Warren Farrell's biggest problem is that he sounds like a whiny little boy whenever he says anything.

But second wave feminism was considered extremist in its time. It wouldn't surprise me if, in the future, much of the current crop of feminist ideas will seem like a natural continuation of the old guard. There're some concepts which aren't really mainstream yet that I've come across where my gut reaction has been to scoff at it only to realise I was being a dick and they have a point: e.g. male gaze, rape culture etc.

The problem is that the feminist umbrella is so broad that it also ties in ill thought-out no-platform policies like the one above, some regressive advocates who go beyond campaigning for equality (i.e. the custody issues that pushed Warren Farrell out) and some pretty horrible transphobia (see Julie Bindel or RadFem2012 for example).

This is where we really see a difference between the legit feminists and the radical feminists.

Right now men face some serious social problems. Being treated as expendable by society, automatically suspected of pedophilia whenever they are with children, being portrayed as bumbling morons and incompetent fathers on television, being expected to stay at work later because fathers aren't as important to their children as mothers. There are lots of little social injustices that are really hurting us in a lot of ways (like the gender education gap). Legit feminists really do care about all of this, because they're primarily concerned with ending gender discrimination entirely.

Radical feminists, on the other hand, only care about describing their own grievances in terms of "the patriarchy". It's a fundamentally sexist movement, and where it isn't sexist, it's racist. The fact that they discriminate against the current in-group, white men, doesn't change that fact. Many of the problems faced by men today were created by the radical feminists in the 1970s, who worked to re-frame fatherhood as essentially irrelevant to the child-rearing process. So, basically, the movement today consists of a bunch of 20-something vapid children spewing the most hateful things they can think of, kept deliberately ignorant of the negative historical role of their own movement so that the worst academics in academia can conceal their sins. This is how you end up with the type of sexist thinking in that video, e.g. "men aren't allowed to complain about the negative effects of patriarchy", as if it benefits us and not them.

Don't really have a better place to put this.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1772396160/im-learning-to-apologise-for-my-metabolism-photo-b

Most of what I come across (blogs and such) seem to be like this. What are some examples of radical feminism, by your definition? I remember one from school with that one woman who thinks all porn is inherently degrading to women, and that other bat**** insane psycho what the **** woman who thinks any form of consensual sex is rape. But those seem to be very much in the minority, if obnoxiously vocal.

The people in the video, for one. Whoever wrote "men can't complain about the consequences of the patriarchy" believes, full stop, no debate, that everything wrong with society is caused by men, so therefore men have no right to talk about it. That one woman, who - screaming to the point of hoarseness - believes that anybody who even tolerates the existence of the message is a rape apologist, if not a rapist. If you asked any of these people, they would self-identify as feminists.

Gender feminism is inherently sexist, based on the unproven belief that all cultural institutions exist to reinforce male dominance over women, and thus the only intellectual work left is to find the "smoking gun" (i.e. all men are guilty until proven innocent). For example, this is the basis of the theory that the gender wage gap is caused by direct extrinsic sexism, rather than intrinsic economic factors. To the list of bad feminists I would therefore add Hillary Clinton, and most other politicians who have weighed in on this topic. (A rigorous gender feminist would at least concede in part, but still consider the economic decisions of women which lead to weaker outcomes as shaped by the patriarchy. I'm sure there are feminist academics out there who have done this work, but radical feminists start and stop any discussion on this topic with a straight-up accusation of sexism.)

The cross-breeding of social justice and feminist theory (intersectionality) has given us an entire movement of people who are incredibly difficult to coexist with, people who claim they are protecting classes of people from 'hidden discriminations' but have really just mastered the art of discrimination on the entire matrix of personal attributes. What, you were born white, male, and straight? **** you, you aren't allowed to talk. You have 515 social capital points too many. Go check your privilege.

Active discrimination is always in the minority.

You and I know what feminism means. I'm certainly one, in the literal sense (in tyool 2012 it's morally indefensible to not be one). Absent a prepared definition of feminism, though, only 24% of women and 14% of men consider themselves feminists. That doesn't mean 81% of people support gender inequality; what it means is that the word "feminist" has been skewed into something vile through the influence of pseudo-intellectuals. I certainly try to differentiate mainstream feminism from radical feminism when I talk about it, although I don't always succeed.

What time and which group? I'm confused because of how vague you left this part of your post.

THE JOKE IS HITLER

I meant more in academia, I know I've come across a few papers but am largely not that familiar with the body of work.


Yes, absolutely. A male friend of mine very much believes in gender equality, and would in fact be rather vocal about it. Yet for quite some time, only because no one told him otherwise, thought that "feminism" actually meant rising above equality to a point where women's rights would exceed those of men, and only understood feminism to relate to equality in the historical context.


As I've read your posts in this thread, I was a little unsure because I more associate "feminism" with egalitarianism. So it comes off strange to say "radical feminism" because "radical equality" doesn't make any sense. My girlfriend, similarly, has to go out of her way to call herself a "moderate" feminist to avoid confusion. More evidence of how diluted the term has become.

