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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Chemical weapons in Iraq. (or so it would seem)
123
Chemical weapons in Iraq. (or so it would seem)
2004-01-10, 9:26 AM #1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3386357.stm
A desperate disease requires a dangerous remedy.

A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.

art
2004-01-10, 9:28 AM #2
I never knew there were Danish troops in Iraq [http://forums.massassi.net/html/confused.gif]

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2004-01-10, 9:35 AM #3
heh... WoMD from the Gulf War and I didn't know there was a Danish Army O_o


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2004-01-10, 9:38 AM #4
Bout bloody time.

Buried ten years ago - but he told the UN they were destroyed. Suggests to me he intended to keep them.

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Frightening the very small and very old since 1952.
Frightening the very small and very old since 1952.
2004-01-10, 9:41 AM #5
Well, if they are there and they actually are chemical weapons . . .

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.
Pissed Off?
2004-01-10, 10:19 AM #6
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The 36 120mm mortar rounds appeared to have been buried for at least 10 years, the army said.

All showed traces of blister gases, the army said, a group of chemical compounds which include mustard gas.

US officials confirmed the apparent find and said the weapons were probably left over from the 1980-88 war on Iran. </font>

not exactly damning...

haha, I know one non-TACC-re-registering individual who's going to be reading this. We not good enough for you eh Steve?
2004-01-10, 11:53 AM #7
What is that scratched out on each one...? "Made in the USA?"

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BV's rendition of Titanic: Let's have sex. I won't let go. I don't need this stone.
The End.
~ Wolfy
That painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me.
2004-01-10, 12:18 PM #8
...Yes, that 'SR' after the 'US' *does* look an awful lot like an 'A'.
A desperate disease requires a dangerous remedy.

A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.

art
2004-01-10, 12:26 PM #9
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by GHORG:
Quote:
haha, I know one non-TACC-re-registering individual who's going to be reading this. We not good enough for you eh Steve?
</font>


I don't really have anything to say on TACC. Plus, Massassi offers me abit of annonominity that I wouldn't have on TACC.


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former TACC outcast
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2004-01-10, 2:18 PM #10
Danish food is a chemical weapon! [http://forums.massassi.net/html/eek.gif]
2004-01-10, 2:46 PM #11
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sine Nomen:
...Yes, that 'SR' after the 'US' *does* look an awful lot like an 'A'.</font>


You rule

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2004-01-10, 3:24 PM #12
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The 36 120mm shells appear to have been buried for at least 10 years, the Danes said. </font>


This doesn't exactly support the ol' "destruction of the world within 30 minutes" theory. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif]

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2004-01-10, 5:56 PM #13
I agree with mscbuck.
2004-01-10, 7:50 PM #14
Yeah. The ones we found probably do say USSR on them. Why? Because the ones that say USA were dropped on the Kurds already...

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2004-01-10, 9:07 PM #15
You lot can keep saying that, and it can keep not being true.
A desperate disease requires a dangerous remedy.

A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.

art
2004-01-10, 9:13 PM #16
http://fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/program.htm
A desperate disease requires a dangerous remedy.

A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.

art
2004-01-11, 4:40 AM #17
And now, from the same government that gave you Iran-Contra, I bring you, Rumsfeld & Saddam, best of pals.
[http://www.geocities.com/bognorridge/crap/rumdam.txt]
This was back when Iraq had WMD and lots thereof. And they liked to use them.

While working for a "pharmaceutical" company G.D. Searle & Co, Rumsfeld was also Reagan's "Special Envoy for the Middle East" and a Member of the President's General Advisory Committee on Arms Control.

[This message has been edited by GHORG (edited January 11, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by GHORG (edited January 11, 2004).]
2004-01-11, 5:01 AM #18
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">You lot can keep saying that, and it can keep not being true.</font>

However it is true that the US stood idly by, maybe making a squak here and there, while these types of things went on. Only now for some reason do they actaully care. ?????
It is true that the US either directly or indirectly supplied Iraq with materials that they knew were being used for weapons.
I'm sure I don't have to post any links Sine because I'm sure you saw them as you looked for the links you posted. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif]

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To artificial life, all reality is virtual.
2004-01-11, 5:57 AM #19
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Vash:
Yeah. The ones we found probably do say USSR on them. Why? Because the ones that say USA were dropped on the Kurds already...

</font>



Actually, they'd say CCCP. SO... everyone's wrong. No cookies today.


