Hi!
I made a small JO Modification that makes the Ugnaut sound like an Ugnaut. Of course, this thing contains sounds from JK. The only place I could find Ugnaut sounds. I tried to submit it to Massassi but was denied because of LEC copyright. But where's the problem in that? It is from one Star Wars Jedi Knight to another, isn't it? Or is it because one was made by LEC the other Raven Software? But if JK is Copyrighted, then what business does Raven have making a sequel. What business do we have making our own versions of sequels?
But, if Raven bought copyrights to use these things, then what happened to the Ugnaut sounds? Reason I made this Mod was because I didn't like an Ugnaut going "Muhuhahahahaha!" every time I pressed X (taunt).

And besides, if Lucas realy cared, Brooks wouldn't have the cash to make movies after SpaceBalls! Any comedy company that published a movie/episode with a Lightsaber or a guy with a dark helmet would be out of business!

Anyway, main reason for this topic is why can't I take something from one Star Wars game and put it in where it's missing.

/Edward


[This message has been edited by Edward (edited January 11, 2004).]

it's in the legal part of your install, you know that part you agree to? it goes something like, you cannot take stuff from this game AT ALL and put it in another game UNLESS you are given legal permission by the copywrite holder

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" You killed me. That wasn't very nice."
Noble Gases

It's best to simply make your own Ugnaught sounds with your mouth, a microphone, and Goldwave.

You might wanna try Jawa, Wookie, Hutt, Tusken, and The Cheat while you're at it. Then you can realese an "Impressions of Star Wars Sound Effects" Pack.

/edit to change "microwave" to "microphone". Makes more sense now.
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"Your entire base belongs to us."

"It would be highly appreciated if someone would set the bomb up for us"

[This message has been edited by Janitor Bob (edited January 11, 2004).]

You cannot take copyrighted material from one game and use it in another, even if they are both Star Wars games. Raven has a license to use the Star Wars name and certain aspects of it to create their games. They are granted these abilities by contract. They DO NOT have the rights to any other star wars material and neither do the level editors/mod makers.

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Have Lightsaber Will Travel JK Editing tips, troubleshooting information, resources and more.
www.swgalaxies.net For all your Star Wars Galaxies needs
The Massassi A SW Galaxies Player Association

Seems to me like Massassi should take no stand on the issue. I sincerely doubt LEC would take action against a level editior freely releasing a level using material true to the spirit of Star Wars. Personally I always thought those clauses in the install were extremely anal and unnecessary. As long as levels or mods are not disparaging to the Star Wars universe editors should be able to use all the material at their disposal.

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former TACC outcast

[This message has been edited by Wookie06 (edited January 11, 2004).]

It might be more logical, but it was better overall without the edit.

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Shut up. I'm GOING to do this whether you like it or not.

Been reading the README of JK. and I found some interesting stuff...

If I get this right, then our levels shouldn't have any of the sounds that came with this game. If I'm missing the point and it means that you may use the sounds that came with the game but not from anywhere else like the movies or games before or after this, then bad me. *Slaps his face across the room*
But, then... Wouldn't that mean... The Darkest Thing, shouldn't have been added? Isn't Darth Vader's hissing breath Copyrighted? Isn't his picture Copyrighted? And my Empire's Revenge 2? It had the Canti... Wait... No... That's not from LEC's movies. It was a MIDI file that I chopped up. And there are places where they've used the intro music and the Imperial March. How did they get let in if you guys are so stricked about Copyright?

/Edward


[This message has been edited by Edward (edited January 11, 2004).]

You misunderstand what it means. When you make a level, you can use any of the sound effects, you just can't include any of the sound effects in your gob. Which isnt a big deal, because anyone who has JK has another copy of the sound effects that resides locally on their computer.

