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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → FGR Attention Parade - JK or DX
12
FGR Attention Parade - JK or DX
2017-10-22, 7:30 AM #1
I did like Blade Runner 2049, but it also made me realize that the media is now filled up to brim with their 2049s and Westworlds and Arrival Interstellars and Jupiter's Ascending Oblivions and the classic franchises of Star Wars and Startracks and whatever.

In other words, it would no longer be sufficient enough for me to follow the footsteps of Spiral* and get a million dollars to realize my "original" sci-fi project - I'd actually have to get a time machine to go back to the year 1998 or something so I'd actually get some attention by being barely innovative. So, for the nth time, I have decided to forget about that idea already.

* = I wonder if I'm the only one who remembers that incident...?

And seeing as paying 2000 €/$ on assets for an actually modern-day-engine got me nowhere, I'm left with two choices:

Should I return to editing Jedi Knight or Deus Ex again? At this point, both of those games' audiences are deceased (for quite a long time, DX was still far more alive than JK ever was - and of course, it's still far more notable of a cult game than JK has ever been), but those are the only two things where I ever made a name/pseudonym for myself.

Should it be Jedi Knight...

[https://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/14/13826/TODOATCSP1.jpg]

... or Deus Ex?

[https://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/16/15689/DXNBeta_Station.jpg]

Also, I didn't realize that this thread was basically a rehash of one I made in July. For this, I'm actually sorry, since for some odd reason that thread's existence was the sort of ultra-irrelevant kind that even I didn't happen to remember!

(Here's an ultra-irrelevant kind of a thing that I regrettably do remember: Remember Macro Roshuma and that one smiley of his, which was probably taken from someplace else, and how it had all those visible extra pixels surrounding the smiley character so it looked really really badly ripped off?)
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2017-10-22, 7:49 AM #2
what mod is that in the first screenshot?
I had a blog. It sucked.
2017-10-22, 7:51 AM #3
Mattias Welander's Dark Forces 3D
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2017-10-22, 8:21 AM #4
Use those UE4 assets and make somethin origy
2017-10-22, 8:36 AM #5
Create your own UE4 assets and make something original.
2017-10-22, 9:14 AM #6
Create your own UE4 and make some assets
I had a blog. It sucked.
2017-10-22, 9:15 AM #7
One thing I disliked most about UE4 was the severe/near-absolute lack of written tutorials.

By the time the mumbling guy with the low-grade microphone (obv. with severe hissing, microphone humming, someone coughing, someone's coffin, someone sneezing in the background etc.) finishes saying "Press the button on the lower right to make a static mesh*", I could have just read that sentence from a written tutorial and clicked a few hundred static meshes into existence already.

* = Or, rather "Press the button, after liking this video and subscribing to my channel, on the lower right - much like the liking and subscribing can be done from the buttons on the lower left side under this video - to make a static mesh, and did I mention the liking and subscribing?"
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2017-10-22, 9:18 AM #8
But this might be it. 2017 might actually turn out to be the end of FGR "creativity".

Maybe this death will actually* stick!

* = Keeping in mind how I unfamously "retired from game editing" with DXN in 2013, and how you can search for every year after 2013 from that page...
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2017-10-22, 9:54 AM #9
Originally posted by Nikumubeki:
One thing I disliked most about UE4 was the severe/near-absolute lack of written tutorials.

By the time the mumbling guy with the low-grade microphone (obv. with severe hissing, microphone humming, someone coughing, someone's coffin, someone sneezing in the background etc.) finishes saying "Press the button on the lower right to make a static mesh*", I could have just read that sentence from a written tutorial and clicked a few hundred static meshes into existence already.

* = Or, rather "Press the button, after liking this video and subscribing to my channel, on the lower right - much like the liking and subscribing can be done from the buttons on the lower left side under this video - to make a static mesh, and did I mention the liking and subscribing?"


The official UE4 tutorial wasn't good?
2017-10-22, 10:04 AM #10
Most of their written "tutorials" are more like tech manuals (like JKSpecs), and for that matter, for quite old versions of the engine. The cinematic matinee tutorial, for example, is actually somewhat extensive.... for a tool that had been deprecated ages ago.

