republic Commando was so underrated. One of the bolder and more interesting Star Wars games.
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2011-06-16, 12:23 PM #54
To an extent. The main problem of the game was that it got really repetitive. Also, no co-op.
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2011-06-16, 12:29 PM #55
i actually just bought that game off steam, its flippin amazing!
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2011-06-16, 2:16 PM #56
Didn't like it, it was too short and enemies took FOREVER to die, you just sprayed them endlessly
2011-06-16, 5:25 PM #57
What do you mean enemies took to long to die? Anything that wasn't a huge lizard or an SBD didn't take long to me?
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2011-06-16, 8:00 PM #58
No EM grenades? Hope you have eighty ****ing clips.
2011-06-16, 10:51 PM #59
Republic Commando is an amazing game, yes.
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2011-06-16, 11:04 PM #60
I shall have to play it.
>>untie shoes
2011-06-17, 4:13 AM #61
I liked RC. Short, but was a good game nonetheless.
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2011-06-17, 7:36 AM #62
The ending sucked. It really, really, sucked. I won't spoil, but it felt like there was a whole level that was supposed to be at the end, and they just cut it off, and didn't bother to fix the story so it wouldn't be such an anti-climax.
2011-06-17, 8:04 AM #63
Hittin' up an Ep2 revision. I'm going to be cocking up a lot of EU stuff but look at how many ****s I give. I added a proper ending to my Ep1 revision, too.

