taking all bets here!

I've recently (as in, within the last year or so) made the decision, as supported by family and friends and significant others and my dog, to pursue game design as a career. My portfolio consists of a year of graphic design classes, a semester of graphic design content (i teach people how to use illustrator and photoshop, i make club posters) for my current school. Unofficially, my portfolio consists of these things:

http://www.frictionalgames.com/forum/thread-6949.html
http://www.frictionalgames.com/forum/thread-15250.html
http://www.moddb.com/mods/deterioration
http://www.moddb.com/mods/standards-of-hell
http://www.moddb.com/members/ibanezgio961/images

I personally would be pursuing a career within a small company, preferably of my own creation, that makes horror/survival horror games, cuz that;s is my favorite genre and stuff, COULD YA TELL?

What do ya think? Am I chasing a pipe dream? Or do I have the talent for it?

I ask all of y'all because you folks are literally the very first people who got me even started down this game design path of life.

There is no talent; only work. You can do anything you want. Anyone who says you can or can't do it is BS - you need to decide for yourself.

That's not true; there's dead-end job markets and developing fields. The game market is a big industry, and it's only growing. My question isn't "will I be able to work hard enough to get my foot in the door?" because I'm the only one who can answer that, my question is whether or not you think that, given the material I have put before you, you would enjoy playing a game one day with my name in the credits. I want to be a deciding force in the development of at least one game, so what I want to know is if what I put forward is worth putting into the pool of games, or would it flounder?

[EDIT: I should be clear: I have already decided that this is what I want to focus on. Is this a wise decision, or should I sell out and go for something that's profitable, but not my passion?]

I wish you the best of luck!

My only advice would be to not peg yourself down to just that/those genres. One way you can help develop your skills is by challenging yourself in an area you are uncomfortable with. Sometimes, working on projects like that you can find a real knack for something you never knew you had.

Why do you care what anyone else thinks of your choice? It's your life, friend.

I think the big question is if you can make connections. Zero experience with game design myself, but I really think you need to seriously differentiate yourself from countless others. Entry-level game artist seems like a really frustrating job, under constant threat of being replaced.

If you have the time perhaps you should branch out more. It boils down if you really good at what you do. I mean, really good.

idk. I really can't stand survival horror games, so I wouldn't be able to give you a fair critique for your portfolio.

Instead I'm going to ignore your wishes and be real mean to you for a sec, ok?

You're never going to get a principal design job at an established company. Companies don't hire entry-level principal design, ever, and junior design jobs go to software engineers because at that level the most important part of the job is technical leadership.

You'll get offered $20,000 a year to do QA, easy. This isn't getting your foot in the door, it's getting your dick slammed in it. They'll use your passion and work ethic to con you into working 100 hours a week of uncompensated overtime with no career track and then lay you off because your jaw muscles weren't strong enough. And by the time you get laid off, all it'll have cost you is $40,000 in lost wages and two years worth of your free time.

It kinda sounds like you think "hard work => being noticed by game mans" and I really hope this post has disabused you of this notion. The game industry really brutalizes hard-working and passionate people. Unless you enter it with a clear business case (a rare and high demand skill, or an established history of designing high-profit games) you're going to get chewed up and spat out, guaranteed. It's not worth it.



Follow your greatest skill. Do what people are willing to pay you money to do, even if it means you have to make games in your free time.

**** yeah, I was hoping you would post here. I appreciate your input, because I know you know exactly what you're talking about, since you're somehow well-versed in all things ever thought up by man, ever. I am hearing that you think my hard work will lead to being picked up only long enough to be chewed up, with all talent I have being ground out by the workhorse that is corporate America, and then spat out with little recompense. Unfortunately, game design IS what my greatest skill is, and it's been noticed enough for my favorite teacher on campus to take me aside and offer a private class of sorts to me, wherein I am awarded credits toward graduation by creating my own class (syllabus, deadlines and all) for myself, creating a project to complete by the end of the semester. This may have given me false hope, seeing as hard work has a higher chance of being noticed in collegiate levels than in the "real world", so I need to prepare myself for a possibility of going unnoticed in the future. Is this what you are saying? Because half the battle is knowing, and if I understand the potential consequences of pursuing this as a career, then I may have an edge on the optimistic around me.

Zell, know though that ALL of corporate America is as Jon`C described. Don't be cynical. If that's what you want to do, give it a shot. Just have a backup plan, and be smart about it.

