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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Kelly thomas
Kelly thomas
2011-08-03, 3:18 PM #1
Normally I am very skeptical of "excessive force" stories. But this looks REALLY bad. The guy was a homeless schizophrenic, so he likely did resist arrest. He was beaten into a coma by police and later died.

As a warning this link has a VERY graphic picture of Thomas in the hosPital!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019225/Kelly-Thomas-Police-beat-taser-gentle-mentally-ill-homeless-man-death.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
Welcome to the douchebag club. We'd give you some cookies, but some douche ate all of them. -Rob
2011-08-03, 4:44 PM #2
How many of the people outraged by this gave a **** about this guy when he was just some homeless nut job?

Where was the father when this guy was living under a bridge?

**** the police, but then **** all the rest of them too.
2011-08-03, 4:48 PM #3
Ugh, why do you people hate the police so much? These officers are heroes, out on the dangerous streets every night fighting to keep our race pure. They deserve to beat up the occasional hobo, retard or queer to work off some of the tension from their brave and difficult life choices. You should be ashamed for trying to inspire moral outrage against these outstanding examples of law enforcement.

And why does that article draw so much attention to the fact that the man was tasered? Should the police have beat him more instead???
2011-08-03, 5:40 PM #4
I heard about this on the radio, and immediately responded like JM did regarding the father, but my mother corrected me. A lot of homeless people simply won't come off of the street because of their mental disabilities and such. The father very well could have been trying to get him to clean up, or maybe he had succeeded before and this was a relapse? Homelessness is a very complex issue.

But yeah, then I came home and looked at the actual results of the beating and it is clear these guys took their aggression out on this poor man.
ᵗʰᵉᵇˢᵍ๒ᵍᵐᵃᶥᶫ∙ᶜᵒᵐ
ᴸᶥᵛᵉ ᴼᵑ ᴬᵈᵃᵐ
2011-08-03, 6:12 PM #5
That's unfortunate, but hopefully this doesn't result in a bunch of jackoff idiots going out and attacking random cops or some ****.
>>untie shoes
2011-08-03, 9:28 PM #6
Apart from the taser point Jon'C already made which was one of the first things to jump out at me, I also can't help but notice that there is basically ZERO information about the actual circumstances. There's hardly even any information about the results, except that he died. From what? What injuries did the officers actually recieve?

I withhold judgement until more information is available, or more likely until a celebrity says something offensive and no one cares anymore.
Warhead[97]
2011-08-03, 10:22 PM #7
Thats pretty sad . . . :(
Police should be held responsible for the thing.
WalterJr
2011-08-03, 11:15 PM #8
I nearly thought this thread was about Vin :(

Anyhow, it's rather disturbing but also that article's from the Daily Mail, so I'll repeat what BobTheMasher said.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2011-08-03, 11:24 PM #9
Here's an interesting link with more "information" on this case.

The concept of resisiting arrest is ridiculous. There's nothing more natural than struggling to get away from armed goons that have a long history of opression & brutality (including murder). I'm not at all surprised that the police would murder a citizen (assuming that it wasn't an assisted suicide). Not only have they been murdering us for quite some time, but they're also in the perfect position to attempt a cover-up & they're rarely ever punished to the extent that the rest of us are (e.g: even if they shoot you in the back in broad daylight, they can just claim that it was an accident). It's great that technology now allows everyone to take photos & videos of the police so that we can at least have evidence of any wrong-doing but even that is becoming difficult due to brutality against photographers &/or videographers (luckily the courts are beginning to side against the police on these matters).
? :)
2011-08-03, 11:47 PM #10
Yeah, this is all over the news where I live. Fullerton, where it happened is about 3 minutes down the freeway. The guys family didtry to help him whenever they were able, but he just did not want to live in a house or any one place. I guess on the occasions they were able to convince home to go back on meds he would start doing better, but then he would stop taking them because he didn't think he was sick, and would quickly go back out on the streets.

It is also looking like one cop in particular was responsible for the worst of the beating. I dont really get why they ate emphasizing the tazer so much either. But yes... Really crappy all the way around.
Welcome to the douchebag club. We'd give you some cookies, but some douche ate all of them. -Rob
2011-08-04, 1:10 AM #11
Quote:
There's nothing more natural than struggling to get away from armed goons that have a long history of opression & brutality (including murder).


For the less intelligent among us, yes.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2011-08-04, 1:21 AM #12
I think in stories of heroism we lose track of the people. I'd like to take a moment to tell you about an important man: Jay Cicinelli.

