Right now it is pretty clear anything I work on at my job would belong to the ceo as all of her employees in whichever company are paid through her parent company. Although the main IP I am most tempted to work on is currently held by my brother-in-laws multimedia company since I originally developed it for him. Though I'm not sure what the legal ramifications of working on it at my current job would be, but I'm going to withhold further progress until I quit this job at the end of this year or the beginning of next.

Should we inquire at the start of 2018?

Here's a hint. I have a goal of producing an issue for free comicbook day next year. I'll post a pdf onto the forum around then with an overview of the project.

Well, almost exactly a year later and I'm still at the crappy job. The difference is that I finally graduated a few weeks ago and I'm currently job hunting. My big burning question right now has to do with something pointed out earlier in the thread, and that is that under contract a company can own your creative work outside of your place of employment. What I want to know is: What would that kind of clause in a hiring contract look like? Are they common in most jobs in the US now? Help me Massassi! You're my only hope!

P.s. Some vibes for a better job would be much appreciated as well.

You'll be looking for some kind of intellectual property clause:

https://www.lawinsider.com/clause/intellectual-property-ownership

IANAL, and only a legal expert can confirm how your contract will be interpreted if you're ever taken to court.

Congrats!

You should hire a lawyer. You might not think this is a helpful answer, but it really is.

You are looking for IP assignment, invention assignment, or work-for-hire. It may look something like this but not necessarily. Sometimes it’s in a separate agreement, as in this example, but it’s often buried in the terms of a larger employment agreement. There is no standard structure; what you’d need to look for are the specific terms. Contracts can look very different depending on counsel and even how frequently the company needs to change one or the other agreement.

The meaning of the agreement also depends upon the intentions of the employer, their counsel, state law, and common law. For example, in California the terms of an IP assignment agreement are automatically limited to the IP created in the course of work or using your employers equipment. In other states, a similarly worded agreement would grant the employer unlimited rights to anything created as long as the contract is in effect. There is a lot of variability here and you need to do a lot of reading and learning to understand exactly what your employment agreement means.

That’s why I suggested hiring a lawyer a year ago. I wasn’t trying to waste your money. You are asking questions that only an attorney can reasonably answer.

Very common. There is a default state for copyright (work for hire) but it’s pretty limited and only applies in specific cases. Most employers aren’t gonna rely on automatic work for hire unless they... well, to be frank, unless they didn’t hire a lawyer to write your employment agreement.

I’ve never worked a job in either the US or Canada that didn’t have an IP assignment clause, even **** retail jobs when I was a teenager.

nah but I’ll wish you luck

Where's my free issue????

There were a lot of factors to create the free comic. The biggest was the fact I didn't own the IP. My previous job had hired me to develop the story, but when they discovered how unprofitable comics are the project was dropped.

Since I had invested so much time on it, I figured they would let me do a limited release, which I thought could have replenish their interest in continuing production. Just a month or two after my post about Free Comic Book Day, my wife and I found out we were having a baby, so I dropped everything to finish school so I could better provide for my family.

This March I legally obtained the IP and will be doing some further developments to the characters and story before I make plans to release anything.

Thank you Jon'C, and Reid for the insight. I'm still on the hunt, and both jobs I interviewed for would have likely been able to claim ownership of my work. It feels like a long shot, but do you think a pseudonym would protect me?

No, a pseudonym will not legally protect you. It may even make things worse because it demonstrates intent.

I've been doing some research and cant decide if a Sole Proprietorship or an LLC would be the most advantageous to me.

The intention being that I could pursue a day job that can provide an income and benefits to support my family, and have either a Sole Proprietorship or LLC legally protect my intellectual property from my day job. This is of course based on the assumption that a business will hire me while I have a side project.

I don't intend to grow any side project into an actual business, just as a legal protection, though I wonder if I run the risk on potentially paying a ton of taxes on what might just be a hobby with no return.

Go with an LLC. Those two "L"s can save your assets if your employer decides to go after you for pursuing side projects, especially if it is profitable for you.

LLC works in the other direction...