Professors care about (uncompensated) hard work because in their world that's the standard by which everyone is evaluated. In business it's totally different. In business the only thing anybody cares about is whether you will generate more income than you cost to employ (note: your employment cost >>> your compensation).

This is what I'm saying: you haven't shipped a successful commercial game, so you have no proof that the games you design will sell. It's a catch-22 but that's the way the world works. Established companies and investors aren't going to take the risk on you. The situation is different when you're talking about indie games, of course, but then you have to wear all the hats - engineering, technical art, and design - because professionals aren't going to invest their labour in an unproven designer, either.

I'm not talking about not being "noticed". That's the least of your problems. You're talking about breaking into the industry in the rarest, most political, and most contested career track. You'd honestly be more likely to become a rock star.


If you can't be dissuaded, I can at least give you some suggestions about your portfolio. I want to see more teamwork, especially technical leadership and writing (design documentation). I want to know if you can direct programmers, artists, and other designers. I want to know that you can work with a producer without fighting him or her. I want to see a commercial release, something like an iPhone game - even if it's not profitable, I want to be able to see what you consider a finished product and worth selling, how fun it is and what level of polish you consider enough. Learn the basics of Mudbox and 3D Studio Max. Learn C++ and software dev well enough that you can tell when a programmer is BSing you on his estimates.

There are a hundred million gamers on the internet who fancy themselves video game designers. This isn't enough to prove that you're worth the investment, but at least it would help you differentiate yourself as someone with some professional potential.

lol, they wish. Games are unique because game development is intrinsically rewarding. Game companies know this and they take advantage of it as much as they can. That's why they get away with the worst compensation and management in the entire software industry.

Who needs happy employees when you can fill the chairs with nerds at half the price? If you don't like it, you're free to quit - they'll find a replacement within a week and he'll even work for WoW timecards.

I second everything said thus far by the others, Zell. I know I didn't have the skill or the passion needed to continue in the gaming industry as a primary career, and it was a hard and indirectly required choice I had to make. I'm still making small efforts to make something of my own, likely a non-video game, on the side of my current new job that is far more secure.

Personally, without downloading and playing on my own, I can't say what I think of your game design. Regardless, I hope for the best for you. I advise just be careful over taking the required crazy risks to succeed - the industry is, in many way, the trenches.

I don't think you can do anything unless you release all the JK E1M1 JA remake files you made.

But seriously, I wish you the best of luck!

That's really all there is to say about it. Good luck!

Except not, because it's really not that simple for reasons already stated. It's not just "work hard and you'll be happy." More than likely Zell will become miserable personally and professionally should he choose to do game design as a full time job. I gave up on it years ago and find it much more interesting and rewarding to do as a hobby. I can work on anything I want that way.

Zell, Jon`C is pretty much right on the money about this. If you love design I would suggest you go into a design-related field. Like new media design, or film/video/animation if you want something more dynamic. You'll end up with a lot of very practical skills that will get you a good job (if you're a good new media designer with a really good portfolio you can get a job in any major city in the US with ease). They are much more tangible goals, will pay well and will even leave you with skills still more or less relevant to game design should you ever change your mind in the future.

I don't think anyone is inferring that there isn't a certain amount of risk associated with such a decision (or some sort of Ayn Randian boot-strappery)--I was merely, albeit light-heartedly, dismissing said factor. I don't dispute the fact that many prefer living a calculated & safer life, with minimal risk & maximum "success" potential. I merely disagree with this recipe for life. I think that he should follow his dream, despite the risk (so long as it's not excessive) & his naivety & if he should fail--so be it (at least he tried to do something that he enjoyed & didn't just settle for something that was safe). If we really want to minimize his risk, we'll direct him at another field entirely (not just at the safer segment within). I know half a dozen Full Sail graduates that didn't starve to death after they graduated & failed to make it in to the industry. Life goes on. I've changed careers 3 times in my life & recently moved to another country & essentially started all over again. I suppose that by most standards I'd be considered a failure but I've never been happier. Zell isn't an idiot--he knows he's chasing a dream. I say he should chase it & if he "fails", like most people do, he should learn & move on.

I certainly don't disagree with your advice about going in to something more dynamic, but then, that's what so many in the field are already doing. Even schools that specialize in game design these days don't have the tunnel vision that they once did.

never mind

Buckets and buckets of knowledge all over my face! Everything you guys have said has further confirmed what I feared (and is the main reason I made this thread), being that following this dream of mine is indeed a fool's errand, but might yield some good connections along the way, IF I am very lucky. I should plan on considering a related, but less competitive field to be my breadwinner, and potentially, if this works as a hobby of mine, be noticed by some small company (assuming I end up releasing something I work on commercially) and brought on board with them. I should put maybe half an egg in the game design basket in the meantime, however.