[http://nullptr.ca/images/dumpyfascistdouche.png]

Jay Cicinelli is the Aryan superman responsible for this and many other glorious victories against the browns and the poors. His story is one that is familiar to all of us: Officer Cicinelli has only one eye. Even though some people say his disability makes him "dangerously incompetent," and "unsuitable for police work," Cicinelli's police chief friend saw the true light of justice shining within his heart and gave him a job immediately.

This story is a perfect example of how dedicated Cicinelli is to his principles. Not only did witnesses report that Officer Cicinelli was responsible for the most severe beatings and repeated taserings, but they even said that Officer Cicinelli curb-stomped the retard. As we all know, the curb stomp is the most mysterious and powerful technique, taught only to our greatest jackbooted liberators.

Perhaps Cicinelli's one flaw is a lack of humility, as he spent the following days boasting of his accomplishments to his fellow officers. Hopefully this lighthearted prodding will encourage more of his colleagues to follow his great example.

God bless.
2011-08-04, 2:32 AM #13
That's convenient, he even looks like a pig!
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2011-08-04, 2:36 AM #14
Ugh, how disgusting, Krokodile. This man is a hero because of what he did. That's why he and his five friends have been awarded paid vacations.
2011-08-04, 3:56 AM #15
Originally posted by Freelancer:
For the less intelligent among us, yes.


How about for the schizophrenic homeless amongst us?
You can't judge a book by it's file size
2011-08-04, 5:06 AM #16
Originally posted by Freelancer:
For the less intelligent among us, yes.

I don't know that I believe that only the unintelligent would resist/struggle. I think it's quite possible for even "intelligent" people to become emotional (e.g: angry, fearful, etc.) about certain situations (e.g: unlawful arrest). I've read some real horror stories that would likely upset even the most enlightened amongst our species. There were, in my opinion, justifiable uprisings in this country (e.g: Laborers &/or Socialists) that helped to bring about a certain amount of positive change & often times their methods went far beyond mere resistance. The police & even the armed forces (those that didn't resign) were often used as a weapon against said movements. It's only recently that many states have made it illegal to use violence against someone that's unlawfully arresting you (nowadays we just sue them afterwards). I would also argue that Harvard Professor Louis Gates, who "resisted arrest", is a rather intelligent person. I recognize the fact that you were probably referring to "struggling to get away" moreso than "resisting" but there's quite a bit of overlap there.
? :)
2011-08-04, 5:18 AM #17
The people watching too. I've yet to read a single story where the spectators kicked the cop's asses. I'm waiting for one where another cop arrests the ones doing the beating, too.
2011-08-04, 7:00 AM #18
Yeah, it is not looking good.
Warhead[97]
2011-08-04, 8:24 AM #19
Originally posted by JM:
The people watching too. I've yet to read a single story where the spectators kicked the cop's asses. I'm waiting for one where another cop arrests the ones doing the beating, too.


Yes, because it's always a great idea to attack a heavily armed man who is already beating a defenseless human being. Sounds like that will turn out wonderfully.
>>untie shoes
2011-08-04, 12:18 PM #20
Originally posted by Mentat:
I don't know that I believe that only the unintelligent would resist/struggle. I think it's quite possible for even "intelligent" people to become emotional (e.g: angry, fearful, etc.) about certain situations (e.g: unlawful arrest). I've read some real horror stories that would likely upset even the most enlightened amongst our species. There were, in my opinion, justifiable uprisings in this country (e.g: Laborers &/or Socialists) that helped to bring about a certain amount of positive change & often times their methods went far beyond mere resistance. The police & even the armed forces (those that didn't resign) were often used as a weapon against said movements. It's only recently that many states have made it illegal to use violence against someone that's unlawfully arresting you (nowadays we just sue them afterwards). I would also argue that Harvard Professor Louis Gates, who "resisted arrest", is a rather intelligent person. I recognize the fact that you were probably referring to "struggling to get away" moreso than "resisting" but there's quite a bit of overlap there.


Man its anarchy man, you cant arrest or police my brain man.
2011-08-04, 2:46 PM #21
Originally posted by Mentat:
The concept of resisiting arrest is ridiculous. There's nothing more natural than struggling to get away from armed goons that have a long history of opression & brutality (including murder).