Main point: No UE4.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2017-10-22, 10:40 AM #11
Lots of people have figured it out. To be fair, I’m not one of them. UE4 and Unity were both obtrusive enough to me that it would take me less time to write my own engine than get either of them to do exactly what I want. I’m just saying, everybody else must have learned it somewhere.
2017-10-22, 11:32 AM #12
I refuse to enable your not learning UE4 by voting in this poll 8I
2017-10-22, 12:08 PM #13
Just make it mac compatible plz
former entrepreneur
2017-10-22, 2:35 PM #14
Originally posted by Nikumubeki:
Most of their written "tutorials" are more like tech manuals (like JKSpecs), and for that matter, for quite old versions of the engine. The cinematic matinee tutorial, for example, is actually somewhat extensive.... for a tool that had been deprecated ages ago.

Main point: No UE4.

I used to really hate video tutorials, and the ones w/a lot of irrelevant chatter can be really frustrating. But imo there are good points--I find I internalize stuff better when I'm following on at a slower pace, and when they inevitably forget to explain something critical I can fill in the details by watching them do it (unlike text tutorials where you're pretty much SOL unless you can find someone to explain it to you). So if you can find a way to stomach videos, the official and unofficial material for UE4 is light years ahead of anything that ever existed for JK or even Source:

Official Stuff:
General Introductory
Sequencer (replaces Cinematic tool)
Third person game walkthrough
The Unreal Wiki isn't much for tutorials, but it still functions pretty well as a general reference bible.

Unofficial Stuff:
Matthew Wadstein (great, concise general reference)
Tesla Dev (misc tutorials)
Zoombapup (talks very slowly but by FAR the best comprehensive AI tutorial I've found)

The Official Forums and Unreal Engine Reddit are also very active and helpful.

Obviously it's up to you--and I guess it depends a lot on what you want to get out of this. But if you have a long-term/serious interest in game development (or making stuff that gets more than 2-digit hitcounts), I think avoiding UE4 (or Unity) bc they take time and patience to learn would be a huge mistake.

Getting off my soapbox now :v:
2017-10-22, 4:22 PM #15
You probably shouldn’t spend any more money in asset stores though. They are meant to be like a studio backlot, filling in small pieces that you don’t have time to do yourself. If you can’t modify those assets to suit your game, or create original artwork up to the same standard, your game won’t look very good.

There’s a market for games with PlayStation graphics, but nobody wants to play a AAA-lookalike asset flip.
2017-10-22, 5:09 PM #16
Sorry if that sounded discouraging. I personally consider it a very positive thing. It takes a long time to learn how to create AAA quality assets, but what really matters in practice is consistency, and that’s within the reach of any developer with a pair of eyes and good taste.
2017-10-22, 11:06 PM #17
Originally posted by Jon`C:
You probably shouldn’t spend any more money in asset stores though. They are meant to be like a studio backlot, filling in small pieces that you don’t have time to do yourself.


Yeah, this lesson is now a part of the FGR Continuity.



One of the many reasons why I didn't bother learning to edit any new games (especially after DXN was finished) was because in order to make even a simple level in a modern game engine, you'd have to be a top-notch 3D modeller, texture artist and a programmer - all in one. And that's been the situation for many years. After discovering the UE4 Marketplace last year, I basically/foolishly thought "hey, now the time when I'd have to know any of those things (aside from programming) is over! time to buy some three dees!".

*sigh*

The ultimate lesson of my costly UE4 waltz was that at no point had anything actually changed: to edit a non-ancient video game, you have to be a top-notch 3D modeller, texture artist and a programmer to get anything done.

Alas, it's over. Finito.

Or what the Norwegians call fi-ni-tos.

In any case, due to Zloc referring to a JK mod in his post, I've got the answer to my question.

But seriously, no one else remembers Spiral's claim of "I made a scary JK level and now I'm being offered $1 million dollars to make a movie out of it"?
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2017-10-23, 6:08 AM #18
It sounds familiar, but I thought his stuff was inspired by a movie rather than him being "offered money" to turn it into a film. I can't even remember what his project was called now
I had a blog. It sucked.
2017-10-23, 6:53 AM #19
Yeah, I remember Spiral's movie deal BS. I'm sure plenty others do too.