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2004-01-11, 6:30 AM #20
I sense a little bit of hypocrisy from some of you. Okay, when we take military action you complain that diplomacy is the route that we should go but when you have evidence of diplomatic attempts in the past you try to twist them into things that aren't there. I suppose Reagan shaking Gorbachev's hand makes the Cold War fictitious and them out to be buddies. Now Iraq was/is the enemy of Iran who certainly was a bigger threat to us at the time. Seems pretty shrewd that Iraq managed to do alot of our dirty work for us and, in the process, weakened both of them. Saddam, obviously, was going to wage war anyways. He always did.

Besides, there's a far more shrewd link between Chirac and Hussein that I don't hear anyone talking about.

I abhor the use of biological or chemical weapons. I believe that be an evil act. I condemn any act that the US may have used them but I do feel that there is at least one difference. The US is a country that comes to its senses. Anytime we have engaged in evil practices such as slavery, chemical weapons, internment, etc we have evolved. Countries like Iraq will never evolve on their own and are a threat to the rest of the world.

I've babbled long enough. I almost sound like I care about this stuff.

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former TACC outcast
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2004-01-11, 6:47 AM #21
Knowing how wonderful the Iraqi's are of keeping track of their weapons, they likely buried them and then forgot about them.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The coalition has yet to uncover proof that Iraq was still developing weapons at the time of the war last spring.</font>


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2004-01-11, 7:59 AM #22
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">However, US officials played down the find, saying the shells were probably left over from Saddam Hussein's 1980-88 war with Iran.</font>


If it isn't good enough for the US government, there's absolutely no way it's good enough for critics of the war.
2004-01-11, 8:02 AM #23
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sine Nomen:
...Yes, that 'SR' after the 'US' *does* look an awful lot like an 'A'.</font>


Hehe. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]

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BV's rendition of Titanic: Let's have sex. I won't let go. I don't need this stone.
The End.
~ Wolfy
That painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me.
2004-01-12, 4:11 AM #24
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Now Iraq was/is the enemy of Iran who certainly was a bigger threat to us at the time.</font>

Pity you were feeding Iran TOW's for hostages at the time eh?

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I abhor the use of biological or chemical weapons. I believe that be an evil act.</font>

What about us here in australia?
we deserve an invasion too damnit, we had 250,000 mustard & phosgene gas 25lb shells in 1944 if the Federation of American Scientists is anything to go by.

And we did guinea pig testing:
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Five Royal Australian Air Force crews attached to USAAF Fifth Air Force flew B-24 Liberators from Charters Towers to Brook Island, each carrying 60 gas bombs. The flight crews had been advised that 50 volunteers from US military prisons were used as guinea pigs for the mission. They had been promised freedom if they would occupy underground tunnels during the bombing mission.</font>


They last found a CW stockpile in aus in 1989, and found some we left in New Guinea in 1990.

We've earned this invasion I say.
2004-01-12, 6:45 AM #25
Wow. Do you know how to put anything into context?

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former TACC outcast
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2004-01-12, 7:37 AM #26
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Because the ones that say USA were dropped on the Kurds already...</font>


You mean the attack on Halajba in 1988, which was not proven to have been caused by Iraqi or Iranian weapons?

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Besides, there's a far more shrewd link between Chirac and Hussein that I don't hear anyone talking about.</font>


Source please.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I abhor the use of biological or chemical weapons.</font>


So do I. That doesn't prove that Iraq used them against its own people (see above).


-Fox
2004-01-12, 7:41 AM #27
Stratfor.com posted the article that detailed the long term relationship between the two.

I'm not sure why you quote me and refer to Iraq attacking it's own people. However, it does seem to be undisputed that Iraq has used bio/chem weapons.

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former TACC outcast
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2004-01-12, 7:50 AM #28
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I'm not sure why you quote me and refer to Iraq attacking it's own people. However, it does seem to be undisputed that Iraq has used bio/chem weapons.</font>


Undisputed how? According to Stephen C. Pelletiere, former CIA political analyst on Iraq, there's no way to conclude either way, whether Iraq or Iran was responsible for the massacre in Halabja.


-Fox
2004-01-12, 8:41 AM #29
So you're saying that that is the only time Iraq is ever alleged to have used bio/chem weapons?

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former TACC outcast
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2004-01-12, 8:55 AM #30
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">This much about the gassing at Halabja we undoubtedly know: it came about in the course of a battle between Iraqis and Iranians. Iraq used chemical weapons to try to kill Iranians who had seized the town, which is in northern Iraq not far from the Iranian border. The Kurdish civilians who died had the misfortune to be caught up in that exchange. But they were not Iraq's main target.</font>


I'm not commenting on the accuracy of the article but this quote from it seems to be clear that the author you're citing says Iraq used chemical weapons.