Honestly, that's quite a small portion of police brutality incidents given how much police activity there is everyday, if you are trying to use this as evidence to support your claim. I'm sure there's a lot more, but using a page that lists 75 incidents is pretty trivial. I'd say that's a startling good rate, considering the position the police are in. Just like I'm startled everyday about how relatively "little" car accidents we have in America.

Obviously I don't agree with brutality or force of ANY kind by anybody, and its pretty obvious that this cop was a pretty bad guy, but to paint the police as "armed goons" that have a long history of brutality is slightly naive. It's not even slightly accurate, and using THAT Wiki page as evidence is also a huge huge huge huge monster jump to a conclusion. Since when is a sample of 75 incidents representative of a population that through history is well above probably 20 million. There's somewhere around I think ~700k cops at all levels in the entire country. Now extrapolate that out to how many unique cops we've had over 100 years. I'd wager that the majority of those cops are perfectly decent people.
"His Will Was Set, And Only Death Would Break It"

"None knows what the new day shall bring him"
2011-08-04, 3:38 PM #22
Everybody squirms when there are knees on your neck and back.

That's resisting arrest...
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2011-08-04, 4:29 PM #23
I like how, in many places in the "first world", taking pictures of the police is a crime.
How the **** did we let that happen?
2011-08-04, 6:05 PM #24
Totally off topic:

When I was in high school we had an RCMP officer visit one of my classes. She knew that many of us were curious about firearms, but she wasn't going to let teenagers pass around a loaded gun! No, that'd be crazy illegal.

Instead, she gave her unloaded pistol to someone at the front of the class, to pass back, and gave the loaded magazine to someone at the back of the class, to pass forward.
2011-08-04, 6:49 PM #25
**** tha police
Comin straight from the underground
Young ***** got it bad cuz I'm brown
And not the other color so police think
They have the authority to kill a minority
error; function{getsig} returns 'null'
2011-08-04, 8:09 PM #26
LOL
2011-08-04, 8:09 PM #27
Originally posted by Tibby:
I like how, in many places in the "first world", taking pictures of the police is a crime.
How the **** did we let that happen?


we didn't because it isn't

it's only a crime if in the course of your actions you get in the way of them doing their job
eat right, exercise, die anyway
2011-08-04, 8:23 PM #28
He's referring to the fact that, crime or not, in many places you will be arrested, your devices 'confiscated' (that is, stolen) and you will be prosecuted, for recording a police officer, out on the street, in front of witnesses. It's 'illegal wiretapping'. We have so far only won a very few court cases against this.

If the cops treat it like a crime, then it might as well be illegal. You're getting punished. If they arrest you, and hold you for hours, and then kick you out and give you back your phone with all the pictures erased, or just keep it, you have been punished. They don't even have to charge you with anything to punish you, let alone prove it in the courts. They have all the power, **** the police.
2011-08-04, 9:36 PM #29
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Totally off topic:

When I was in high school we had an RCMP officer visit one of my classes. She knew that many of us were curious about firearms, but she wasn't going to let teenagers pass around a loaded gun! No, that'd be crazy illegal.

Instead, she gave her unloaded pistol to someone at the front of the class, to pass back, and gave the loaded magazine to someone at the back of the class, to pass forward.


The cop disease (and the military disease) is often a symptom of unwarranted self importance. Unfortunately, that doesn't generally come with intelligence.
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2011-08-05, 12:00 AM #30
Originally posted by mscbuck:
Honestly, that's quite a small portion of police brutality incidents given how much police activity there is everyday, if you are trying to use this as evidence to support your claim. I'm sure there's a lot more, but using a page that lists 75 incidents is pretty trivial. I'd say that's a startling good rate, considering the position the police are in. Just like I'm startled everyday about how relatively "little" car accidents we have in America.

Obviously I don't agree with brutality or force of ANY kind by anybody, and its pretty obvious that this cop was a pretty bad guy, but to paint the police as "armed goons" that have a long history of brutality is slightly naive. It's not even slightly accurate, and using THAT Wiki page as evidence is also a huge huge huge huge monster jump to a conclusion. Since when is a sample of 75 incidents representative of a population that through history is well above probably 20 million. There's somewhere around I think ~700k cops at all levels in the entire country. Now extrapolate that out to how many unique cops we've had over 100 years. I'd wager that the majority of those cops are perfectly decent people.

The website states that "this list compiles incidents of police brutality that have garnered significant media and/or historical attention". This page goes in to a bit more depth & even explains why I'm not able to offer sufficient evidence for my case. I would also like to add that "police brutality" encompasses far more than beatings & murders.

