Update: More images below. Plus download the maliciousfiles (jed files)




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Working hard to bring you a mission statement and profile signature in the new year.

[This message has been edited by Simblimke (edited August 10, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Simblimke (edited August 11, 2004).]

Didn't you just start a topic on this?

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Snail racing: (500 posts per line)

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The Massassi JO/JA Single Player contest info (or something of this matter. Just smile.)

I think he's trying to show that that shadow is real.

/Edward

How is it possible? That could be just a texture with a shadow painted on it, with the obelisk placed on it... [/evil jerk]

i dunno what you are talking about.

The shadow is definately not a result of the dynamic lighting. Maybe the static lighting, but definately not the dynamic stuff.

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Do you have stairs in your house?

Err, couldn't he just make a negative extralight value on the textures, then carve out the part that he wants to be darker? Sure, it is a pain and increases surface and verticies, but it would work.

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"The future is not determined by a throw of the dice, but is determined by the conscious decisions of you and me."
I am addicted to ellipses!!! AHHH!!! ...
Make Sorrowind Worthwhile... join it! http://sorrowind.net

Naaa... it's not static or neg-surface lighting... cuz that terrain is definitly a 3do... of course you can make a similar effect by making the shadow itself a 3do, and have it set just slightly above the terrain 3do. It would be cake to make a shadow 3do from the original terrain 3do... just cleave away the parts that aren't shadow, retexture it black, and set it as translucent. I hope that's how you did it, cuz you could improve on that effect by having the shadow fade away at the end of the shadow with the classic glow technique. That would look even more impressive... I doubt you did tho, cuz if that shadow is a 3do, then it would have sharp edges... unlike your nice smooth ones.... hmmmm...

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...how easy life would be... if only it came with a consistancy checker.
Fabricator of Neurotic for MLP4

I'm sorry but that ground is not a 3do.

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Do you have stairs in your house?

Wasn't this your faked JED shot?!

If you say so, but it looks 100% 3do to me. If it were archi, the light density of the outer edges of the terrain would be just as dark as the walls they touch, since they'd share vertices. You can tell the vertices of the walls don't match up with those of the terrain simply beause of the lighting. Dead give away that it is a 3do.

Not to mention, those textures are perfectly aligned. It's got Hellcat's terrain prog and ForceRemap written all over it with a really big Sharpie.

Don't get me wrong, I still don't know exactly how he did the shadow... but I know Simblimke is really getting a kick outta seeing us all scratch our heads.

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...how easy life would be... if only it came with a consistancy checker.
Fabricator of Neurotic for MLP4

Erm, as far as I know, you can do extra light on 3do surfaces also...

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"The future is not determined by a throw of the dice, but is determined by the conscious decisions of you and me."
I am addicted to ellipses!!! AHHH!!! ...
Make Sorrowind Worthwhile... join it! http://sorrowind.net

I was going to wait to unveil the secret behind this technique until I had a nicer level to show it off. Then I realized that it would be disappointing not to be able to demonstrate the idea if I couldn't put in enough hours to actually finish a level. Instant gratification won out. It's late so I'll explain how I did it tommorow.

Halucid seems to have had the closest guess.

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Working hard to bring you a mission statement and profile signature in the new year.

Yay!

True Matty... but I've never tried negative surface lighting on 3do's before. I suppose I'm just sceptical, that's all. Besides, if it were was surface lighting, the edges of the shadow wouldn't be as smooth as the screenshots insist.

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...how easy life would be... if only it came with a consistancy checker.
Fabricator of Neurotic for MLP4

[This message has been edited by halucid (edited August 10, 2004).]

Guys, wow. He's showing off his dynamic lighting for JK and you squabble like a big family over whther or not the ground is a 3do. Sheesh.

Haha.. that's only cuz we wanna figure it out, Zell.

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...how easy life would be... if only it came with a consistancy checker.
Fabricator of Neurotic for MLP4

I think this is a JK mod for JA.

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deviantART gallery.

He has the JK source code and remade some areas of the engine to better suit his needs.

I'm so talking out of my *** here..

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We had a faked JED screens page with an image that looked startlingly similar to that.



Still cool.

Good god, it's not dynamic. He's showing off the archi of the floor, if anything.

JediKirby

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jEDIkIRBY - Putting the Romance back into Necromancer.
Proud Leader of the Minnessassian Council

Live on, Adam.

If it were a 3do it'd have to be dynamically lit for there to be any shading at all on the terrain (unless that's actually matted in), which it clearly isn't because there is no shading on the player or the weapon.

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Do you have stairs in your house?

Bah, of course it's got dynamic lighting. Don't forget, you can adjust the intensity of dynamic light very easily... which would explain the lack of smooth shading on the player if the intensity is low. He may also have some static lighting in the sector as well, but it doesn't matter... ethier way, the effect isn't caused by static or dynamic light.... so it's irrelivant.