Episode 2:
Six or seven years have passed since the civil war of the outer-rim. Futher disputes had ignited among systems in the outer-rim as war, terrorism and anti-Federation idealogy spread among the outer-rim and into the mid-rim. Anakin is now in his mid 20s and, quite remarkably, is being considered for Knighthood in the Jedi order. Our movie opens with a star ship, a delegates transport from Alderaan, entering the atmosphere of Coruscant. A hijack attempt is made on the transport by a group of unknown mercenaries. Their goal is to assassinate the Senate Representative and Queen to Alderaan, Breha Organa. The royal guard succeeds in defeating the attacking mercenaries and protecting Queen Organa. Some of the attackers escape, most are killed, and clues are left behind...
Queen Organa is travelling to Coruscant to take part in talks discussing the outer-rim occupation. This action is spear-headed by a newly appointed man-of-action Chancellor known to be in support of greater Federation control and suspected by the Jedi to have been involved with the New Federation conspiracy serveral years earlier. The position of Alderaan is against occupation. The Chancellor is assumed by our Jedi to support the occupation. The Jedi council, suffering declining trust of the people, is in a tense position of attempting to maintain democracy among the Senate while not opposing the newly elected, publicly loved Chancellor.
After his dismissal from Senate duties, Qui-Gon was secretly assigned the task of investigating the identity of the supposed Sith Lord encountered on Dantooine (Yeah, I've decided on that planet for our civil war setting in Episode 1. It resonates well with the OT and has a nice little history of conflict. Lets just ignore the other EU **** and pretend the planet has some large metropolitan areas.) He has spent the years since then carefully tracing the path of this unknown enemy around the outer-rim. Obi-Wan has assumed a role as Senate liason for the Jedi order to continue investigations of the apparent conspiracy uncovered several years earlier. However all trails have long since gone cold.
After the assassination attempt, Senate discussions are briefly postponed to assess security in and around the capitol. Obi-Wan is placed in charge of the security operation while Anakin, by direction of the Chancellor himself, is assigned to investiage the assassination. It is not long before Anakin uncovers a clue linking a Senate member and a remote outer-rim planet called Tatooine.
Anakin departs for Tatooine while Obi-Wan investiages the Senate link, under the guise of security assessment. On Tatooine, Anakin meets a local junker by the name of Owen Lars, and his sister, Padme. Anakin feels an immediate kinship for Owen and attraction to Padme, and is greatly moved by the dire conditions of life on this remote planet. Owen, even as a mere junker, provides a wealth of information about the local crime syndicates. After all, in a world where the criminals rule beyond the reach of the Federation, who would they have to hide from?
Qui-Gon follows a new trail into the mid-rim uncovered by the apparent Senate involvement in the attempted assassination, beliving a link to the mysterious Sith Lord. Anakin finds clues pointing toward involvement of the local crime lords, although he realises he is drifting further from supposed involvement by the rebel coalition. Padme, passionately opposed to the tyranny of the crime lords in the outer-rim, persuades Anakin to allow her to help him on his journey.
On Coruscant, as the Senate draws nearer to resume session, a large transport ship is intentionally flown into one of Coruscant's immense sky-scrapers, inexplicably avoiding defensive systems expected to prevent such attacks and killing hundereds of thousands in the process. The rebellion is immediately blamed and the people of Coruscant demand action against the attackers.
Anakin, reaching the end of his trail on Tatooine, uncovers clues directly linking the hired mercenaries to the Hutt crime lords, who have further connections with the crime syndicates ruling the outer-rim. Seeing the blind-eye of the Federation, Anakin begins to sway towards sympathy for New Federation idealogy. Qui-Gon, through his investigation, uncovers clues linking the Senator to the crime syndicates and a new insurgency preparing action against the Federation. (What I'm trying to establish here is that the rebels of our first movie were a mostly human group of radicals initially formed to assume independant control of the outer-rim, with this group establishing the foundation for what would transform into the Rebel Alliance united against the Empire. This new insurgent army being uncovered in this movie would be formed by the mostly non-human planets of the outer-rim, especially those planets controlled by crime syndicates like the Hutts, who are more interested in spreading their criminal empires than fighting for any political idealogy against the Federation. But who is bringing them together?...) By the time our Jedi have connected the dots, it is too late.
Where Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon recognise the Senate is being manipulated into action, Anakin is so greatly moved by the trials of the common outer-rim people he belives a greater Federation influence, and ultimately a New Federation government, is for the greater good. Padme, naive to the complexities of the situation and unknowning of proper Federation presence agrees with Anakin's viewpoint. Anakin leaves Tatooine to return to Coruscant, brining Padme with him, to deliver his findings to the Chancellor.
Qui-Gon, following the Senator's trail to the crime syndicates, arrives on a supposedly uninhabited outer-rim planet. What he uncovers is a vast cloning facility being used to grow the new insurgent army. However, they were waiting for him. A new Sith Lord appears from the shadows, more powerful than the last. Qui-Gon, now a tired old Jedi, is no match for the Sith's brutality.
The Chancellor calls an immediate gathering of the Senate to address the threat of the newly discovered rebel army. Obi-Wan desperately argues for reason in the Senate but fear and anger dominate. The Senate agrees by majority vote to enact greater powers of military action and conscription of Federation planets to boost the limited Federation army. The Chancellor announces Anakin as the hero, the lone Jedi who has delivered new hope to the Federation. The Jedi Council, with pressure from the public eye and the Chancellor himself, grant Anakin the rank of Jedi Knight. He is appointed chief of the Federation's counter-offensive against the insurgency. Obi-Wan, having lost contact with Qui-Gon, estranges himself from the council in search of his lost friend.
Queue dramatic end scene of huge Federation ships leaving Coruscant with massive conscripted forces marching across the airfield.
2011-06-17, 9:04 AM #64
I don't know if I liked that movie as much as your last one. Seemed like you said a lot, but I didn't see very many scenes in my head, and I think that was one of the biggest problems in the prequels. Half of the narrative is delivered in conversations between two people, as red letter media so clearly pointed out. I saw particular scenes depicting the ideas you mentioned in your first film, but all I see in this one is senate chambers and comms.
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2011-06-17, 9:13 AM #65
You know I absolutely agree with you. After I finished it I realised it was too much ****.. I'll do another one.
2011-06-17, 10:26 AM #66
Props to Jin for making stabs at a different PT! I was too lazy to read it, mostly because it was gigantic gobs of text, but I skimmed it and it sounds interesting.