Jon'C, as for cooperation in my portfolio, I have failed to mention that I ran a team of people (non-profit, of course) to work on that "Standards of Hell" project, and had them put out material for me- the majority of work they did was voice work and custom models, I handled the map editing. Also, very recently, I was brought on board with a team in the Amnesia editing community calling themselves "Team Timorem", who is a collection of ~15 similar-minded folks in the community who had put out the most advanced, high-quality projects within the community. I was immediately offered to help out on a new project they're doing now, along with 4-5 others.

I do like Jon'C's suggestion of producing something commercially even if it's small like an Android/Iphone app.

Try not to get sucked into any of the big studios, they work their people like slaves.

I kind of have to agree with Mentat on this. Yeah, its probably highly unlikely that you will land a job with an established studio doing level design. And yeah maybe all you will have to show for it is being able to say you tried, but, screw it. If it's what you are passionate about and it is what you want to do then f***ing do it. While you very well may not make it even if you give it your best, you certainly wont if you never try.


...Unless you have kids. then ignore everything i just said.

I don't think wanting to design games for a living is a mistake, but I DO think it's a mistake for it to be his first line job opportunity. If he were to pursue work in another field of design, he'll be able to find a good job but work on games in his free time. If he decides he wants to do games for full time, he can work on making that transition. Certainly having design experience in a real job in addition to solid part time hobby work in games is going to get him a better head start. If nothing else it means he can wear more than one hat at a small company, making the risk of hiring him substantially lower. Sure, it's a lot of extra work doing it as a hobby, but still less than being worked to death in a dead end games job coming out of college. And better pay, too (even if you convert it to per-hour and include your hobby time as working hours).

okay, now i know you don't have a much of a reason to trust what i'm about to say. but just trust me for a second, okay?

if you want to make a successful video game, you have to learn the importance of novelty. novelty is the single most important driving factor in interesting people in a game. novelty is what makes people want to pursue more.

if you make a video game, and just include a hodgepodge of mechanics and elements from other games, with no spectacular enemies, weapons, or story.. you're gonna be a complete failure.

also, you have to realize: AI is still insanely simple for video games. Most 'complex AI' is just animations and voice acting, but the AI we use today isn't a whole lot better than what we could do in 1999-2000.

So what does this mean? It means that the novelty of most AI characters in any game you make will wear off fast. a crazy zombie is scary and fun the first time you kill it, but 20 times down it just becomes a chore. UNLESS if you can find a way to make each interaction unique.

a great way to add a good layer of novelty is through a recognizable and well fitting soundtrack. music takes much longer to get boring than chainsawing a group of zombies

amnesia was not only a great horror game, but a great game in general because it used the concept of novelty well. most people had never experienced that style of game before. but don't copy them, who wants to play amnesia 2.0? (well, alot of people think they do but if the 2nd amnesia is too much like the first one, all the positive reviews will be heavily blinded by nostalgia)

just remember that key rule: novelty = good. repetitiveness = bad.

No, it's not highly unlikely. It's completely impossible.

Yes, this is his only option. If you enter as engineering or technical/traditional art you will be given the opportunity to participate in the design process. If you're successful there (and shake enough hands) you have a shot at moving up to junior design. That said, art and engineering involve fairly rare skills that take a long time to develop and are very different careers from what Zell wants.

Er... this thread is more about career advice. I don't think Zell is really looking for game design tips.

Sorry, don't know how to play this video :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUf55a1Y1aQ&feature=youtu.be

Come to think of it, you might have actually said that you lost the files at some point...

... wait, this changes NOTHING! FILES! NAOW!

my answer is no.

small game companies probably aren't looking to bring in and elevate new grad hires, especially at a high level such as game design, though i can see a fortune 500 company like EA maaaybe doing something like that but probably only through their internship pipeline.

i don't see any professional experience in art and design or any technical experience and education. fiddling around making no-name mods doesn't really seem impressive to me. like others have said, try getting a junior position at a design firm if you really want to go into design (game or otherwise). that ain't gonna be no walk in the park either.

Yep. Check out some freelance sites (eg., Elance even) to get a feel for what smaller / indie studios are looking for. The few Amnesia levels would only impress those who'd have the time and the desire to play them. Get some freelance work done if you can, build up a portfolio, regularly check job postings at Gamasutra (again to have an idea of what people are looking for).