Well, there's the entire Marxist Feminist movement which categorizes the nuclear family as a sort of capitalist regime, where the father is bourgeois and the mother is proletariat, with the ultimate goal of eliminating the family as a social construct. There's Sandra Harding, who called Newton's Principia Mathematica a "rape manual". Catharine MacKinnon argued that, because of the coercive power of the patriarchy, there is no real distinction between consensual sex and rape. Harding also argued that the epistemology of science is inherently biased toward men, so the only way to arrive at true objectivity is to include the diverse experiences of the oppressed (probably a good move for sociology, not so much for astrophysics). Those are some really famous examples of crazy in academia.

If you're looking for academic criticism of academic feminism, you can always read Christina Hoff Sommers' earlier papers which she published as an ethicist. But here we run into a problem. You aren't going to find a lot of good peer-reviewed academic feminist criticisms of academic feminism because, well, they don't pass peer review.

Wow, I had to look this up. Apparently she later said she regretted the statement. How she could ever thought it was remotely true or acceptable is great evidence to her insanity

Not to mention the disproportionate suicide rate in men



They were rather successful, too:

http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2012/12/08/children-are-as-likely-to-end-up-living-with-neither-parent-as-they-are-with-just-their-father/



http://www.thelocal.se/468/20041005/#.UMUfhuS5Mpl

I think people ignore how extreme feminism can be. If you go watch neo-feminist twitters/tumblrs, you'll see some of these very extreme views are startlingly popular.

http://www.avoiceformen.com/portal/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Tatoo.jpg

This person was one of the main leaders in the protest at the U of T.

I am talking about National Socialist German Worker's Party, more commonly known as the Nazi party. Before they gained true political power they coercion and violence to prevent communist ideas from spreading.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Thank you for that fantastic contribution..

Now do you mind being serious?

Of course she regrets it, it's a ridiculous remark. She and a lot of other feminists got swept up in postmodernist science criticism in the late 80s, a fad that pretty much died when Sokal revealed them all as vapid frauds.

http://feminismrising.tumblr.com/post/37490574584/you-say-99-of-rap-is-male-on-female-can-you-link-me

I'd say this very modern opinion is rather radical.

http://www.ncsmc.org.au/wsas/violence_and_abuse/definition_of_domestic_violence.htm#What

How about this lovely page that claims a man committing suicide is a form of psychological abuse for women?

I would rather make a blatantly sarcastic comment for you to mistake as sincere.

Yeah... I am friends with more than a few people who are regular "social justice tumblr's" and they are very often unbearable to be around when anything political comes up. their favorite phrase is "check your privilege!" and when you challenge them on anything their answer is inevitably "because f**k you!" there is literally no reasoning with them if you are not in lock step with their beliefs.

While we're on about ridiculous feminist quotes, try the one I previously alluded to:


Monica Sjöö, dedication of "The great cosmic mother: rediscovering the religion of the earth" [/COLOR]

I don't get what you meant then, if that laugh was sarcastic.

It must have been guilty laughter since is secretly a National Socialist German Worker.

If you think Hitler was a socialist you're p.stupid, but I'm not even sure what's going on in here anymore I'm just throwing that out.

This Tibby. I like this guy. I call him the garbage man because he's always throwing things out.

I think you go out of your way to sound as idiotic as possible.

You must be my aunt; at dinner she once jumped down my throat for calling the Communist Party of China "the communists". She said they aren't communists so I can't call them so.

They don't really practice communism, though. To the best of my knowledge they are a totalitarian aristocracy that practices highly unregulated capitalism

I'm not contending otherwise, but merely pointing out the apparent difficulty in calling a party by its own name without provoking your token political junkie to give a lecture on the definition of communism / socialism / whatever.

In my experience these people are usually angry that their own political philosophy is being associated with authoritarianism.

Oh, I understand.

I'm generally opposed to any discussion of "isms", because no two persons view "isms" the same in a semantic sense.

You probably wouldn't like hermeneutics. Or even the "Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity" alluded to by Jon`C. But you should, or all I'll call you a useful idiot for the logical-patriarchal complex.

(Rapist.)

The last paragraph (a third down the page, lol) is pretty funny:

http://www.physics.nyu.edu/sokal/transgress_v2/transgress_v2_singlefile.html

I was the individual who was verbally attacked by the woman screaming to the point of hoarseness.

I'd never met her before in my life. She came out of no where, just because she say me talking to the police officer guarding the entrance. I doubt she even over-heard any of our conversation. The best she could tell was that I was male and happened to be there.

I love this C.T. West, guys. You look at him and what you see is a guy who's not afraid to take one for the team. He's a young, athletic protestor, and he's got a lot of heart. A real Gruden Grinder.

Welcome to Massassi, the Internet's #1 Source for Everything Jedi Knight! What is your interest in Star Wars gaming, friend?

A few of the protesters were tracked down online. Facebook, Twitter. Usual kind of hateful messages posted on the internet under the usual kind of incorrect assumption of anonymity.

The one in the video who said "these so-called men's rights groups are actually hate groups" had a twitter account. What did Sophia Guo use her Twitter account for?



I can't even get mad. What a loser.

Just stopping by to say hello.

CT, Did you observe any marijuana usage? I am trying to link it to violent behaviour because I know it causes it but I cant find any evidence.

MRA are a wild group, ranging from some well mannered and logical members to misogynist freaks.



Welcome to Massassi, friend. Interesting of you to find this board.

Sophia Guo purports to be a feminist. But I understand the confusion.

i completely read you wrong.. :/