Okay, but yeah, I have a thought. I still have no idea about that particular scene. But as a general phenomenon in culture...

I think the distastefulness might have something to do with the fact that conformity to progressive values and sensibilities are the single criteria according to which our culture has come to measure the value of most art. When you do that, art is no longer challenging you in any way, or posing resonating questions about human life, or death, or even just trying to entertain you. Instead it represents to you things that you already believe (or tells you that you should believe them). When it starts doing that, art becomes pretty vacuous. It becomes a way to identify yourself through art, precisely at the point where that art has little aesthetic value, but at the point where it's just a vehicle for a set of uncontroversial ideas.

My problem with TFA is that the movie seemed to keep going after it was over, as if there were multiple unrelated endings being tacked on. By the time they got to the "trench run" scene, they had me rolling my eyes and zoning out.

None of the feminist stuff bothered me, but I will say that Rey is too perfect to be a sympathetic character, and Finn was too clumsy and dumb.

All you beta ****s just don't understand; the females are taking over my nerd stuff that I feel should belong to me somehow! Why weren't they into some of the biggest pop culture phenomenona in history until now?

The First Order just seemed a little juvenile to me. And Finn is/was a stormtrooper so that explains clumsy and dumb.

Give him some credit, he made the choice and left. I liked that. I don't know if anyone remembers the the saberworks editing group but our main character was a storm trooper. I love those guys!

Actually, I thought Finn was one of the better characters introduced.

Man, no. Finn wrecked it with a lightsaber, and it's a weapon he's probably never even held before. He's only clumsy compared to a jedi.

Favorite character in EP7 by far.

I actually didn't think he was clumsy or dumb. It does go with the stormtrooper thing though.

I was the one who said it, and TBQH I only meant to contrast him to Rey.

To be quite frank, though, I don't remember the movie all that well.

Finn was fairly proficient with a lightsaber, yeah. I mean, given that he'd never used one before. He did get beat by a stormtrooper with riot gear, but he held his own against an injured Kylo Ren for about 30 seconds. Granted, he spends the entire time retreating and eventually gets maimed, but it shows guts and some fairly exceptional combat proficiency.

Sure, he's kind of a bumbling idiot, but he means well and manages to pull things off despite generally not having a clue what he's doing while assuring everyone that he definitely does. Also, has a cool jacket. He's a worthy successor to Han Solo.

I'm still not really sure why people dislike Rey so much. She's more or less what we expected Anakin to be like in Episode 1. She's unnaturally adept with the force, good-natured, but emotionally unstable. It's like there's a parallel or something... Mark my words: she's the next iteration of the chosen one. It would explain why she was sent away, and why Luke has that "Oh ****" look on his face when she shows up with his dad's lightsaber.

10:1 Finn is force sensitive. I noticed the otherwise dark theme played while he was defending himself had a twinkling in it was reminiscent of "hey it's the force" in other Williams tracks. The more I think about that movie, the more I want to see it again, but the more I realize Jon'C's point about it being made as a test movie sticks out. Everything was a half measure left open to multiple writing choices. I think they gave Finn the opening to be force sensitive.

I also totally hope he's gay with the pilot dude, but also it'd be nice if two dudes could be friends and touch eachother without having to ****, too >.>

Eversor: I get what you mean about representation overwhelming art, but I think it's deeper than that. I wish there were more disabled people in media, but not just hamfisted in. I want stories about the kinds of struggles and situations disabled people find themselves in. A film that leveraged "all disabled people are bad guys" in the opposite direction, where all able bodied people without disfigurements are villains might be an interesting on-the-nose conceit, but it's not actually addressing any of my experiences as a disabled person and ends up being in-response-to a contemporary issue. This might help push the culture towards understanding a more nuanced story that does tackle those issues, but it isn't going to be relevant 15 minutes after it's released, much less years later or to even most people now.

A good feminist story requires establishing the pressures of gender within the plot. Instead, when it's done in a story about space wizards, it's referencing social pressures outside of the movie. It'd work with Amadala trying to appeal to a male-dominated senate and could tie in ideas of authority and power politics to be more universal and approachable. There's no context to Rey saving Finn except that we've all seen movies that reposition them the other way. (The language of the shots suggests incredibly deliberately contrast to tradition) It's a meta-reference that can only detract from the film overall. It's like using other film names to describe the plot of a different film. It's referential in a film that's already riding heavy on reference. Makes for very little substance, as you said.

That suddenly gives a whole new meaning to the fact that Episode VIII starts at the moment where Episode VII ended (after the Crawler). This was confirmed by the director in his VIII promo video and at SW Celebration.

There's this dark theory that Luke stumbled upon her family and realized what they were, so he massacred them, wiped her mind and dropped her off at Jakku. Ben was an accomplice to all this, which is why he starts choking the Imperial officer and says "What girl?".

There are a billion fan theories, some will be better than the actual film.

TFA is definitely a rehash of ANH, but no so much in terms of story, as in every other scene referencing a classic ANH scene in some kind of way. There's so much nostalgia, but there's absolutely nothing new.

At least Lucas didn't try to completely rehash his old successes when he made the prequels. The prequels referenced the originals as well, but not continuously, and there was a lot of new and unexpected stuff in them.

And he is about ten years younger than Solo at the youngest we saw him in the movies. 100:1 Han is kind of a bumbling idiot in the inevitable garbage fire that will be the standalone movie. But Donald Glover is perfect casting for Lando, and we will get to see him grow up quick when Woody Harrellson's character introduces him to space weed.

It would make sense if Han is a bumbling idiot in the standalone movie because Han is a bumbling idiot in all Star Wars movies.

the problem with both TFA and The Last Jedi is that Im not in them

The aspect ratios aren't wide enough to fit you in

8k baby!

who played starkiller base, then?

Well he is confident about it or we don't see his uncertainty. I'm just trying to call the two inches of character development we will see in the new films, which will likely be driven by space weed in any case.

Oh he's definitely confident. He just screws everything up at least once before someone else eventually fixes it for him.

I think TFA has key scenes and minor plot details that will become more relevant in the next couple of films or change their meaning entirely. Things like the"who's the girl?" question that Maz throws at Han or the "a good question for another time" when Han asks where she got Luke's old lightsaber, jakku, Ben's past and probably several things in the force back vision.

This! A million times this!

The German title was revealed to be "Die letzten Jedi". So "Jedi" is plural.

Apparently similar with the French and Spanish ones too.

The Last Legos