Phantom-Seraph, you need your employer to carve out an exemption for your personal projects. That is the only way you can do this. Or just hope your employer will never go after you.

Corporate liability limitation is intended to protect you from the company’s obligations, not to protect you from your own. It will probably make things worse for you in fact because you’re very obviously trying to pull some sovereign citizen magic word **** and judges really hate that kind of thing.

I must not be understanding his problem. If he wants to develop something on his own after work, it should be done under and belong to an LLC. In this way, if anyone tries to make a claim, they can only pursue the assets of the LLC, and not seraph's house or car or savings account.

[If he's doing **** on the clock or on company equipment or has a contract preventing moonlighting or competing, then yeah. No dice.]

Yeah, the issue is IP assignment agreements. Phantom-Seraph wants to use an LLC to selectively retain ownership and beneficial control of certain intellectual property which would otherwise be transferred to an employer under a blanket IP assignment agreement.

An LLC won't protect him because he's the one who signed and broke the employer's IP assignment agreement, not the LLC. You'd have to ask a lawyer if you want to know exactly how this would shake out (N.B. I am not one). I don't know which agreement would take primacy (if any), statutory damages for failure to perform an IP assignment, whether blanket assignment agreements are even legal in his state, etc.

I've said this like a bazillion times, but he needs to ask a lawyer about this.

Down, boy. I feel like your assuming I know as much about this subject as you do. The reason I keep reviving this thread is because I trust the input and knowledge of the members here, you especially.

I have a limited understanding of business bureaucracy and politics. For instance, I have no comprehension regarding your accusations. I thought the only thing I was obviously doing was trying to find a way to protect what I do in my free time.

Besides, this entire situation is theoretical. The reality of the situation is that my wife's maternity leave ends this week. She has a far better income and benefits. My current job, though flexible when I was a student, isn't conducive to the further development of my career. I put in my two weeks notice, and the plan is to take care of the baby while my wife is at work, and in the meantime I'll be updating my resume and portfolio so I can get a job that I can support my family with.

Currently I'm looking at a lot of unknowns. I have some time right now, I own an intellectual property I'd like to develop, and I have some other personal projects I want to pursue. While I look for a job I plan to put some time into these things I care about. My worry is that I'll get hired somewhere that will legally prohibit me to further develop these projects in my free time. So I'm simply trying to find a solution.

It was a joke:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement#Theories

I do not believe you think you are a sovereign citizen. This was a comedic exaggeration combined with the very real fact that judges can be very aggressive if they think someone's trying to pull a 'fast one'.

In other words: if you're worried about an employer coming after you for this IP, you really don't want to try doing this.

The solution is to develop your IP now as much as possible, then disclose it to your employer when you are hired. Your employment agreement will likely include a form for "prior works" or "prior inventions", and you should describe the IP there. If your employer does not have a standard form for this, either create one or ask them to create one, and make sure that it's signed. This way you have a signed written record that your IP existed prior to your employment and that your employer acknowledged that fact.

If you intend to continue developing the IP while you're employed, convince your employer to provide a written exemption to your IP assignment agreement to cover that work.

Also, I am not a lawyer. You should talk to one.

Yeah but talk to a good lawyer, not a low rent lawyer like Mike Mac. You want a good one like Perry Mason or Harvey Spector or Matlock.

Seriously, you should speak with a lawyer.

I'm just glad that even if Fate hadn't decided that I was only meant to achieve almost everything (TODOA, which is almost like todos = Spanish for everything) and nothing (Nihilum = Latin for nothing) - and not anything else - planning a FGR Butt Project while employed by the Finngov wouldn't give them the right to seize it for themselves. Hoo-haw!

Alas... anyone got 6 million dollars for me? Anyone? Spiral? Anyone?

I don't even know what you're talking about most of the time, FastGamerr.

I should probably learn what todoe is.

All I know is that I sure hope Spiral is living a cozy life with the millions of dollars he earned off a film based on his horror-themed JK level.

Thank you, Jon. That clears things up for me, and I'll speak to a lawyer.
*cue collective sigh of relief*