Republic Commando was a great game! I played it a couple years ago when I bought the "Star Wars Best of PC" collection to get KotOR. Grawesome. Too short, though. And actually I thought the ending was decent. It basically leads directly into that section of RotS (section left unspecified to prevent spoilerage).

I agree that the Jedi should have been more mysterious. The idea of them pulling Batman disappearances is awesome too. In the PT they were too mundane and political. Also sometimes I think Jedi die too easily. I sort of like Dave Wolverton's take on the Force in "Courtship of Princess Leia" where it's powerful and mysterious.

However, I enjoyed the PT, especially RotS. I loved the epic space battle at the beginning, and wish there was more of it. All the lightsaber duels were awesome, too. I do wish that they'd covered the Clone Wars in the movies more, but I am really enjoying the cartoon.

A big difference between the Clone Wars and the Galactic Civil War is that in the former, both sides are relatively equal. It's a real war, rather than guerilla fighting. World War II as opposed to Vietnam. That's why I prefer the Clone Wars.
2011-06-17, 4:06 PM #67
Quote:
And actually I thought the ending was decent. It basically leads directly into that section of RotS


Sure, it meshes with RotS. But it's not RotS, it's Republic Commando. Having a movie tie in doesn't excuse having a ****ty ending.
2011-06-17, 4:38 PM #68
I don't understand what part of the clone war was remotely equal. It was engineered to cause fear and nothing more. Palpatine was running both sides, for christ's sake. The speratists didn't have a snoball's chance in hell of winning that.
>>untie shoes
2011-06-18, 12:07 AM #69
Heh... Republic Commando..... oh boy.

Also, in the future they won't call the old trilogy what they do at the moment. They will be... TODOA SEQUELS.

(THIS POST IS ALSO A JOKE)
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2011-06-18, 8:59 AM #70
JM - that is true. I would have preferred that it have an ending on its own, but the lead-in to the movie wasn't a totally terrible ending. That's all I was trying to say. Of course, to each his own.

Antony - true, because Palpatine was running both sides, they weren't actually "equal", given that the Separatists were meant to lose the whole time, but what I mean is, both sides had large armies and fleets that could engage in combat on battlefields, as opposed to one side having next to no resources and having to rely on sabotage and hit-and-run strikes.

Also, I take issue with JM's comment about Palpatine preparing the galaxy for the Vong. While, according to the EU, he may have been doing that, he STILL would have made his power grab without that. He's evil and power-hungry, and he's the culmination of a thousand-year plan started by Darth Bane. The earliest the Vong were in the galaxy was sometime during or just before the PT (as recounted in Greg Bear's "Rogue Planet"), whereas Bane hatched his plan a millennium ago.

Although, there are two plotholes right there, I admit.

1) Seems like Palpatine was able to accomplish his plan all on his own, without anything the previous Sith had done (though it could be argued that did little preparations in the galactic economy and political scene over the centuries).
2) If the Jedi didn't know about Darth Bane (since he went into hiding after all the Sith were presumed dead on Ruusan), how would Mace Windu and Yoda know that "Always two there are"? Although the Rule of Two was only reinstated by Bane from ancient sources such as Revan, the last the Jedi knew of the Sith, they were many! For a thousand years, no less, from 2000 BBY to 1000 BBY, there were many Sith factions fighting, till they all allied in Kaan's Brotherhood of Darkness.

I'm reading way too much into things, and I'm ranting. I'll stop now before I get an aneurysm. :P
2011-06-18, 3:46 PM #71
Frankly, it's about time the Star Wars universe got a reboot.
2011-06-18, 7:42 PM #72
Originally posted by JM:
Frankly, it's about time the Star Wars universe got a reboot.


Hope this is a joke, it is WAY too soon. WAY WAY WAY too soon.

Then again, will it ever be time?
2011-06-18, 9:36 PM #73
Originally posted by Couchman:
Hope this is a joke, it is WAY too soon. WAY WAY WAY too soon.

Then again, will it ever be time?


