http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/music/interviews/crosby.html




Discuss...

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I used to believe that we must fight the future, lest change come without our consent. I was wrong. The truth is that we must embrace the future, for only with change can we remain the same.
:wq

..care to put in some input before to demand a discussion?

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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

I dont need to, the article speaks for itself. Also, no matter what position I take, someone here will flame my pants off.

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I used to believe that we must fight the future, lest change come without our consent. I was wrong. The truth is that we must embrace the future, for only with change can we remain the same.
:wq

Your pants are full of holes, smell of badger vomit, and I just don't like them.

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

/lights GBK's pants on fire.

A good read (now I finally got around to it), especially interesting to hear that artists are excited about iTunes - I hadn't really thought much about it, but when you look at it from the point that the artists aren't getting shafted from every direction it does make sense.

The only thing iTunes needs to do is somehow top things like kazaa, soulsearch, BitTorrent and whatnot. Oh, and start working on this side of the pond too - because I'm interested.



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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

Thanks for the article I really liked it.

I agree. I think the courts should effectively shut down Kazaa and all those others. I used to download too, then I started focusing on my career as a musician and realized how much P2P hurt the artist. People like me, who download sampler songs and then buy the CD are the minority in downloaders and it's just bad.

Anyways, I'm hoping the big companies will fall. Like Crosby said, it's their fault for not changing with the times. The smaller indie labels are getting more and more of a following, most of it can be attributed to kids thinking it's cool to go against the system, but in the end, the indie labels are the ones that are passionate about good music.

My pants are brown and corduroyish.

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free mp3 ~Jump - Young America

new album Between the Dim and the Dark available now

I also watched most of Frontline last night . It was pretty good. They talked to people on both sides of the fence while they talked about the process Velvet Revolver and some other artist, don't remeber her name, went through to get their albums out.

David Crosby was great because he talked about how the music industry is manufacturing bands and forcing them down the public's throat and that the public is tired of it, hence poor record sales.

They also talked with the manager of Outkast who said pretty much the same thing. The quality of music today is hurting the industry more than anything else.

If it airs again, I encourage everyone to watch it.

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

This pretty much tells what's wrong these days with music. It's not run by people that know what music is, it's run by people that try to know what music is worth. Music is worth nothing in terms of cash, and everything in terms of emotionnal value. American Pop Music is basically Cashing in on pre-made emotions and values, in order to create very strict and conform trends, so the same lawyers can cash in on clothes sales and whatnot.



Yep, that's what the RIAA and other big labels like Century Media is. A clueless owner selling to another clueless owner. and so on. even if your music has the most insane virtuoso lines ever, chances are you'll be rejected. Why? because it's not trendy to be skillfull it seems, and also, because skillfull people usually have much more logic and knowledge about their work than eager angsty kids who play (Example) a few power chords while whining about something crawling in their skin or something like that. The fact that they're eager makes them easy to trick, and the clueless owners -want- people easy to trick, because then they can get rid of them whenever they want without worries of any consequences for them.



Yup, the modern music industry is a complete ****ing insult to stand-alone musicians and composers. You're in the posse or you're not. No questions asked.



Yup Yup, if you have a few zits or a little chubby but can (example) play insane arpeggios on a guitar that only a few guitar players have ever achieved, You'll never break through as much as pretty-boy next door who's as dumb as a brick.



I don't have anything to add to this statement, just felt like pointing it out because it's so ****ing true.



Exactly, they don't want the real thing, they want an artists that mimics the real thing, and that can be controlled at a whim.

There's so much more in this article I see so far, like iTunes probably killing the whole industry business model (like crosby best said it, "no packaging, no shipping, You upload, they download, you get a buck for the song, but if the song is very popular, well that's a nice little profit just for you.). One thing I hope is that iTunes might turn into a sort of mp3.com, where you pay a small fee in order to upload your material, or to open an account, and with that fee you have the possibility of distributing your music everywhere. hell, you could even give away a single or two for free? Why? because it would be your music, you wouldn't have to ask anyone permission to give away music, becuase you're the owner, and then the -real- reason why many artists make music would be a lot more obvious. gigs. How many of you would pay (example) 30$ to register at iTunes to have a chance to play in front of thousands of persons who came to see -you- and hear -your- music?

