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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Project Drawdown: the most comprehensive plan ever proposed to reverse global warming
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Project Drawdown: the most comprehensive plan ever proposed to reverse global warming
2019-03-29, 1:19 PM #41
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
And over on Fox News, it would be all about how cancer isn't actually a disease at all, but a conspiracy of doctors on behalf of drug companies to profit off of the terminally ill.


Actually, and this isn't meant in any way to be a defense of Fox News, but that would be more likely on MSNBC. I mean, the anti-drug company thing is more on the left, isn't it?
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2019-03-29, 1:35 PM #42
MSNBC if you take the example literally, Fox News by the analogy with climate change denial I was going for. But yeah, you're going to find anti-science attitudes all over the electorate.

The difference with climate change denial on Fox News, of course, is that the anti-science propaganda has a corporate sponsor (unless you count Gwyneth Paltrow).
2019-03-29, 4:47 PM #43
But let's be honest, "Climate Change" is really just the lefts preferred political boogeyman. It's just an excuse to enact the sorts of things they always want to enact because if we don't we're all going to die.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2019-03-29, 5:09 PM #44
Serious attempts to reduce global contribution to atmospheric CO2 are going to need an international treaty, right? But what's really amusing to me is that Donald Trump's decision to withdraw from the Paris Agreements might not have been the detrimental blow to the cause of mitigating the coming disaster, because of the (apparent) flaws with the treaty itself.

At any rate, you're not fooling anyone if you want us to believe that you'd actually be on board with a good international treaty that addresses the real problem of incentivizing CO2 reduction / punishing CO2 emission (rather than making the discussion about some pork barrel project you don't like).

I mean, until the Republicans want to propose (lmao) a "pork"-free approach to climate change with teeth rather than the gimmicks / promise of green jobs they seemingly so oppose... you probably shouldn't be pointing fingers at Democrats!
2019-03-29, 5:24 PM #45
Originally posted by Wookie06:
But let's be honest, "Climate Change" is really just the lefts preferred political boogeyman. It's just an excuse to enact the sorts of things they always want to enact because if we don't we're all going to die.


What does the left always want to enact?
2019-03-29, 5:28 PM #46
It’s cute how liberals and conservatives are always obsessed with using market mechanisms in order to achieve their odious antihuman political projects, but Pigovian taxes are too extreme and “leftist”


Maybe it’s time you folks stop pretending that you’re all not just trying to fatten your parasites
2019-03-29, 5:47 PM #47
This is pretty much their (conservatives') worldview on this topic.

(I guarantee you that Wookie laughs to himself when he watches this video)
2019-03-29, 5:47 PM #48
Originally posted by Jon`C:
It’s cute how liberals and conservatives are always obsessed with using market mechanisms in order to achieve their odious antihuman political projects, but Pigovian taxes are too extreme and “leftist”


Maybe it’s time you folks stop pretending that you’re all not just trying to fatten your parasites


In my experience, people on the right downplay or literally do not believe in externalities.
2019-03-29, 5:58 PM #49
Just like Satan put fossils in the ground to trick us, he also instructed liberal professors to invent the idea of externalities.
2019-03-30, 7:37 AM #50
Originally posted by Jon`C:
What does the left always want to enact?


Subsides to rent seeking "green" businesses in their consultancies?
2019-03-30, 7:55 AM #51
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
Subsides to rent seeking "green" businesses in their consultancies?


see my speculative response above

Originally posted by Jon`C:
It’s cute how liberals and conservatives are always obsessed with using market mechanisms in order to achieve their odious antihuman political projects, but Pigovian taxes are too extreme and “leftist”


Maybe it’s time you folks stop pretending that you’re all not just trying to fatten your parasites
2019-03-31, 10:57 AM #52
Originally posted by Jon`C:
What does the left always want to enact?


Just the usual fauxialist fare that generally promises health, wealth, and happiness to all and all we have to do is save the planet (from the right) to get it. And what is this crap about externalities? Like there aren't externalities to "environmental" policies.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2019-03-31, 12:10 PM #53
Originally posted by Wookie06:
Just the usual fauxialist fare that generally promises health, wealth, and happiness to all and all we have to do is save the planet (from the right) to get it. And what is this crap about externalities? Like there aren't externalities to "environmental" policies.


Like what?
2019-03-31, 12:57 PM #54
I guess a couple of things that come to mind are excessive fatal car accidents when car manufacturers had to meet CAFE standards and preventable deaths due to the questionable banning of DDT.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2019-03-31, 12:59 PM #55
Originally posted by Wookie06:
I guess a couple of things that come to mind are excessive fatal car accidents when car manufacturers had to meet CAFE standards
Like which car accidents?

Quote:
and preventable deaths due to the questionable banning of DDT.
How many?
2019-03-31, 1:07 PM #56
Ranting about Rachel Carson and the regulatory repercussions of the publication of her book, Silent Spring, is a popular pastime among conservative talk radio hosts (I heard Mark Levin doing it circa 2009), as a way of discrediting the environmental movement in general.

(I also heard Rush Limbaugh, around that time, bloviating that the greatest greenhouse gas is water vapor, thus discrediting all of climate science.)
2019-03-31, 1:27 PM #57
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Like which car accidents?


Mostly just the ones where the cars got squished.

Quote:
How many?