If you're more interested in working as a level designer only, get good at making levels for other games (horror mod for u3, why not), the bigger the audience the better -- granted, of course, that you'll be posting good work. Join high-profile modding teams. Try to win some awards. Make a portfolio website (again).

If you get good at level building, as it's the SOCIAL AGE and all that, you may want to try to put up a few tutorials / show people how you do what you do -- if you're perceived as an expert, half the battle's won, but you need to be an expert to win the other half. Hehe.

You won't be making much (or any) money, but you'll be getting experience and contacts along the way. In the meantime, get a job so that you don't starve to death while you're doing all this. If it's in a field that's even remotely related, you get bonus points.

Focusing on "level design" is something to be really careful about. Levels today require the skills of many, many people, and the level designer's (junior designer's) job is to coordinate the artists and programmers.

That's why they look for a BSc in Computer Science. You need to have that background in engineering and product management.

Duly noted. I'm taking a computer science course next semester, perhaps I can double major in it. I still have a year and a half of college, and 74 credits to make up.

That's very ambitious and I recommend talking to an advisor in computer science about making that decision.

Well, my previous semester was a joke, and I have limited classes to fill up the slots I need before I can graduate- I'm grasping at straws here, so having more classes to take would actually be a good thing.

I just meant that a CS major can be quite difficult. It's important to know what to expect before going into it, and an advisor is the best way to get that information.

With a minor you'd probably be able to stick mostly to the software engineering track, which talks more about people issues and software design. With a major you'll have to take a lot of theory, plus the mathematics prerequisites. The formal sciences are very different from what most people encounter and can be an unpleasant surprise.

I definitely don't want to discourage you from taking CS. I love it, and as far as I'm concerned the more the merrier. But at the same time, lots of people have a hard time with it. Intro theory courses are notorious weed out courses, with >50% attrition at most schools. So look into it, but make sure you talk to a CS advisor before doing anything.

Noted! Thanks for the advice, man

I can't speak to how or whether you should be trying to work in the games industry, and I have nothing useful to say about game design, but I can give some feedback on the environment work you posted.

Firstly, you need to put together a portfolio that spotlights your best stuff. Clicking through those links was weird--the first two images I saw were blurry and indistinct, and a whole lot more don't show a whole lot. That's okay for a big screenshot reel for a mod or something, but you want to have a collection of, say, 10 screenshots of your 5 best levels, and each one of those screenshots should be making me say "wow that's cool as h*ck." There's a couple here and there that are pretty nice, but they're lost in a sea of redundant and unclear ones.

Moving on--you definitely want to be able to show some range. Having a specialty is fine, but I don't want to hire a guy who I don't know will be able to handle whatever I need him to, and not get lost if I need him to work on a spaceships project or a Hello Kitty game or something. The key to artistic improvement is getting out of your comfort zone and staying there, so you'll be helping yourself anyway. Do a sunny nature scene, or a steampunk factory, or an office building. Or all of them. Get some diversity in there.

Lastly, before I get to specific crits, I'm unfortunately not really sure how much of this work is yours. All of the screenshots look, to my layman's eyes, like they could be from the same game. If they are, are you using the textures/models/etc that came with the game? If so, that's a problem, because as an environment artist you should be able to texture and do a certain amount of map modeling as needed to create your maps. It's possible you explained that in writing somewhere, but I just looked at the pictures because I'm an impatient professional with thirty other portfolios to go through (not really, but I am lazy and that IS how they will react). The other thing is that, with all your work obscured in shadow, it's often pretty difficult to, you know, see what's there. This sounds obvious, but I want to know will your maps still hold up if someone turns on the lights? If your boss needs you to do a brightly-lit area, will you be able to produce something to standard? If the hiring guy has to wonder stuff like this, he's going to assume the answer is "no, otherwise he would have shown otherwise in his portfolio." So that's another reason why you should be diversifying your projects.

Beyond that, a lot of the work looks quite nice, if kind of dated, like this: http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/21/20594/tristram9.jpg The worst screenshot I noticed was this one: http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/21/20594/tristram7.jpg - the red crystal things have misbehaving shaders that aren't being lightened by the fog the way they should be, and the building exterior looks criminally under-detailed, with no kind of trim or deliberate architecture to speak of.

Anyway yeah, like others have said, keep diversifying and pushing your capabilities, and definitely start picking out and collecting your best work, because a big heap of links to too many repetitive screenshots makes a poor impression. There's a lot of promise here, though. Keep it up!