Most of the stuff you're talking about doesnt come from other video/computer games, which is why there isnt as big a concern over it. See, video game developers are worried that someone could port a game from one engine to another engine, and make it available for free download. As a result, anyone with the second game engine could essentially obtain the first game for free. This is why its illegal to port MotS stuff to JK, because you could essentially copy everything over and make MotS available for JK owners for free. However you can port JK stuff to MotS, because in order you own MotS you must already own JK first.

The DFTC mod for JA is different. Rather than copying things directly from DF to JA, they are remaking everything from scratch. Every texture, every sound file, every level. And they aren't making things exactly the same. They are embellishing in some areas, adding new touches here and there.

Case in point:





Looks almost nothing like the original.

People would be hard pressed to recreate the movies exactly using a game engine. Its almost impossible. And when people include songs and such, most of the time its off the JK CD which everyone already has the songs for anyways. Other times, they dont include the entire song so it isnt as big of a deal.

General rule to follow: If you arent porting from JK to MotS, its a bad idea to copy files from one game for use in another.

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You underestimate the power of the Dark Side...

DSettahr's Homepage

[This message has been edited by DSettahr (edited January 11, 2004).]

Edward you do know you cant evan take material from mots and add it in to your jk level. Because people who have jk may not have mots. Thats how strong copywriting is so you definatly cant take sounds from jk and put it in jo. Also dont try get the darkest thing deleted that level owned.

The guy above me posted literaly 2 seconds before me and he stated the same stuff as me so I look like im copying.[/edit]

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Nightfire Mod

[This message has been edited by a_person (edited January 11, 2004).]

I see... Well, would it matter if I posted the Mod here in the forums? Or should I just leave it on my homepage?

I don't suppose that Hethfilms will be resieving a suppina from Raven for using their sounds in their (and I quote) Various small videos for testing different visual effects etc. Or one from LEC for making a little Star Wars film...

And Mr. Person... I have no MotS but a demo so there won't be any chance of that happening.

O yes... I forgot to mention that as I can't make sounds or textures of my own, I tend to steal from places. Hope you don't mind too much that in a SP episode, 2 levels have a lot of JO textures. If you want, I could reduce their quality even more, if it's not enough with a reduced color depth to 8-bits. I could... Eh... Double their pixel size! or perhaps shrink them to 32x32. Or I could ask you to make me the best textures! I will credit you, but I won't pay you. Sorry.

/Edward


[This message has been edited by Edward (edited January 11, 2004).]

The reason that Mel Brooks has money after Spaceballs is that it is legal to parody something.

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"Church, women are like Voltron, the more you can hook up, the better it gets!"
-Tucker
Red vs Blue

Ph34r t3h Cute Ones

The copyright laws have specific provisions that allow for parody.

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Have Lightsaber Will Travel JK Editing tips, troubleshooting information, resources and more.
www.swgalaxies.net For all your Star Wars Galaxies needs
The Massassi A SW Galaxies Player Association

First, Massassi needs to take a stand on it because we could come under legal scrutiny from LEC if we did not. Don't say that they never even come here because you would be suprised. When JO was in production there were people from Raven in this forum asking for our input.

Second, while its unlikely that LEC would take action against any level editors, there is some bad history there. You probably haven't been around long enough to remember when the Code Alliance was at darkjedi.com - they abandoned it when Lucasarts started filing lawsuites to get a lot of the star wars related web site names under their control. Also, before JO was announced Lucas sent his lawyers after a group of guys that were doing a star wars mod for another game (may have been Quake III if I remember right). That was probably because they were making plans to create JO, but it lets you know that they are paying attention.

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Have Lightsaber Will Travel JK Editing tips, troubleshooting information, resources and more.
www.swgalaxies.net For all your Star Wars Galaxies needs
The Massassi A SW Galaxies Player Association

Hm... What if I don't make replicas of the game, and just take something from the left, something from the right, put/mix them together in any old way, and have no copies of any original stories or layouts made by LEC. ... .... I don't suppose "May the Force be with you" has a copyright law on it.
Anyway, as I said. As I'm pretty bad on making things of my own (wheather it is sounds, textures, storylines) I tend to steal a few things from places, even if it's from Star Wars, Star Trek, Star Craft, Unreal, Far Gate, etc. Oh, and by the way... The lightning sounds in my latest mod FireWorks v1, has JO force-lightning sounds. Now, I know you wouldn't take that away since I got best points on that, now can you... You'd just uppset the public. Oh and besides... I doubt anyone will be using the weapon since it's so dangerous for both player and Game (player can get killed, and if it gets too much, the game will crash).