Quite a few but most of them were in Africa so nobody cared.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2019-03-31, 1:37 PM #58
lol, checkmate: if you guys care at all about Africans, you should definitely be paying attention to climate change.
2019-03-31, 1:40 PM #59
Originally posted by Wookie06:
Mostly just the ones where the cars got squished.
Hmm interesting, how many more people do you think died because their cars got squished vs people who died because their rigid cars transmitted the forces of accidents directly into their skeletons?

Quote:
Quite a few but most of them were in Africa so nobody cared.
oh ok
2019-03-31, 1:48 PM #60
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
lol, checkmate: if you guys care at all about Africans, you should definitely be paying attention to climate change.


But HOW much more are we going to have to sacrifice? A fragile bluray disc can barely survive a trip to my home despite being lovingly hand carried from tens, hundreds, or even thousands of miles while cocooned in a plethora of packing materials because they've stripped all the structural plastic from the case and for what? To save a few people from global warming, LITERALLY thrusting us back to the dark ages?
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2019-03-31, 1:53 PM #61
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Hmm interesting, how many more people do you think died because their cars got squished vs people who died because their rigid cars transmitted the forces of accidents directly into their skeletons?


If I made that argument, you would destroy it. Surely if there had been any sort of push to meet some sort of, I don't know, collision safety standards, the engineers might have approached the challenge in a different manner. Bah, hypothetical anyway, I guess we'll never know.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2019-03-31, 2:06 PM #62
Originally posted by Wookie06:
But HOW much more are we going to have to sacrifice? A fragile bluray disc can barely survive a trip to my home despite being lovingly hand carried from tens, hundreds, or even thousands of miles while cocooned in a plethora of packing materials because they've stripped all the structural plastic from the case and for what? To save a few people from global warming, LITERALLY thrusting us back to the dark ages?


Preventing global warming is easy and doesn’t require individual sacrifice. It just means impoverishing a handful of oligarchs who finance their amoral lifestyles from massive world-destroying pollution.

Which is why it hasn’t happened.
2019-03-31, 2:14 PM #63
But hey maybe I’m just crazy, I can’t think of any other time our western liberal democracies have inconvenienced millions of people to cover up deliberate inaction on an issue that benefits a few rich dudes.
2019-03-31, 2:19 PM #64
I wonder what it’s like having a brain stuffed full of reasons why it’s impossible to not burn oil, but also not being capable of asking how my brain got that way
2019-03-31, 2:30 PM #65
I wouldn't know.

See what I did there?
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2019-03-31, 2:55 PM #66
Yes
2019-03-31, 3:09 PM #67
lol
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2019-03-31, 3:10 PM #68
never go full retard

2019-03-31, 5:10 PM #69
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Preventing global warming is easy and doesn’t require individual sacrifice. It just means impoverishing a handful of oligarchs who finance their amoral lifestyles from massive world-destroying pollution.

Which is why it hasn’t happened.


That's not true. We could probably eliminate grid based emissions by switching to nuclear, but that is more of a political issue than a market one. The issue is that converting our transportation infrastructure to a carbon neutral technology is going to be very hard. It's actually going to be even worse with a more even distribution of wealth.
2019-03-31, 8:11 PM #70
Originally posted by Wookie06:
Quite a few but most of them were in Africa so nobody cared.


When Bangladesh is underwater and you're still doing this bit, I don't imagine you'll appreciate the irony.
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2019-03-31, 8:12 PM #71
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
never go full retard



IDGI. Mexico, America, and, what, Canada?
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2019-03-31, 8:24 PM #72
nevermind...
2019-03-31, 9:37 PM #73
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
That's not true. We could probably eliminate grid based emissions by switching to nuclear, but that is more of a political issue than a market one. The issue is that converting our transportation infrastructure to a carbon neutral technology is going to be very hard. It's actually going to be even worse with a more even distribution of wealth.


Ignores the fact that the hard part of transportation to convert to carbon neutral, personal transportation, is a relatively tiny share compared to commercial transport and retail distribution. So you don’t need to convert everybody to electric cars. You need to get retailers back on hub and spoke with local inventory management instead of point to point just in time delivery, and you need to build rail. And by you, I mean your government, because there are no market forces strong enough to make people do this voluntarily.
2019-03-31, 9:51 PM #74
So you need to punish people?
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2019-03-31, 9:55 PM #75
Pretty funny just how Orwellian conservative language is, when you think about it.

As a public service, I will provide the English translation: "punish people" = "regulate corporations". There! I just reversed decades of brainwashing for you. Wasn't so hard now!
2019-03-31, 9:57 PM #76
Well, the market forces aren't strong enough but the government is. According to Jon, that is.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2019-03-31, 9:57 PM #77
Yes... and?
2019-03-31, 9:59 PM #78
Is this kind of like how the IRS sends a SWAT team to "punish" me for deciding all on my own that I won't be paying taxes? Or in libertarian ideology, it was the original taxation that was the act of aggression, right?
2019-03-31, 10:01 PM #79
At any rate, Steve Martin had a sense of humor about it, without needing to resort to a militia-style Mexican standoff with the feds....
2019-03-31, 10:02 PM #80
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
Yes... and?


Oh, right, they were going to be punished through either method so what I should have said is "So you need to punish people harder?" Thanks for the thought provoking posts.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

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