Quote:
While the prevalence of police brutality in the United States is not comprehensively documented, statistics on police brutality are much less available. The few statistics that exist include a 2006 Department of Justice report, which showed that out of 26,556 citizen complaints about excessive use of police force among large U.S. agencies (representing 5% of agencies and 59% of officers) in 2002, about 2000 were found to have merit.[SUP][20][/SUP]Other studies have shown that most police brutality goes unreported. In 1982, the federal government funded a "Police Services Study," in which over 12,000 randomly selected citizens were interviewed in three metropolitan areas. The study found that 13.6 percent of those surveyed claimed to have had cause to complain about police service (including verbal abuse, discourtesy and physical abuse) in the previous year. Yet only 30 percent of those who acknowledged such brutality filed formal complaints.[SUP][21][/SUP] A 1998 Human Rights Watch report stated that in all 14 precincts it examined, the process of filing a complaint was "unnecessarily difficult and often intimidating."[SUP][22][/SUP]
While the prevalence of police brutality in the United States is not comprehensively documented, statistics on the use of physical force by law enforcement are available. For example, an extensive U.S. Department of Justice report on police use of force released in 2001 indicated that in 1999, "approximately 422,000 people 16 years old and older were estimated to have had contact with police in which force or the threat of force was used."[SUP][23][/SUP] Research shows that measures of the presence of black and Hispanic people and majority/minority income inequality are related positively to average annual civil rights criminal complaints.[SUP][24][/SUP]
Statistics on police brutality are much less available. The few statistics that exist include a 2006 Department of Justice report, which showed that out of 26,556 citizen complaints about excessive use of police force among large U.S. agencies (representing 5% of agencies and 59% of officers) in 2002, about 2000 were found to have merit.[SUP][25][/SUP]
Other studies have shown that most police brutality goes unreported. In 1982, the federal government funded a "Police Services Study," in which over 12,000 randomly selected citizens were interviewed in three metropolitan areas. The study found that 13.6 percent of those surveyed claimed to have had cause to complain about police service (including verbal abuse, discourtesy and physical abuse) in the previous year. Yet only 30 percent of those who acknowledged such brutality filed formal complaints.[SUP][26][/SUP] A 1998 Human Rights Watchreport stated that in all 14 precincts it examined, the process of filing a complaint was "unnecessarily difficult and often intimidating."[SUP][27][/SUP]
Police brutality can be associated with racial profiling. Differences in race, religion, politics, or socioeconomic status sometimes exist between police and the citizenry. Some police officers may view the population (or a particular subset thereof) as generally deserving punishment. Portions of the population may perceive the police to be oppressors. In addition, there is a perception that victims of police brutality often belong to relatively powerless groups, such as minorities, the young, and the poor.[SUP][28][/SUP] A 1968 study in three large cities indicated that police brutality was “far from rare,” and that the most likely victim was a lower-class man of either race.[SUP][29][/SUP]
Recent Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch reports confirm that prison guard brutality is common in the U.S. A 2006 Human Rights Watch report revealed that five state prison systems permit the use of aggressive, unmuzzled dogs on prisoners as part of cell removal procedures.[SUP][30][/SUP]

If you're truly interested in the history of police brutality, study the Anti-War, Civil Rights, Communist, Laborist & Socialist movements that took place in this country, where the police were used as a weapon by your friendly neighborhood corporate overlords. "A People's History of the United States" by Howard Zinn will give you a rough idea of what I'm referring to.

I would also like to add the possibility of statistics not much mattering when it comes to an armed individual coming at you aggressively (as the police very often do). My brother has never shot anyone & has military training but that doesn't make me feel any more comfortable being around him when he has his AR. The prevalence of PTSD & depression (something that many police officers also suffer from) amongst the armed forces makes me feel even more nervous around him if he's holding a firearm. My father has used guns for 40+ years & also has military training but that doesn't make any difference when he accidentally points his 9mm Smith & Wesson at my baby daughter (like he did last Thanksgiving). He said that it was unloaded & I'm sure that it was but that doesn't mean that it's not rational for me to be nervous about such situations. The police, while quite possibly statistically safe, offer an even worse scenario.

The only case that I was making is that it's not necessarily always irrational to resist arrest (unless we're referring to the way in which a bear attack victim is supposed to lie still & pretend to be dead until the attack is over). [/SIZE]
? :)

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