This thread is v. interesting. I'd like to encourage you to keep at it with UE4 (or equivalent) but I'm not plugged into the scene enough to be able to refute your thoughts about the need for a very broad skill set... I'm hoping Thrawn has some thoughts on that, or Jon`C does.
2017-10-23, 10:02 AM #20
Originally posted by saberopus:
This thread is v. interesting. I'd like to encourage you to keep at it with UE4 (or equivalent) but I'm not plugged into the scene enough to be able to refute your thoughts about the need for a very broad skill set... I'm hoping Thrawn has some thoughts on that, or Jon`C does.


I think it's...partially true.

Originally posted by Jon`C:
There’s a market for games with PlayStation graphics, but nobody wants to play a AAA-lookalike asset flip.


Jon`C is on point here (PUBG is mostly flipped assets and is the biggest game on Steam right now, but it's kind of an outlier and also looks like ****). I think the utility of "Sci fi packs" etc. on the asset store is questionable because they all look really, really generic. By design, since they're meant to slot into a project unobtrusively. Also, buying AAA assets won't give you a AAA "look" because ~80% of a game's prettiness comes from environment and lighting artists who assemble those pieces into attractive compositions.

The best thing to do IMO is to just work on building the actual game mechanics. The original assets for my current game (such as it is) have been three tileable textures and a crate for months while I've been working on weapons, movement, inventory, and AI. I only just modeled a gun because I have weapons functionality that requires actual animations instead of the cube-gun I've been using. For art, low-res programmer art is fine, or you could even lift sounds, models and textures from your previous mods--why not grab all those Star Wars TODOA assets?
2017-10-23, 10:10 AM #21
Originally posted by 'Thrawn[numbarz:
;1206164']or you could even lift sounds, models and textures from your previous mods--why not grab all those Star Wars TODOA assets?


And have to learn the purpose of specular and diffuse texture maps in the process? Nice try, mister!

;O

Originally posted by 'Thrawn[numbarz:
;1206164']Also, buying AAA assets


Funny thing, though, is that maybe the main reason why I stopped messing around in UE4 for good wasn't even because of "Oh no, my creative suds have not been soothed!" or anything like that, but because apparently parts of the UE4 marketplace were hacked and some of the users' address/payment details might have been leaked, and Epic made no official announcement about any of this (I accidentally read about it on the UE4 forums maybe a few weeks later). Not that I got compromised (to my knowledge), but it was still kind of a major letdown (I think I changed my address to The White House or something, not that it'd have made any difference if the stuff got leaked in the first place).

... So even I can also recommend not using the UE4 marketplace! Oh well.

Also, it might make more sense the assume that TODOA carries more "Massassi weight" than DXN does (since TODOA is for JK and Massassi started as a JK website), but it's actually the other way around.

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Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2017-10-23, 10:24 AM #22
Originally posted by Nikumubeki:
And have to learn the purpose of specular and diffuse texture maps in the process? Nice try, mister!

;O


"Diffuse" is the color map! Specular is mostly outdated but if you're going for 2000s style graphics you can skip it and just feed a 0 value into the specular for your materials.
2017-10-28, 11:39 AM #23
Originally posted by Nikumubeki:
I did like Blade Runner 2049, but it also made me realize that the media is now filled up to brim with their Westworlds


Also, they stole my f***ing logo!

WW:


FGR:


Especially the one from DXN installer's header!



Goddammit!
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2017-10-28, 11:57 AM #24
feeger is a dirty plagiarist who stole the dxn logo from ww, ban him
I had a blog. It sucked.
2017-10-28, 12:00 PM #25
I agree, but at least I'm not planning a rink musical for a dishonorable gaming corporation! yet
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2017-10-30, 10:09 AM #26
Then again, if someone points me to some great UE4 lightsabers (and Star Wars models), I guess I could whip up a TODOA 6 TECH DEMO for this base https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/close-combat-swordsman
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2017-10-30, 1:43 PM #27
I believe you are a talented enough developer to figure out lightsabers without spending money.
2017-10-30, 2:24 PM #28
:)

2017-10-30, 11:54 PM #29
On a second thought, I'd also have to figure out how to implement saber marks on walls and all...s. Boh!

It's been a pleasure, gentlemen, but I think I'm gonna have to check my archives if I have some Duke Nukem 3D/Shadow Warrior projects to finish.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2017-10-31, 6:55 AM #30
-_____-
2017-10-31, 10:21 AM #31
Originally posted by Nikumubeki:
On a second thought, I'd also have to figure out how to implement saber marks on walls and all...s. Boh!