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former TACC outcast
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2004-01-12, 8:57 AM #31
Fox: France and Iraq

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/crisis_in_the_gulf/decision_makers_and_diplomacy/58568.stm

http://www.wadinet.de/news/iraq/nw1199_frenchconnection.htm

Germany had various business contracts withthe Iraqi government for years but they lost them when Sadaam was over thrown



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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.
Pissed Off?
2004-01-12, 10:40 AM #32
I remember hearing that Kofi Anan became a millionaire off the food for oil program. The one where the oil was paid for in cash, not food, and wound up going toward palaces.

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2004-01-13, 2:40 AM #33
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">So you're saying that that is the only time Iraq is ever alleged to have used bio/chem weapons?</font>


No, I'm saying there is no proof that it was Iraq that was responsible for the gas attack.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I'm not commenting on the accuracy of the article but this quote from it seems to be clear that the author you're citing says Iraq used chemical weapons.</font>


And it mentions that they did not use such weapons on their own people, which was cited as justification for invading Iraq last year.

Thanks for the links, Avenger, though I doubt the French had more military ties with Iraq than the US had.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I remember hearing that Kofi Anan became a millionaire off the food for oil program.</font>


Where did you hear that?


-Fox
2004-01-13, 3:02 AM #34
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Firefox:

No, I'm saying there is no proof that it was Iraq that was responsible for the gas attack.

</font>


You mean you just haven't seen that proof. Remember, a great deal of these things have to be approved before being cited. I'm sure the government has evidence unreleased. So in other words, there is no proof for the public. Of course, we can't say 100% that the govt. has any because that just isn't any of our business. But it is more so that they do have evidence than they do not.
2004-01-13, 3:25 AM #35
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Wow. Do you know how to put anything into context?</font>

My second comment was "tongue in cheek"

hehe you know I could fight dirtier in the sandbox than that if I wanted. Having comments like these as material to go on:

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Seems pretty shrewd that Iraq managed to do alot of our dirty work for us and, in the process, weakened both of them.</font>
2004-01-13, 5:57 AM #36
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Echoman:
I never knew there were Danish troops in Iraq [http://forums.massassi.net/html/confused.gif]

</font>


lol, I didnt either.. where are they from? Dana? wait, Denmark :P heh

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This is retarded, and I mean drooling at the mouth
2004-01-13, 6:23 AM #37
After all these people that didin't know there were Danes in Iraq, I have to make this comment.

I was watching Bill Mahr one night. Usually I like him. Then he comes out and says, 'We're asking for help in Iraq and the Danes send a sub. A sub! What good is that? We are asking for assistance not tourists.' (or something very close to that.
I was fuming. What an *******. I hope most Americans don't think this. Look at the GDP of Denmark. Then look at the military budget of the US for 2001. Yeah. That's right. You're lucky they sent the sub Bill.

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To artificial life, all reality is virtual.
2004-01-13, 6:31 AM #38
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, danish...

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2004-01-13, 8:06 AM #39
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">You mean you just haven't seen that proof. Remember, a great deal of these things have to be approved before being cited. I'm sure the government has evidence unreleased. </font>


Irrelevant. You can only speculate about such evidence, since, as you claim, it may be classified. On the other hand, I've cited a former CIA official who worked on Iraq policy, so he would have better knowledge as to what happened in Halabja.


-Fox
2004-01-13, 8:40 AM #40
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Firefox:
Irrelevant. You can only speculate about such evidence, since, as you claim, it may be classified. On the other hand, I've cited a former CIA official who worked on Iraq policy, so he would have better knowledge as to what happened in Halabja.


-Fox
</font>


http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/01fs/3935.htm

They seem to disagree.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Saddam's gassing of the Kurds in northern Iraq in 1988 was one of the largest chemical weapon attacks ever waged against a civilian population. Even today, Saddam continues to practice systematic torture, executions, forced displacement, and repression against the Iraqi people. The U.S. is currently seeking an indictment of senior regime officials for these atrocities.
</font>


I find your citation is irrelevant due partially to conflicting reports among higher-ups. But I'll let the two cancel out so no evidence is offered either way in which case, my statement remains and is not irrelevant.

[This message has been edited by Morfildor (edited January 13, 2004).]
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