Of course, this idea would need lots and lots of tweaking and cleaning up, given the amount of crap that was on mp3.com and similar services, but it's still a very promising concept.

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I'm walking towards dead end, and I'm walking all alone. Two steps ago I passed insanity - Aleksi Laiho

I dont understand what you meant by paying $30 and thousands of people... explain.

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free mp3 ~Jump - Young America

new album Between the Dim and the Dark available now

I don't think charging 30$ is a good idea. Instead they should just take a small cut off every download, this way you don't have to worry about having to get a certain ammount of downloads to pay your bills.

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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

I was just giving an example, Flexor's idea's a much better one too, and would actually be effective.

And by the people, I mean getting enough fans to have gig requests, and we -all- know it really starts at the gigs.

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I'm walking towards dead end, and I'm walking all alone. Two steps ago I passed insanity - Aleksi Laiho

Well, it should start with the gigs

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard - there is the same amount of good music in the world than there was 20, 40, 100 years ago. Obviously most of the stuff on radio and TV is going to be "manufactured" (whatever that means), but anyone with a brain can find the music they like. Exactly how am I being force-fed this music?


Stuff like this pisses me off so much, because it doesn't reflect the reality of being a musician at all. Record companies only control bands if they choose to be controlled - if you're dreams are Hollywood, then those dreams are subject to the restrictions of Hollywood (lousy deals, always striving for that big break, etc.). But if you're truly serious about making a living off of your skill, then opportunities abound. That means a metal guitarist might have to play a country gig twice a month, or a symphonic trumpeter might have to play in a James Brown tribute band. You don't let go of your dreams, but you do stuff to make ends meet. Bottom line, the BS that goes into ever hour of MuchMusic or what-have-you should not make difference to a serious musician. I could care less if every single major label exploded tomorrow or if they set a new litigation record...


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Flibbledy-dibbledy! Nyaaaaaaaahhh!

-The Last True Evil

[This message has been edited by Tracer (edited May 28, 2004).]

"I could care less"

Don't make me kill you...

YES! exactly. so many "aspiring bands" these days expect to make the bucks right away, and also refuse to do anything than -their- band, and don't want to give the sacrifices needed for this living. As a musician, you -have- to expect living poor and eating peanut butter for a while when you start, if you have no other stable revenue source. But's it exactly as you said it, You can do whatever you want to let ends meet, As long as you don't let go of your dream and keep working on it in parrallel to your normal life, eventually you'll hit what you longed for.


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I'm walking towards dead end, and I'm walking all alone. Two steps ago I passed insanity - Aleksi Laiho

Umm, you know that's what iTunes does, right? They charge $.99 for every one download.

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Space Colony Inc. Phoenix Suburban City Dereliction

My drummer said he was watching Regis and Kelly and they had a young (like 13) punk band on that was just awful. The way he described them was like "Our first concert musicianship-wise, ugly, and really bad music."

Then Regis picked up the phone, and was like "Hey kids, Disney is on the phone and you just got a record contract!"

This is why some people dont understand that music is a hard lifestyle because you have things like this that perpetrate the idea that it's a get rich/get famous quick thing.

Our manager basically told us it would be fun, we'll have plenty of shows and people that love us, but we'll be sleeping on floors or in the van, and eating cheap potato chips as meals. Sounds awesome.

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free mp3 ~Jump - Young America

new album Between the Dim and the Dark available now

Schming, I think I know the band you're talking about. They're name is 14 Year Old Girls, and their lead singer is a, uh, 14 year old girl. And your friend is right... it sounded horrible.