Also wouldn't be that hard :v:
2017-11-03, 9:47 AM #32
https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/multiplayer-car-racing-game

Huh, I guess there's still hope for TODOA RACER.

.

Yeah.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2017-11-03, 2:14 PM #33
I swear to god if you buy one more ****ing marketplace asset
2017-11-03, 2:34 PM #34
If only you had warned me about that before I started any of it! https://forums.massassi.net/vb3/showthread.php?67730-The-Last-FGR-Project&p=1195545&viewfull=1#post1195545
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2017-11-03, 4:49 PM #35
Why don't you give up this modding and just make environments for the cartoons I am going to make in UE4? They're about a space witch and a cross dressing wizard who gets killed and turned into a fungus that lives in a greyhound. Lots of landscapes and destroyed ****. Not really up your alley at all but there will be a few Zeppelins so I think you might dig it.
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2017-11-03, 4:55 PM #36
Originally posted by Nikumubeki:
If only you had warned me about that before I started any of it! https://forums.massassi.net/vb3/showthread.php?67730-The-Last-FGR-Project&p=1195545&viewfull=1#post1195545


Originally posted by 'Thrawn[numbarz:
;1195557']That said, it's worth diving all the way into Blueprint--it's all pretty easy to pick up and once you're familiar with the basics it shouldn't be too hard to hook different ones together.


Let the record show... :v:
2017-11-04, 1:14 AM #37
Oh, I know. I still thought I could make it.

Alas.

Originally posted by Spook:
Why don't you give up this modding


Well, disregarding this thread, technically I'm still dead.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2017-11-04, 8:13 AM #38
Originally posted by 'Thrawn[numbarz:
;1206556']I swear to god if you buy one more ****ing marketplace asset


Then again, possibly the only reason I haven't bought anything from there in months is because at one point some UE4.com accounts had apparently been compromised, and Epic made no announcement or e-mail notification about it (e.g. "whoops lol change ur e-miles") at any point. In fact, I only found that thread (and thus became aware of the issue) like 2 weeks later. So after changing my address to Arlington, VA (IIRC), I haven't bought anything off the site.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2017-11-04, 11:48 AM #39
Originally posted by Nikumubeki:
Oh, I know. I still thought I could make it.

Alas.



Well, disregarding this thread, technically I'm still dead.


Jim Morrison is on my writing team and he has been dead since the early 70s so that's no excuse.
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2017-11-04, 11:56 AM #40
Well, Spook, if you need any backdrops from these arsets, lemme know

Code: 
PolyPixel Freebie Pack
Weapon Component Update3
Scan FX and 2 others
DoN's 3D Pathfinding for Flying AI
- SciFi 'Populate' Pack -
Infinity Blade: Effects
Blueprints
Vehicle Game
Shooter Game
Modular SciFi: Engineer Hallways
Old Town
HoloVfx 01 and 3 others
Substance Atlantis
Open World Demo Collection
Retro Gaming Mini Pack
Forgotten Hotel
Third Person Shooter Kit
Explosions Builder
Factory District
Industrial Area Hangar
Old Streetlights Pack
Warehouse Equipment
Scout Spaceship and FXs
Ocean Floor Environment
Military Props Pack
Modular Building Set
Urban Trash Pack Vol 1.
Industry Props Pack 4
Industry Props Pack 5
Industrial City
Projectiles Pack
Infinity Blade: Fire Lands
Scifi Hallway
Infinity Blade: Ice Lands
Infinity Blade: Grass Lands
Dynamic Plane Deformation Blueprint with Snow Demo
SuperGenius Weather FX
Infiltrator Demo
Matinee
Research Center
Modular SciFi Command Center
Generic Shooter
Modular SciFi Hallways
Polar Sci-Fi Facility
Enforcer Rig
Snowy Mountains Landscape v2.0
Modular SciFi: Materials & Decals
Spaceship Interior Environment Set
Buddhist Monastery Environment
SciFi Doors Pack Vol1
Modular SciFi: Interiors
Modular SciFi: Props I
Forgotten Alley
Cyberpunk Alley Storefronts Pack
Mothership Service Rooms
Modular Sci-Fi Hospital
- SciFi 'Props' Pack -
Fantastic Weapons Pack 1
Animation Starter Pack
Side Scroller Shooter Kit
Unreal Engine


I can't promise I'll deliver, but they're there regardless.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
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