Are you basing that off the success of the movies or some other criteria? I only ask because Batman was rebooted after an 8 year break, Spider-Man a 5 year break, James Bond a 4 year break, etc. I even think they're rebooting Fantastic Four and Daredevil.

I would actually love to see a fresh take on Star Wars.
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2011-06-19, 6:25 AM #74
Originally posted by TimeWolfOfThePast:
Are you basing that off the success of the movies or some other criteria? I only ask because Batman was rebooted after an 8 year break, Spider-Man a 5 year break, James Bond a 4 year break, etc. I even think they're rebooting Fantastic Four and Daredevil.

I would actually love to see a fresh take on Star Wars.


I don't think anybody would fall for it. The Star Wars films are such an important part of so many generations lives, that if a reboot were attempted they would probably give the feeling that monkey business like the prequels was being pulled again. George Lucas has already lost a lot of credibility with Star Wars, I have no doubt that the films would draw massive amounts of money, but I think it would be more dead weight on the franchise and wouldn't find purpose in our lives as much as the OT did. With superhero films there are so many villians to explore, I can imagine it would be easier to reboot it and tweak his origin story, and have him face off against a new enemy or a reimagined one. I don't see how Star Wars can be reimagined, because who in there right mind would want to change anything about the OT, except maybe RotJ.

Besides, don't we have a TV show coming? Or two? Isn't that enough Star Wars media for awhile?
2011-06-19, 6:29 AM #75
Originally posted by TimeWolfOfThePast:
Are you basing that off the success of the movies or some other criteria? I only ask because Batman was rebooted after an 8 year break, Spider-Man a 5 year break, James Bond a 4 year break, etc. I even think they're rebooting Fantastic Four and Daredevil.

I would actually love to see a fresh take on Star Wars.
[/COLOR]
Well James Bond always gets rebooted and every other movie you've said is a comic book movie, which are based off sources that are constantly rebooted.

Star Wars is a little different. The same guy wrote all of them and the only really apart stylistic difference is linked with the technology available to make each movie. All the EU stuff is based off the movies. All the comics, video games and TV shows are based off the movies. The movies are the source. I hate to sound like a fanboy here but it'd be kind of like rebooting the Bible.

I don't really want to see a reboot of Star Wars. What I want to see is feature films set in other parts of the timeline, directed by anyone other than George Lucas. An Old Republic Trilogy would be ****ing aces.
2011-06-19, 6:49 AM #76
^ Agreed, hell, even if it was just Kotor1's story I would pay money to see it if it had a good writer and director.
2011-06-19, 7:21 AM #77
May i just say that you sir have absolutely NO life if you're choosing to spend your time aimlessly ranting about movies you don't even like. After reading your rant it is evident that you are just an ignorant ******* who hasn't seen the movies enough times to even say anything about them. You're obviously too simple minded to understand the importance and uniqueness of the characters.
Not only do the movies demonstrate love, friendship and family but in my opinion they are also the best ****ing Star Wars movies out there. But i actually feel bad for you, nothing can be done about your utter stupidity, you're obviously just a nerf herder yourself. Go **** yourself you illiterate douche bag.

Bye.
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2011-06-19, 8:02 AM #78
When did I say I didn't like them? I am saying because I love them so much I wouldn't want to see them redone. You basically paraphrased me in an overly aggressive manner and then called me stupid for saying what I said.

This is assuming you are directing your unreasonable rage at me, seeing as I was the last post, if not, use the quote feature.
2011-06-19, 8:16 AM #79
Hahahahaha! He's making a joke.
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2011-06-19, 10:35 AM #80
Originally posted by Jin:
I don't really want to see a reboot of Star Wars. What I want to see is feature films set in other parts of the timeline, directed by anyone other than George Lucas. An Old Republic Trilogy would be ****ing aces.


It would just either be like regular SW but with different Stormtrooper and ship designs, or like those comics that make it look like LoTR in space, or even worse and you get NJO which would probably destroy the franchise. If you're really lucky maybe you might get Thrawn...or BFC, but you should probably assume the worst from "directors" inevitably trying to be "creative" and/or "artistic".
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