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Space Colony Inc. Phoenix Suburban City Dereliction

Argh! It's even worse that it's true!!!!

*stabs Disney to death*

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free mp3 ~Jump - Young America

new album Between the Dim and the Dark available now

This is why ska is the new punk, IMO--basically, real ska (with a few exceptions) is made up of a lot of indie bands, bands that never see the light of day outside their town, or even outside of a small site on the internet. They all have a unique sound too, like Punk did at one time, and like Rock before it. Ska is where I've found the most real music, unfabricated, written by the band, straight off the soul music. It makes my pants tight.

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There is no signature

*Hugs Yoshi*

I love ska.

That is all.

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

<3

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There is no signature

I like music, I buy the music I like, some of the music I like gets into the charts.

Perhaps you're looking at this from the wrong perspective.

Maybe some people don't want challening music... they just want something that they can dance too and something that allows them to unwind without provoking too much thought or requiring musical knowledge to understand at its full depth. Most people who post on this forum seem to have a passion for music, and I expect most of them won't listen to mainstream pop for this reason.

This brings me to a point Tracer touched on about music being force fed... It seems to me that this rings true to the extent that most pop music fits into three or four genres, and that 99% of music in the charts will sound like this... the reason this being is that lots of people like it, and you'll probablys notice all the time that some of these manufactured 'force fed' bands will crop up and then die immidiately... sorry fellas, you just weren't catchy enough or you didn't sound cool.

You gotta have a shallow music market for people with only a shallow musical interest. Thats about all I should have said.

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Drugs & Stupidity, Tons of it.

Yeah, I get your point, and I brought that up in a discussion with friends about music a few weeks ago.

I noticed that the music you make, attracts the audience you usually want to reach. If you make complicated music, that requires a lot of time to assimilate, your fans are generally as passionate about music as you are, and the message flows really well. same thing for simpler bands, the message between fans and band flows well because that's the kind of music they want to hear.

That makes me think of another point. Yesterday night me and my band's vocal were having a chat with some local promoters here, talking about a gig with a band that came from quite far away. The tickets were 7$. 7$ is nothing, and, as my vocal put it, attracts "window shoppers". I'd rather sell tickets 10$, and have 150 persons who -really- want to see my band, and eventually buy records, than 200 persons at 7$ who will stay for a song or two and leave because they don't care. that's just a waste imho.

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Wake up, rise and shine, Gotta take another pint, Dig heads and watch out for the night.

I'm going to agree with what Sep was saying...

You can't expect everyone to like only the complex stuff... IMO, there's a lot of power in simplicity (System of a Down's Aerials for example). In regards to lead guitar solos, for example, I personally like the simple, laid back stuff (see Californication) a lot more than the "let's see how many notes we can hit in 1 second" (ie. Ice Cream Man by Van Halen) style. Not that I'm trying to say that John Frusciante (the Red Hot Chili Peppers' lead guitarist) is better than or even equal to Van Halen in skill, just that I like the simplicity... I think there's something to be said of a musician who can rip it up when necessary, but will opt to go the more simple route in most situations.

Anyway, I think it boils down to what the average person wants... The record labels don't look at the quality or complexity of the music. They look at whether or not it will sell, because like it or not, they're not in the business to further the cause of music. They're in the business to make money, and they do a darn good job at that. You really have to see where they're coming from before you start condemning them.

This whole thing reminds me of Microsoft. Bill Gates gets crap all the time about monopolizing the market, and beating out competition before they can even get started, and how that's slowing the industry advancement, but in reality, Bill Gates is doing an incredible job. You just have to realize that he runs his business in a practical, pragmatic way in order to make lots of money. That money can then be put back into the community (donations to schools, etc.), which Microsoft does do to further not the advancement of technology, but the availibility of it. Any of you who have seen the movie Antitrust (and I assume most of you have) will know what I'm talking about here.

The music industry does the same thing.

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Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin
http://www.writings-emag.net The next big thing since individually wrapped cheese slices (coming soon).