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...how easy life would be... if only it came with a consistancy checker.
Fabricator of Neurotic for MLP4

[This message has been edited by halucid (edited August 11, 2004).]

It's not irrelevant. If it's archi, it could very well be static lighting.

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Do you have stairs in your house?

[This message has been edited by Correction (edited August 11, 2004).]

Vertice or dynamic lighting couldn't do this. If you wanted to use cleaving to cast a "shadow" on a mid density terrain mesh with an object like this girder, the resulting mesh would have hundreds more polygons.




Basically, the shadow isn't done with lighting, and therefore it was correct for me to refer to it as "faked." I admit I deliberately misled people into thinking I had done post-production image editing however, and request that the threads containing the offending images be closed

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Working hard to bring you a mission statement and profile signature in the new year.

[This message has been edited by Simblimke (edited August 11, 2004).]

How the heck did you do that? Is it just textured on or a translucent 3do over the surface? How about making the player have a shadow?

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I am _ Ace_1 _ , and I approve this message.

...so.... is that what you did er what?? It still looks more like the shadow is it's own separate mesh to me. A 3do with a cleaved shadow with THAT many polies looks as tho it might even crash JK.


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...how easy life would be... if only it came with a consistancy checker.
Fabricator of Neurotic for MLP4

Once I had the Idea to do fully dynamic shadows by shooting many "dark spots" in every direction from the light source that only collide with other objects once they have already passed through something already, but the thing limit throws that out the window.

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I am _ Ace_1 _ , and I approve this message.

I'm really too lazy to explain...why don't you just take my jed files and figure it out yourselves?!

Being able to compile the level and play it yourself should put to rest any speculation over whether it's fake. It will also reveal the unfortunate limitations of this method. Stupid vertice fighting puts a limit on the distance from which the effect can be viewed. If someone manages to solve the problem, hopefully they'll post the info here. This is one of the ways I think editing could improve...by sharing knowledge more freely.

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Working hard to bring you a mission statement and profile signature in the new year.

[This message has been edited by Simblimke (edited August 11, 2004).]

*opens level in JK* ...
wow thats pretty nice...

*opens jed files* ...
BAH! it's a translucent 3do with a texture on it.

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I am _ Ace_1 _ , and I approve this message.

Yeah, what'd you think? I somehow tricked jk into doing ray-traced shadows? (apologies if you did think that)

I don't think anyone's released a level with area-type shadows baked on to textures, but it has basically always been possible. (of course, you'd have to be crazy to try it without using some kind of 3rd party software to render the textures)Forceremap basically extends the range of architecture the technique can be used on to include curved surfaces.

The tranlucency isn't absolutely necessary, but it does give the appearance of greater detail because the base texture can be tiled.

Try different base textures on the solid rendered 3do and see what happens. Also re-calculate the light at different levels (it's currently at 5). Three factors can change the effect. The colors of the two textures partially determine what the surface will look like but the lighting itself has the most visible effect. Generally, the more light, the more the bottom surface is visible. If the vertice fighting problem could be solved, it would be worth taking pains to get the best result... Notice how in the screenshot the warmer color from the base surface shows through more where the blaster-bolts hit. This could be exploited to create an effect very much like localized colored lighting.

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Working hard to bring you a mission statement and profile signature in the new year.


[This message has been edited by Simblimke (edited August 11, 2004).]

Translucent 3dos like that, especially on a large scale, would end up causing just as much framerate drop as cleaving it out. Not to mention, the whole transparent 3do bug, where 2 translucent 3dos makes it all transparent.

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"The future is not determined by a throw of the dice, but is determined by the conscious decisions of you and me."
I am addicted to ellipses!!! AHHH!!! ...
Make Sorrowind Worthwhile... join it! http://sorrowind.net

Jedi Knight uses a ray tracing style of lighting, which makes it virtually impossible to make dynamic lighting. If we could get permission from LEC to make changes to the engine, I bet after a couple of years at a Massassi pace we could add shader support, bump-mapping, specular effects, geo-mod, and any number of cool things.

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My signature puts the 'hat' in 'phat'.

Play the level and look at the jed file first. The latest two pictures have no more polygons than the first one even though the shadow from the girder structure is obviously many times more complex. I could place 10 times as many shadows on the surface and not increase the framerate. Cleaving on a flat surface is one thing, but cleaving a shape onto a curved surface would create hundreds of extra polygons around the outline.


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Working hard to bring you a mission statement and profile signature in the new year.

[This message has been edited by Simblimke (edited August 12, 2004).]

Good, I was right. I can now sleep at night! It's been so looo-- zzZZZzzZZ....

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...how easy life would be... if only it came with a consistancy checker.
Fabricator of Neurotic for MLP4

[This message has been edited by halucid (edited August 12, 2004).]