So, if in any movie or game or level I've made, and you see something you recognize, you can always say that I am so unoriginal. The only thing that might be original is my face, my moves, my language, my catchfrases, etc, etc, etc...

/Edward

Uh, yes we CAN, and we HAVE removed levels/mods due to illegal material. Usually it is because the level poster hadn't noticed the illegal material. But that doesn't make it right. If you can't make your own stuff, then don't do anything. Breaking the law is breaking the law, no matter how 'little' of it you use. (And I wouldn't be surprised if your mod IS taken down, because of the comment you made about the content in it.)

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.hack//SIGN - The World - Just Believe

(Yes, This is Cool Matty)

All Massassi would have to do is put a disclaimer that the authors submitting levels to be posted assume all responsibility for the content within their mods.

You'd be surprised how long I've been around these sites. Since DF was the latest greatest game. You'll find me credited in the creation of Condition Red.

I take the copyright issue seriously. I just stand behind my last post. I doubt LEC would have issue with a DF sound being used in a JO mod. I'm sure that they might have issue with a DF texture being used in a Duke 3D mod. Common sense applies, I think, and as long as someone is being faithful to LEC and SW I would think that LEC would be happy to indulge the creative use of their property.

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former TACC outcast

...tell that to Napster.

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it || The Link of the Dead

Reguardless, a great many files on Massassi violate copyrights. Why doesn't the staff do anything? Because they don't care. Especially if the file is a hit like the Ladder, it would have been stupid to have not allowed it, especially with Massassi being at the bottom of peoples' file places list.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

Because they don't know. They don't have the time to go play every level submitted. Email then and alert them about illegal material in a level and it well bi inspected/removed.


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Have Lightsaber Will Travel JK Editing tips, troubleshooting information, resources and more.
www.swgalaxies.net For all your Star Wars Galaxies needs
The Massassi A SW Galaxies Player Association

Take the Yoda's House level for example. Yea, it got posted. Because we didn't notice the material that was in it. It didn't stay up for long though.

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.hack//SIGN - The World - Just Believe

(Yes, This is Cool Matty)

Kazaa and the like seem to be doing fine. Anyway, in the unlikely event that Massassi did become targetted then it could take appropriate action.


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former TACC outcast

My point is that, legally speaking, a disclaimer saying, "We're not responsible for the stuff that's on our website," won't do diddly-squat.

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it || The Link of the Dead

Kazaa also isnt run in the US, making it a lot hard to bring cases against it.

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You underestimate the power of the Dark Side...

DSettahr's Homepage

It would give Massassi the latitude to take a cooperative stance with LEC if necessary.

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former TACC outcast

Or we could just cooperate in the first place and not allow levels with illegal content.

In other words, we should do the right thing. *Insert gasp of shock and amazement here*

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Have Lightsaber Will Travel JK Editing tips, troubleshooting information, resources and more.
www.swgalaxies.net For all your Star Wars Galaxies needs
The Massassi A SW Galaxies Player Association

I'm looking through the 2nd "Yoda's House" now, episode.jk, 3 cogs, a jkl and a cogstrings.uni

The only thing that could have been ripped would be the cogs. Two appear to be LEC, one is downloaded straight from massassi, seeing as it's the top one in the MP cog section. Although Morpheus is credited in the readme.

So no, not stealing material for the 2nd version at any rate. Possibly something to do with the massive number of negative comments interspersed with people laughing their heads off.

Ok... If I can't make things of my own, then... I guess, I'll just slip slowly away from t h i s p l a c e...
*Slowly considering unregistering, deleting all editors, wishing he hadn't heard of editors or how to transfer from one game to another, together with all secrets of fading and any other secrets he may hold, and then write a book to link me away from this place and just lie in the sunset and rot...

I denied your level because it had copywrite material in it. I thought "your mod sounds cool" so I checked it out, and lo and behold, it was the same as the JK one. In my opinion, I think LEC should release all copyrights on JK and allow the public to have it, but since they are not going to do that any time soon, I am going to do the legal thing to do, and not post your level.

Emon: It's not because we don't care, it's because we don't know!

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GhostOfYoda - General doer of stuff.

Not everything on JK and JO is copyrighted to LEC. Lucasfilm Ltd. own the copyrights to a lot of the content (namely the music but also everything that has a "star wars" feel to it, because that is covered under the intelectual property portion of their copyrights). If your making the level in the spirit of "Fandom" (and what other reason would you be making it for), then you can pretty much use anything you want. If you take it from another LEC game, cite in the "read me" file where you got it from. Fan Films do this all the time and are very much supported by George Lucas:

http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/spotlight/collections/starwars/

Two important things to include in the "read me" or "credits" or whatever:
1) That your level is in the spirt of Fandom.
2) That you cite where you got the stuff from and mention the copyrights on them and that all rights are reserved. (IE, if you take something from JK and put it in JO, then your "read me" file should include the name of the file and this line "(c)1997 Lucasfilm Ltd. and LucasArts Entertainment Company. All Rights Reserved.")

Note: you can ONLY do this between Star Wars games.

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"At last, we have come to find the truth to our souls. Though, the truth is not what we expected. I now fear my own soul."

Except for the fact that you can't port MotS to JK as it wouldn't work. The JK engine doesn't support Colored Lighting and it also doesn't support a number of Cog verbs.



Following your initial line of reasoning, this would be irrelevant as they are still recreating the game on another engine, thus would still be just as illigal...following your line of reasoning, that is.



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"At last, we have come to find the truth to our souls. Though, the truth is not what we expected. I now fear my own soul."

Regardless, you could take all the textures, models, music, etc and make MotS for JK, except for the lighting

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

That can all be converted if need be. JED allows you to easily go from MOTS to JK. All you need to do is open the MOTS file, click on the MOTS button to change it to JK, and save it again. It'll loose all colored lighting (I think the JK engine just ignores it, I believe), but it'll still go. As for cogs, many of the verbs have roundabout ways of handling them in JK. Take the cinematics in JK. In MOTS its much easier, but it can still be done in JK. And there is plenty of other things from MOTS that can be taken over. Sound bytes, textures, etc.

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.hack//SIGN - The World - Just Believe

(Yes, This is Cool Matty)

What if I take from JO, to JK, and reduce the quallity to horrible? <:)

[This message has been edited by Edward (edited January 20, 2004).]

Wouldn't that be against the rules, since it'd be altering LEC property?

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I carry the heavy burden of immortality. This curse forces me to watch as my friends, family and all others age and die, while I stay exactly the same...


[This message has been edited by Thunderer (edited January 20, 2004).]

It would probably be a violation of the EULA as well.

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Have Lightsaber Will Travel JK Editing tips, troubleshooting information, resources and more.
www.swgalaxies.net For all your Star Wars Galaxies needs
The Massassi A SW Galaxies Player Association

what was in it. i have a copy of the second version. should i deleate it.

/me goes and extracts it from the gob anyway out of curiosity.


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your curiosity will get the better of YOU one day.
Jon`C:Irony is spelling 'quality' poorly.
Spork:Well I think 'Irony is spelling grammar poorly'
Snail racing: (500 posts per line)-@%

all i saw was the jkl, the cogstrings, and three cogs.

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your curiosity will get the better of YOU one day.
Jon`C:Irony is spelling 'quality' poorly.
Spork:Well I think 'Irony is spelling grammar poorly'
Snail racing: (500 posts per line)-@%